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3D Shutter DLP Glasses: REVIEWS? - Page 9

post #241 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenisG View Post

Have you tried tru3d.com?

The price was more per battery for a smaller quantity. I guess I'll try again by phone or maybe the web site was broken.
post #242 of 517
I've had some time to compare the Mitsuhishi glasses, Xpand X102's, and Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses side by side on my Mitsubishi WD-73837 (2009 model). I used directv content, downloaded movie trailers and PS3 games.

Let me make it clear that the worst picture quality clearly belongs to the Mitsubishi glasses, it's not even close. The blacks are lighter and cyan, some users may not notice it if they aren't viewing in a dark room or have nothing to compare them to but when compared side by side to DLP-Link glasses it is unmistakable. They also dim the picture more than the DLP-Link glasses and the colors are skewed to the blue side. The only positive I can think of is that they are much lighter and more comfortable than the other glasses and do not have the polarization rainbows. A 2010 Mitsubishi owner will likely have better results with these glasses as they can turn off the DLP-Link light flashes that cause the crushed blacks and cyan tint, I however have no firsthand experience with this.

The Xpands and Optomas both have fairly good 3D picture quality however the Optomas are IMHO the better choice for a few reasons. Both of these glasses eliminate the cyan tint of the blacks, the Optomas however have noticeably deeper blacks. The blacks are quite amazing actually with these glasses yet they do not dim the overall picture more than the Xpands. I also like the colors slightly better with the Optomas, the Xpands seem to have a very slight green skew when compared side by side, this is very subtle however and shouldn't be a concern. The Optomas also have use a standard battery as compared to the proprietary one in the Xpands. Both glasses are fairly bulky and heavy. It's kind of a tie when it comes to comfort as the shape of your head will likely determine what fits best.

Both of the DLP link glasses use the reverse mode while the Mitsubishi pair uses normal so they can't be used together. With both DLP link glasses I can see the polarization rainbows (looks like a purple/green streak in the upper corners of the TV). This is not present at all on the Mitsubishi glasses. These are mostly visible in whites and blues, such as a white backdrop or sky scene. They are virtually invisible at all other times. While this is a concern for me, I consider this to be much more tolerable than the problems presented by the Mitsubishi glasses. If the manufacturers of these glasses would rotate the polarization of the lenses about 20 degrees or so the rainbows would be completely gone. I have not gotten a chance to try and contact Xpand and Optoma about this but I will soon.

In my opinion an owner of a pre-2010 Mitsubishi DLP should get the Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses. They have the best picture quality and are the cheapest.
post #243 of 517
i have the 2010 mits 73838 and the 3d with the mits glasses is fantastic bright colors graat blacs and no rainbows
post #244 of 517
BCTERP - Thanks for your great review!
post #245 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcterp View Post

I've had some time to compare the Mitsuhishi glasses, Xpand X102's, and Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses side by side on my Mitsubishi WD-73837 (2009 model). I used directv content, downloaded movie trailers and PS3 games.

Let me make it clear that the worst picture quality clearly belongs to the Mitsubishi glasses, it's not even close. The blacks are lighter and cyan, some users may not notice it if they aren't viewing in a dark room or have nothing to compare them to but when compared side by side to DLP-Link glasses it is unmistakable. They also dim the picture more than the DLP-Link glasses and the colors are skewed to the blue side. The only positive I can think of is that they are much lighter and more comfortable than the other glasses and do not have the polarization rainbows. A 2010 Mitsubishi owner will likely have better results with these glasses as they can turn off the DLP-Link light flashes that cause the crushed blacks and cyan tint, I however have no firsthand experience with this.

The Xpands and Optomas both have fairly good 3D picture quality however the Optomas are IMHO the better choice for a few reasons. Both of these glasses eliminate the cyan tint of the blacks, the Optomas however have noticeably deeper blacks. The blacks are quite amazing actually with these glasses yet they do not dim the overall picture more than the Xpands. I also like the colors slightly better with the Optomas, the Xpands seem to have a very slight green skew when compared side by side, this is very subtle however and shouldn't be a concern. The Optomas also have use a standard battery as compared to the proprietary one in the Xpands. Both glasses are fairly bulky and heavy. It's kind of a tie when it comes to comfort as the shape of your head will likely determine what fits best.

Both of the DLP link glasses use the reverse mode while the Mitsubishi pair uses normal so they can't be used together. With both DLP link glasses I can see the polarization rainbows (looks like a purple/green streak in the upper corners of the TV). This is not present at all on the Mitsubishi glasses. These are mostly visible in whites and blues, such as a white backdrop or sky scene. They are virtually invisible at all other times. While this is a concern for me, I consider this to be much more tolerable than the problems presented by the Mitsubishi glasses. If the manufacturers of these glasses would rotate the polarization of the lenses about 20 degrees or so the rainbows would be completely gone. I have not gotten a chance to try and contact Xpand and Optoma about this but I will soon.

In my opinion an owner of a pre-2010 Mitsubishi DLP should get the Optoma BG-ZD101 glasses. They have the best picture quality and are the cheapest.

will the optoma work with a hlt5687s led 3d ready tv.thanks
post #246 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobby View Post

will the optoma work with a hlt5687s led 3d ready tv.thanks

Don't know, but this is a DLP thread.........
post #247 of 517
I was reading the user manual for Viewsonic's PGD-150 glasses and noticed that you can reverse the 3D mode. I assume this means that the sync order can be changed to work with IR glasses. The Optomas do not do this and I thought it was worth mentioning. Amazon finally shipped out a batch of these according to a post I just read. They look identical to the Optomas but it seems there is at least one difference.
post #248 of 517
Can you provide a link to the Viewsonic glasses user's manual?
post #249 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Can you provide a link to the Viewsonic glasses user's manual?

http://www.viewsonic.com/assets/070/15952.pdf

See page 5 for how to invert them.
post #250 of 517
Very interesing since they are apparetly not the same as the Optimas as previously reported.
post #251 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athlon646464 View Post

Don't know, but this is a DLP thread.........

that model is a 3d dlp
post #252 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobby View Post

that model is a 3d dlp

Whoops, my bad. I saw LED in his description, and well, screwed up. I apologize to the guy with the question.

In that case, the Optima's should work just fine.

See here for info from the Samsung web site: http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/...=153&EMAIL_ID=

Thank you for correcting me!
post #253 of 517
[quote=Athlon646464;19089716

See page 5 for how to invert them.[/QUOTE]


The Optoma's do this as well.
post #254 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerman56 View Post

The Optoma's do this as well.

Not the optomas I had. They had one sync order. Pushing power again switched to modes where both eyes synced to left only or to right only so only 2D. There was no way I know of to switch sync order for 3D. I asked optoma and they referred to changing the sync order in the projector/tv instead.
post #255 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerman56 View Post

The Optoma's do this as well.


How do you know? Do you have a pair, or is it in their manual as well (which I could not find online).

In either case, please tell us how it is done.

This would be great news!
post #256 of 517
I do have a pair, and I have them working in normal mode, as compared to the reverse mode. Now I am unable to get them to work again in reverse mode though.... It is very odd...
post #257 of 517
Yes the Optima will work in normal mode, however, you will be looking at the images crosseyed and they will therefore have noware near the 3D quality level that they have in reverse mode.
post #258 of 517
A couple of points on the X102.

The primary market for X102 is education with 3D DLP Link projectors. Sealed, washable glasses are a must, therefore the snug battery issue.

If you are not going to wash them in water to clean them and use a cloth instead, etc.; remove the o-ring. That makes it much much easier to replace.

You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.

The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.

Hope this helps.

Tom
post #259 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

So has anybody ordered batteries for the X102's from Xpand successfully? My first battery is dead after just a few hours (power off did not work correctly?), and when I try to order with Firefox or IE at their website, it complains about me not putting in a phone number that there is no field for. First the battery pricing is lame, then the order system is junk. Nice.

Call Rorey at 310-309-6705
post #260 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoody View Post

A couple of points on the X102.

The primary market for X102 is education with 3D DLP Link projectors. Sealed, washable glasses are a must, therefore the snug battery issue.

If you are not going to wash them in water to clean them and use a cloth instead, etc.; remove the o-ring. That makes it much much easier to replace.

You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.

The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Can you please provide an technical explanation of how an a IR signal from an emitter "corrupts" the white flash from being received by the DLP-Link glases?
Is is due to a design deficiency in the X102Glases. Will the same "corrution" occur with the X104 glases which I understood will be able to receive both types of signals concurently?
post #261 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoody View Post

A couple of points on the X102.

The primary market for X102 is education with 3D DLP Link projectors. Sealed, washable glasses are a must, therefore the snug battery issue.

If you are not going to wash them in water to clean them and use a cloth instead, etc.; remove the o-ring. That makes it much much easier to replace.

You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.

The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.

Hope this helps.

Tom

I have used the Mitsubishi IR glasses at the same time as a pair of X102 glasses without any problem. They sync opposite of each other so one pair must be worn upside down. I only did this to test picture quality as it is not feasible to wear glasses upside down. However there was never a problem with either pair losing sync when in use at the same time. I have recessed CFL lighting and it is impossible to have these lights on while using my DLP-Link glasses, there is non-stop flickering in the glasses as they can not keep sync. As soon as I turn off these lights the sync is perfectly stable.
post #262 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoody View Post

Call Rorey at 310-309-6705

I got it taken care of and got some batteries ordered. The shipping cost is a crime. I'm done with Xpand, I just ordered Optoma for the 2nd pair.

Now I'll have 2 Nvidia 3D Vision and 2 DLP Link, I hope I'm done for a while.
post #263 of 517
I received my first pair of Optoma DLP link glasses yesterday and tried them with Avatar on the XBox, full checkerboard output, viewed on a 73-737. They blank the DLP sync pulse and return the picture to it's normal black levels and nothing looks washed out when viewed through the glasses. I didn't notice any polarization bands but there weren't any really bright scenes either. The Mits has 3D mode in standard and the 3d effect looks great. I've only viewed this one game with this setup so other sources might be reversed, I still need the adapter for that. I was playing around with the button and cycling through the modes (alternating, left only, right only) on the glasses before viewing through them so I'm not sure If I changed something or if this is how they came.

Update: I've tried viewing a checkerboard video clip and that does require a reverse setting for the Optoma glasses. I guess I'll change the XBox settings to reverse so the Mits can stay in reverse mode for both games and video.



Quote:
Originally Posted by twoody View Post


You cannot have an IR source (nvidia/samsung) at the same time. The IR corrupts the TI white pulse sync detection. Typically CCFL or other normal light sources should not disrupt the signal but good idea to shut them off anyway. The TI detection process was designed to work in the classroom with lights on.

The X103 version (IR receiver) is intended for consumer market and is just being introduced.

Tom, thanks for joining in, we appreciate the insight. Will the X103 and X104 properly blank out the DLP link flash? This seems to be causing an issue for people trying to use IR synced glasses with DLP link televisions that do not have the ability to turn off DLP link. Also, will these glasses be able to reverse sync to match up with x102 and Mits glasses already in use?
post #264 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenisG View Post

Those went for some ridiculous amount of money.
I emailed XpanD and they do in fact make the nose pieces. I am now waiting to see about how I go about ordering some.
Oh, and they sent pic's of them.

Got a follow up.
Quote:


Robber nose pieces will shortly be available to be purchased on line.
Please check our site and order from there directly.
Kind regards,
post #265 of 517
I'm sold.

I have a Samsung HLT-6176s and a PS3. I'm ordering the optoma glasses right now. Obviously just a start, I'm going to rent the Avatar game and order the gefen and 3da-1 individually piece by piece. Have a friend that works at best buy to get the EDID.

There are so many places to get these things, but I'm going to Tigerdirect.com because I use them a lot. $89.99.

Thanx for all the reviews guys. I'll be posting my own review in a couple of days to keep the ball rolling.
post #266 of 517
Does anyone know if Optoma plans to be releasing another version of their glasses in the coming weeks/months ahead? So far, I've appreciated all the glowing reviews members have been sharing, but the only downside I'm reading is that they're a bit bulky/heavy. Does anyone know if there is a release date for new Optoma glasses that will be more mainstream and address these concers? If so, it would make sense for some of us to wait, but if these were recently released and we want to start enjoying 3d relatively soon, these may be our best best for the time being.
post #267 of 517
I've been using two pair of XpanD X102s for several weeks. Today I received two pair of Optoma ZD101s, one each from two separate vendors. I put on some 3D content, the Panasonic demo disk, to see how they compared. The Blu-Ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BDT350 and my display is a Samsung HL67A750 LED DLP. Both glasses sync the same and require the display to be set in the 3D reverse (Mode2) mode.

Performance wise, they are very close, too close to call. Both produce a fine, crosstalk free picture and I enjoy watching 3D content equally.

Without putting a meter on them, I subjectively suspect that the Optomas "might" be ever so slightly brighter than the XpanDs. The reason I think this is because the rainbow effect is a tad more noticeable with the Optomas. However, the viewing was accomplished in a brightly lit room and the human iris plays tricks when switching from one set of glasses to the other.

The rainbow effect disappears if the glasses are tilted 45 degrees sideways. It's the same with both brands. When I do this I notice that objects in the background tend to lose focus. The rainbow effect may or may not be more noticeable on the Samsung DLP display relative to a Mitsubishi. Since I'll never have the opportunity to view them both side by side I'll make no further comment except to say that the rainbow effect doesn't bother me at all. I know it's there, I see it, but then I forget about it and watch the content. Your experience may differ.

The XpanDs use proprietary batteries. The manufacturers web site states that replacements are available from them and authorized retailers. I checked several retailers sites and couldn't find any batteries for sale so at least for now it looks as if replacements can only be acquired from XpanD. They are expensive when shipping costs are included but have a long life - 120 hours advertised. Replacement is a PITA until you learn the proper technique. One thing makes changing them considerably easier. There is a rubber O ring used as a water seal and the friction it creates makes removing and installing a bit difficult. I'm not planning on running my glasses through the washing machine so removal of the O ring greatly reduced the effort required to screw and unscrew them.

The Optomas use two common CR2032 batteries and the usable viewing time is said to be 70 hours. Over time, total battery cost should be about the same between the XpanDs and the Optomas. However, the Optoma batteries can be found at your nearest hardware/pharmacy/gas station etc.

Comfort: You'd think the XpanDs at 2.5 ounces would be a little more comfortable than the Optomas at 2.9 but it doesn't make any difference. In fact, with the three interchangeable nose pieces that come with the Optomas I find them a little more to my liking.

The XpanDs turn themselves off automatically after a period of time when no DLP-Link signal is sensed. The Optomas will fool you. You can press the power button and lose the 3D effect but the glasses are still powered. You need to press and hold the power button for three or four seconds before the power is turned off - indicated by the room (as seen through the lenses) brightening up and staying that way. The manual states, "To turn off 3D Glasses Press the power button and hold until the LED switches off" I'll go with that but the positive way to see that the power is off is to look through the glasses and see it as it happens.

Shipping box/packing: The XpanDs come loose in a box with bubble wrap protecting the lenses. A battery is installed. There is also a spare battery, battery changing tool, and an instruction manual included. The Optomas come protected by form fitting foam including the three nose pieces in their own little slots as can be seen in the accompanying picture. The batteries are factory installed and there are no extras. There is also an instruction manual included but the on/off button information is less than clear. If you don't turn them off properly the 70 hour battery life will be used up in three days time.

I'll watch a little more 3D tonight in the dark and see if it makes any difference re: the above observations and opinions.

Buzz
LL
post #268 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Can you please provide an technical explanation of how an a IR signal from an emitter "corrupts" the white flash from being received by the DLP-Link glases?
Is is due to a design deficiency in the X102Glases. Will the same "corrution" occur with the X104 glases which I understood will be able to receive both types of signals concurently?


I can't disclose the details but I can discuss in general how it works.

The TI white flash detection algorithm looks for the white pulse (x us wide) to occur at a certain time in between the left and right fields. The left and right fields are separated by a ms or so, controlled by the TI DLP Link firmware. In addition there has to also be a certain amount of no video or signal below a given level on either side of the pulse set by a comparator threshold. Since the X102 photodetector sees all visible light and even IR up to 1100nm there can be stray sources of IR that may occur on either side of the white pulse that may or may not cause the algorithm to reject a lock on the pulse. Once the algorithm sees a clean pulse x number of times in a row then sync occurs. This corruption does not seem to occur with Mits & Sam TVs since I believe they make sure the protocols do not interfere, but that is a guess on my part. I have mostly focussed on the front projectors for the education market to make sure I understand the issues in that market.

The X103 is IR and support multiple TV protocols.
I can't speak to the X104 as yet other than what you see on the XpanD website.

Does that help?

Tom
post #269 of 517
Gotcha I think, Thank you for the explanation.
1.If the X102 glases not receive IR frequecies in addition to visual light a problem between DLP-link and IR signals would not occur.
2 As far as you know both the Mits and Samsung RP DLP TV insure that the protocols do not interfere with each other on their TVs.


So the issue when using DLP-Link glases and IR emitter glases concurently on the Mits and Samsung systems is that currently the both Mits and Samsung only allow you to set Normal or Reverse mode for both types of glases at the same time and therefore they can conflict depending on the "standard" mode used by the IR emitter and it's corresponding glases. So for example if you could reverse the Mits IR glases independently of the TV's own Normal/Reverse setting then there would be no conflict possibilities.
post #270 of 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

So the issue when using DLP-Link glases and IR emitter glases concurently on the Mits and Samsung systems is that currently the both Mits and Samsung only allow you to set Normal or Reverse mode for both types of glases at the same time and therefore they can conflict depending on the "standard" mode used by the IR emitter and it's corresponding glases. So for example if you could reverse the Mits IR glases independently of the TV's own Normal/Reverse setting then there would be no conflict possibilities.

walford, the "issue" is in your mind. People own one type of display or another and will not have a mixed bag of glasses by different manufacturers for their one and only 3D display.

Buzz
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