Originally Posted by ChrisBee
I have a (very) weird room. Thomas calls it very lossy. He's being polite.
Modesty prevents me from posting my IB's curves here but they are always visible on my IB blog. Where even more ammunition is available to damage me below the waterline. As I have no reputation to lose why should I care?
I also have absolutely no desire to return to an awful, ringing, oblong room downstairs after decades of listening across
various attics. Even as a child I had attic bedrooms. I can experiment and make a mess and nobody will ever know or care.
You have the same ripple at 12 Hz which I do but no house curve. You must be very young to put up with that response. Or listen at overall levels which will make your ears old well before your time.
When listening to music at lower levels 70-75dB(C) for many hours at a time I prefer a rising FR into the deep bass. It provides a far more realistic rendition of my own perceived reality
at live organ recitals. Masking of the deep bass by harmonics, when using a flat response, is inevitable IMO. The option of listening at truly realistic levels is just too tiring IME.
With increasing age one's hearing begins to roll off at both ends of the spectrum. One's life history also assaults the ear's response. Shooting, motor racing, head injuries, noisy working environments and live concerts can all permanently change one's hearing for the worse. I enjoyed them all.
I have been needlessly rude and must apologise for that. I shall leave soon enough, having stomped all over this thread with my muddy, rural boots. I do not enjoy posting here except for a bit of fun now a then. There are too many midges for my liking.
I began as a professional rock musician at 13 years old and progressed to football stadiums by age 18. I'm 57 this year. My hearing has held up amazingly well considering I grew up seeing Grand Funk, Deep Purple, EL&P, Led Zepp and many other bone-crushingly loud power trio bands, as well as 13 years of leaning into dual SVT 8X10 bass cabs on stage myself.
I was never into guns, truck pulls, top fuel dragsters, industrial environments (plenty of that in Pittsburgh where I grew up), all of which I think are far more damaging to hearing.
I hafta say I disagree with your statement that the top end and low end go with age. The midrange is the first to go, typically, which is why, if I had any brains, I'd be designing and building center channel speakers instead of subs.
I got burned many times by the sound board knob jockeys and in the studio with terrible handling of the bass guitar mix and that's most probably why I build subs and endlessly attempt to apply innovative tweaks that add a dB or 2 of clean output, or reduced distortions by a few % here and there, or reduce thermal compression by several dB, etc.
I've participated in many discussion regarding house curve, tilted response, ELC and the like. My firm belief is that, when playing recorded source of any kind, the ideal is to reproduce what's on the disc. I've been in the recording environment enough over the years to know that all of those phenomena are addressed in the mix.
There isn't any glimmer of a chance that a mix engineer will leave the low end flat and assume it will be compensated by the end user's house curve response. NOT A CHANCE. If anything, they may tend to bump the low end too much.
IOW, they have the ELC built into their hearing and do the house curve for you in the mix. All you need is a flat response and you have what they mixed.
Yes, there are many arguments about their possible use of EQ to flatten the monitors response, their average mix levels vs your playback level, etc. I remain unmoved by those arguments. The starting point should always be a flat response. Run it hot, run it cold, bump part of it, tilt it, if you will, but realize that those are distortions of a personal preference nature.
I bet FOH can add valuable input here. The term "House Curve" comes from manipulating the response of a live performance to compensate for the ELC in whatever "house" the concert is in.
If a recording is done of the live performance, the raw tracks are recorded and then those tracks are treated as if they were recorded any other way, in any other environment, and mixed until they sound good, which includes bumping the low end until it's perceived as being the correct level.
I've posted this comparison of the F'in Irene scene many times, but it's really a perfect example to make my point. One graph is directly off the players SW out jack, the other is with a mic at the LP of my subs:
Can anyone imagine the difference if I had a 'house curve' dialed into my response? Can you say, Mission Impossible? Using your house curve, the 6Hz tone would be required by the subs to be reproduced at approximately 0dBFS plus 50dB!
Using the ELC to dial in a HC, it would also need to be approximately 0dBFS + 50dB, or even higher.
So, let's play back at -20dBRL. That's still a +30dB bump at 6Hz. Not gonna happen. Not even if you're using the TRW.
Even if you could manage this scene at reference level plus house curve, the presentation would not even vaguely resemble the intended effect and every house on your block would be reduced to rubble.