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Samsung 2010 CCFL vs. "lesser" brand local dimming back-lit LED

post #1 of 24
6/15/10 at 6:38pm
Thread Starter 
Hi guys and girls, I'm in the market for a 55" TV for my basement (dark room). By default I was considering 55C630/650 which could probably be had for around $1300-$1400 at this point. I ruled out edge-lit Samsung models as they are more expensive and arguably have worse PQ than their CCFL counterparts. Now what I did not realize that there are some local dimming sets out there from LG, Vizio, etc. that are only slightly (200-300) more expensive than my default CCFL choice. I don't know much about what's out there for 2009/2010 in that space but I come across the LG LH90 and Vizio 551 in my searches, don't know if those are 09 or 10 models, perhaps there are others as well. My question is how do they compare overall to the "higher end" Samsung CCFLs?
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post #2 of 24
6/16/10 at 5:40am
The fully backlit LED with local dimming Vizio 551 and LG LH90 are going to give you much better black levels than the standard CCFL sets from Samsung.

Please read some reviews on-line on both sets.
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post #3 of 24
6/16/10 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

The fully backlit LED with local dimming Vizio 551 and LG LH90 are going to give you much better black levels than the standard CCFL sets from Samsung.

Please read some reviews on-line on both sets.

I have read quite a bit, just never really can find comparison between these two models. In fact I own a 46c630, but can't seem to find a side-by-side comparison with the LH90 for example. I understand that I'll get better blacks/higher contrast with the LH90, how about the other aspects that make up PQ?

The TV will be used mostly for FIOS/PS3/BLURAY
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post #4 of 24
6/16/10 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenGSR View Post

I have read quite a bit, just never really can find comparison between these two models. In fact I own a 46c630, but can't seem to find a side-by-side comparison with the LH90 for example. I understand that I'll get better blacks/higher contrast with the LH90, how about the other aspects that make up PQ?

The TV will be used mostly for FIOS/PS3/BLURAY

They will give better black but in the case of the vizio you will get inaccurate color and improper saturation of color according to reviews. Its not a videophile set.

The LG though is a good set. With excellent color. LG is not a lesser set. In fact its probably a better brand than the samsung. Imo Sammy has a perceived top class set due to excellent marketing and perception from the walls at sears and best buy being loaded with em.

Samsung today screams sylvania of yesteryear.
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post #5 of 24
6/16/10 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

They will give better black but in the case of the vizio you will get inaccurate color and improper saturation of color according to reviews. Its not a videophile set.

The LG though is a good set. With excellent color. LG is not a lesser set. In fact its probably a better brand than the samsung. Sammy has a perceived top class set due to excellent marketing and perception from the walls at sears and best buy being loaded with em.

Samsung today screams sylvania of yesteryear.

I don't agree with your last few statements about Samsung, but the LG LH90 is indeed a very fine TV and probably better than most (if not all) CCFL sets. I also agree that LG is a major player on the TV market and although I own two Samsungs that I dearly love, if I were on the market for a TV today, LG would certainly be on my short list.

By the way, my parents loved their old Sylvania TV with the halo-light.
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post #6 of 24
6/16/10 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

I don't agree with your last few statements about Samsung, but the LG LH90 is indeed a very fine TV and probably better than most (if not all) CCFL sets. I also agree that LG is a major player on the TV market and although I own two Samsungs that I dearly love, if I were on the market for a TV today, LG would certainly be on my short list.

By the way, my parents loved their old Sylvania TV with the halo-light.

Edited "imo" for clarity
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post #7 of 24
6/16/10 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

They will give better black but in the case of the vizio you will get inaccurate color and improper saturation of color according to reviews. Its not a videophile set.

The LG though is a good set. With excellent color. LG is not a lesser set. In fact its probably a better brand than the samsung. Imo Sammy has a perceived top class set due to excellent marketing and perception from the walls at sears and best buy being loaded with em.

Samsung today screams sylvania of yesteryear.

Quote from Cnet's review:

The good: Inexpensive for a local dimming LED-based LCD; can produce extremely deep black levels; less blooming than many local dimming models; relatively accurate color; solid dejudder processing; plenty of connectivity with five HDMI and one PC input; energy efficient.

The bad: Backlight fluctuates with program content; below-average shadow detail; fewer picture controls than some high-end HDTVs; ho-hum styling.

The bottom line: Sure, it has a few flaws, but nothing fatal prevents the local dimming, LED-backlit Vizio VF551XVT from exhibiting excellent LCD picture quality for the buck.
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post #8 of 24
6/16/10 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

Quote from Cnet's review:

The good: Inexpensive for a local dimming LED-based LCD; can produce extremely deep black levels; less blooming than many local dimming models; relatively accurate color; solid dejudder processing; plenty of connectivity with five HDMI and one PC input; energy efficient.

The bad: Backlight fluctuates with program content; below-average shadow detail; fewer picture controls than some high-end HDTVs; ho-hum styling.

The bottom line: Sure, it has a few flaws, but nothing fatal prevents the local dimming, LED-backlit Vizio VF551XVT from exhibiting excellent LCD picture quality for the buck.

funny, from "the bad" section you chose to leave out the first thing they mentioned. "Uneven grayscale leads to less accurate color" I believe in the actical they mention this and with sub par image controls it isnt correctable. So basically the set is innacurate.
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post #9 of 24
6/16/10 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

funny, from "the bad" section you chose to leave out the first thing they mentioned. "Uneven grayscale leads to less accurate color" I believe in the actical they mention this and with sub par image controls it isnt correctable. So basically the set is innacurate.

I left nothing out......this is copied directly from their website.

It's really not a bad set. I know a few people who own one and are very happy with it and what they paid.
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post #10 of 24
6/16/10 at 12:58pm
I tend to make analogies to the auto industry. If these were car mfgs. LG and Samsung would be Toyota or Honda level while Vizio would be Hyundai--less expensive and significantly better than given credit for but still not quite as highly regarded.
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post #11 of 24
6/16/10 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the information. Judging by your posts it seems that I should go for the 55LH90 for example over the CCFL 55C650. Is there anything that the Samsung would actually be better at than the LG?
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post #12 of 24
6/16/10 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe View Post

I left nothing out......this is copied directly from their website.

It's really not a bad set. I know a few people who own one and are very happy with it and what they paid.

What I posted was straight from the vizio review first thing stated in the bad section.

Its an ok set for the price but you get what you pay for. If you want local dim so cheap you lose in other aspects.
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post #13 of 24
6/16/10 at 2:01pm
If you have the C630 you know the performance that Samsung delivers. I think it is an excellent set for the money. And I disagree with serialmike, I think samsung makes some of the best LCD's on the market.

Black levels on these sets are very good mine calibrated out at .009ftL at 35ftL output, so black looks bezel black in all conditions except total darkness. A simple bias light can compensate for any advantage a local dimming set would provide in totally dark conditions and cost significantly less than $200-300.

Having said that, CNET did rate both the LG and Vizio in their top 5 best tv's in terms of picture quality.

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-hdtvs/?...ent;contentNav

Sounds like with the options you're looking at whichever way you go you can't go wrong.
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post #14 of 24
6/16/10 at 2:23pm
^Is that 0.009 the MLL? If so, that's not a very good indication of black level performance on a CCFL or edge-lit LED LCD because of the auto dimmer they have. Not a bad TV, but the LH90 is a much better set (IMHO).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenGSR View Post

Thanks for all the information. Judging by your posts it seems that I should go for the 55LH90 for example over the CCFL 55C650. Is there anything that the Samsung would actually be better at than the LG?

The Samsung's native contrast ratio on the panel will be higher, so in some instances (particularly brighter scenes), the Samsung may appear to be more punchy. In most cases, though, the LG will have better black level performance and will give you more pop in darker scenes. Not to mention it has lower input lag and much better viewing angles.
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post #15 of 24
6/16/10 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

What I posted was straight from the vizio review first thing stated in the bad section.

Its an ok set for the price but you get what you pay for. If you want local dim so cheap you lose in other aspects.

Copied from "product summary"...........if anyone wants to read the full review....just go there.

The 551 is one of the top 5 editor's sets at cnet..........
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post #16 of 24
6/16/10 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

^Is that 0.009 the MLL? If so, that's not a very good indication of black level performance on a CCFL or edge-lit LED LCD because of the auto dimmer they have. Not a bad TV, but the LH90 is a much better set (IMHO).

The Samsung's native contrast ratio on the panel will be higher, so in some instances (particularly brighter scenes), the Samsung may appear to be more punchy. In most cases, though, the LG will have better black level performance and will give you more pop in darker scenes. Not to mention it has lower input lag and much better viewing angles.

My 60ex500 runs depending on settings .010 ftl to .013ftl real world use not waiting on backlight dimmed out.
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post #17 of 24
6/16/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post
^Is that 0.009 the MLL? If so, that's not a very good indication of black level performance on a CCFL or edge-lit LED LCD because of the auto dimmer they have.
No auto-dimmer on the set (B630) that's not user defeatable (ie energy saver). The black level actually decreases (.008ftL) when measuring the ANSI checkerboard pattern. If you're skeptical I included my calibration file below although you'll need HCFR to read it.

The LG is a well reviewed set and seems like a great value at this time. I think it also has full set of calibration controls available in the user menu.

 

moviecustom75cs.zip 5.0537109375k . file
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post #18 of 24
6/16/10 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

They will give better black but in the case of the vizio you will get inaccurate color and improper saturation of color according to reviews. .

Maybe. Does that mean it's not D6500 kelvins?

Kelvin schmelvin. My backlit vizio looks great!
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post #19 of 24
6/16/10 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post


Its an ok set for the price but you get what you pay for. If you want local dim so cheap you lose in other aspects.


Are you kidding? Do you own one of these sets or even seen one?

The panels are same as LG xxLH90's. The posts out here giving advice are laughable. The Vizio xvt2 series got good reviews. Even the holy grail sets have SOMETHING negative in the reviews (b8500 blooming). No set is perfect but that cnet review is actually pretty good.

Now, I'm not selling Vizio's so don't care what you end up buying but to my eyes, backlit local dimming is visibly better pq.
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post #20 of 24
6/16/10 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

I tend to make analogies to the auto industry. If these were car mfgs. LG and Samsung would be Toyota or Honda level while Vizio would be Hyundai--less expensive and significantly better than given credit for but still not quite as highly regarded.

Agree entirely. Vizio has some work to do to build a better rep.

I drive a Benz but watch a Vizio. People tell me how awesome my car is and how crappy my TV is, usually not knowing much about either one.
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post #21 of 24
6/16/10 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

My 60ex500 runs depending on settings .010 ftl to .013ftl real world use not waiting on backlight dimmed out.

Sorry to hear you have to deal with those suck Sony blacks!
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post #22 of 24
6/17/10 at 5:35am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for everyone's opinion on this. I'll probably try and snag the LG if I can find it for a decent price.
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post #23 of 24
6/17/10 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenGSR View Post

Thanks for everyone's opinion on this. I'll probably try and snag the LG if I can find it for a decent price.

If you are a Costco member check there.....or on-line......90 day return and extra year warranty.
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post #24 of 24
6/17/10 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canonazo View Post

Sorry to hear you have to deal with those suck Sony blacks!

Your kidding right....009 and .010 are indistinguishable unless side by sided and even then I doubt most if any would get that right on a guess which was .009 or .010.

I think your kidding but..
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