'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 9

Yeah, the repeated "promise me" thing is a HUGE hint. If you actually take any time to wonder what that meant...

I never did, being so thoroughly turned off the trail by the Ashara Dayne misdirection. Wylla, HA! Obviously Jon's mom was Ashara! I'm so smart, not falling for Ned's ruse!

Also, there's no reason to assume that Howland Reed is dead, as far as I know.

Okay, I admit it, I'm not following this parentage topic. It's been years since I read GoT and I haven't followed it online at all until this show started. The theory is that Ned didn't father Jon and someone else did? Is this "someone else" supposed to be important enough that it allows Jon to become more than he is?

I'm planning on re-reading GoT after the series but I specifically avoided doing it before. I have the overall arc in my head but the details are gone, which is good as it's allowing me to enjoy the show without constantly comparing it to the book.

I was sort of dancing around it myself so people could look it up as they please or not. I'll put it in spoiler tags, even though we don't really know for sure if it is true:

I'm typing a sentence here first so people on a smart phone don't get a spoiler they don't want to see. Non-book readers peeking in here might want to skip out now!



As for Howland Reed - I just couldn't remember if he's mentioned as dead or alive, I'm rereading the books again before the next one comes out in July.

*mdr beat me to it!

- I was also thinking more about this after looking at the book again in anticipation of the TV show.

I don't want to keep going on this too much since we'll end up having a whole shadow thread in spoiler tags, even though it is a fun topic. So here's my last comment on the subject (probably ):

Thanks for that information. It's an interesting theory. If it ends of being true I can't wait to see how it unfolds in the books.

I just read Game of Thrones for the fourth or fifth time, and every time the repeated phrase of, "Promise me, Ned," would stick out. I always wondered promise what? I never really thought long on it though as I'd just keep reading.

The first post here hinting at something just made it all click. I got it even before you guys got explicit. Sooooo cool. It all fits very nicely. I started to think of other clues including this:



The promise me thing has bugged me for so long. The one post wondering if Howland Reed was still alive just made a light bulb go off over my head. Thanks, guys. Good stuff.

Very well done ep, only thing missing was the wolves joining in to save Bran. Such an awesome scene in the books, but fell a little short onscreen.

OK, so anyone hooking up HBO Go to their big screen for ep. 7?

I was bummed about no wolves. Also when it opened with Ned sleeping, I was so hoping they'd show the dream but no. You'd think they'd want to show at least one promise me, Ned. But can't complain much. The show is awesome.

The crowning scene is one of the most memorable in the books, and the build up to it in this episode was terrific, I thought. Both in the scene where Mormont catches Viserys trying to steal the eggs and at feast itself were fantastic, right up until Drogo pours the gold over his head. The looks Viserys gave Dany were perfect, great acting all around. The actual crowning seemed a bit anti-climatic though. I thought it would be, I don't know, more gruesome I guess. It was over in like 2 seconds. Not that I'm some kind sadist, but I felt there could've been more to it. It was a tough scene for the FX team, I'm sure, and drawing it out may have been too much, even for HBO. I'm not even sure what I would change about it, it just felt like it was lacking something at the very end there.

Overall, aside from a few things that felt rushed - necessary given how much plot they covered - I really liked this episode. Dany chowing on the horse heart, the fight between Bronn and Ser Vardis, the bonus non-book Needlework scene, Sansa's line "I don't want someone noble, I want Joffrey" and Arya's subsequent reaction, Ned being a total badass (albeit a foolish one) on the Iron Throne. So. Much. Awesomeness. I daresay it all together made up for the lack of direwolves in the wolfswood.

Tyron's "confession" had me in stitches. "When I close my eyes, I can still see her t!^s bouncing." I LOL'ed.

Who is the guy who was Tyron's champion?

Why did he defend the imp? Because the Lannisters are rich?

Yes, money. His name is Bronn. He's a sellsword (mercenary) that agreed to help escort Tyrion back when Cat arrested him at the Inn. After the group is beset by brigands in the previous episode, there are a few little bits of dialog that establish a growing rapport between Bronn and Tyrion. The book sets it up more clearly. Bronn realizes that everyone he's riding with (Tyrion excluded) is stuck up on honor and he's not likely to make much money for all his trouble. Unless he sides with Tyrion.

In the book, it is clear that Tyrion is taking a total gamble and isn't sure if Bronn is going to back him or not, but he saw the trial by champion as his only chance to get out of there alive, given little Lord Robin's desire to throw people out the moon door.

Maybe we'll get some exposition on this in the next episode. Or they might leave the viewer to infer that Tyrion secretly bought Bronn's sword back somewhere along the road. Which also works story-wise, and was set up by Tyrion's interactions with Mord (the sky cell jailer).

Tyrion's champ was Bronn, the sellsword who chatted with him on the way to the Eyrie. And since he's a sellsword, yes he did it for the money.

*mdr keeps beating me, stupid phone typing!

Couldn't get hbogo.com to signin on the HTPC, but watched episode 7 on the iPad app.

Note to self: never ask for a golden crown. Now THAT was a great payoff. He was no dragon. Fire can't kill a dragon.

That seems to be the one bad point in the series. They have pretty much limited or eliminated the direwolves from the show where they featured (or featured heavily) in the books.

I suspect that it was a huge PITA to shoot with the dogs, especially whenever they'd have to do anything more than walk quietly or sit near someone's feet. Hopefully this is something they can get worked out a little more for next season.

Anyone else think that Joffery is Cercei and Jamie's son? (sorry for the mis-spellings)

Did you stumble into the wrong thread for the show? From your question, and not already knowing the answer, I think you meant to speculate in the non-spoiler thread.

I guess it's time for me to semi-rant about the Starks. There's been more than one person commenting on the other thread (besides me) about how the Starks aren't very bright. It's becoming apparent in the series now, that they are reactive and impulsive which frequently leads to bad decisions. Obviously, Martin has stacked the deck against them and in the coming weeks and future novels, it doesn't get better. It's one of my gripes. Protagonists should have to overcome struggles through growth and ability. If not, then how do you respect them? The Starks are likeable, but are a step behind ruthless antagonists. A family needs to be strong and smart, as well as, ruthless to make their way in this world. The Starks might be strong.

One of the extra features on HBO Go is Martin talking about Ned's sense of honor and integrity.

Apparently, before this show takes place, Ned witnessed a bloodbath involving children, which is why he was so vehement against killing Dany.

It's also why he gives Cersei the warning that he knows about her cheating on Robert, so as to give her a chance to leave King's Landing, because he's afraid Robert would have butchered the kids. But that gives Cersei a chance to prepare and take power.

So it's not so much a lack of strategic thinking -- though he has no interest in taking more power -- so much as wanting to do the right thing, avoiding more carnage than necessary.

Doing the right thing for the right reasons is "fish out of water" in the realm of Westeros. There's no question Ned is a sympathetic and tragic character. He is written that way. Cersei Lannister recited the only rules in the Game of Thrones...you win or you die. Ned knows what to do, once news of Tyrion's arrest came to him, it was to get out of Dodge and bring his family back to Winterfell to regroup. He knows he's in a nest of vipers and standing on quicksand. He hesitates and bad things happen. Survival and family security trump loyalty and was paramount before any further moves. Instead, the Starks become pinballs to fate and everytime they get a chance to get off the board later on, they do the wrong thing at the right time.

Who said the Starks are the protagonists? I think one of the points of Martin's books is that, like Babylon 5 famously said, no one is what he appears. The "good" guys aren't always the brightest, do horrendous things on their own, and get their asses handed to them more than once. The "bad" guys, on the other hand, aren't completely bad (Tyrion for one, and Jaime goes through a quite remarkable transformation as the books progress). Though some of the good guys really are good, and some of the bad guys (and gals) really are bad, which only serves to muddy the water further.

I think Martin deliberately sets up the Starks as the typical "protagonists" only to completely undermine that idea in the story itself. Robb's disastrous decisions that lead to the Red Dinner, anyone?

I'd considered that. There's no question Martin intended characterization curveballs. This is me personally ranting. I like to see development. I like to see growth. I like it to be fairly linear. I like to be invested.

Whatever Martin is trying here, there's obvious skill. He can set and capture a scene. He can make interesting characters. He can also go on ad infintum in directions that may make sense to some long ago established outline, but fail to coalese (sp?)...at least not yet. I lost faith and with no one left standing that I really cared about, lost track. I'm not willing to go through the pain of rereading, after years, books that have faded and characters whose names all start blending together.

The series is entertaining...now...so I'll keep watching. Won't make me quit bitching though.

I think you see plenty of growth and development in Robb (to a point), Arya, Bran, and Jon Snow.

So glad I found this thread!

Bran, Jon and Arya are the Starks that matter, they are the ones who are the real protagonists (as far as the Starks are concerned). But I think what Martin wanted to do was have an entire cast of characters who would develope and have people care about. I remember absolutely hating Jaime after reading the first book and now he is one of my favorite characters. Ned was never really meant to evolve, he was too old a character, a view point into the past of Westero as it were. He is simply there to give the reader a sense of the way it was as opposed to the way it is now.

That being said I really am upset that the damn show showed us Theon Greyjoy's Kraken

- Give David Gemmell's books a try. IMO, he was one of the best heroic fantasy authors out there. Great characters and lots of exploration of black, white and shades of gray.

I've read quite a few of his novels, most of them excellent. He was a talented storyteller. The Rigante novels were probably his best, though I really liked Druss the Legend and Skilgallon the Damned.

Really starting to enjoy the Dany storyline. I bit the bullet and watched ep 7 on demand and it just keeps getting better. I agree that the Starks are making some questionable decisions, but it seems the author intends to portray this. Cat letting Tyrion escape legally, Ned choosing to not leave town after the kidnapping, even Robb letting Bran wander off alone - all poor decisions of a "high" family. Still an entertaining story and it's able to pull off switching back and forth between multiple story lines where other shows have failed at.

I'm still reading along with the story and hope they are able to add more direwolf scenes but would understand the limits if they chose not to.