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'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 27

post #781 of 1353
5/19/12 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

thanks Ron and gwsat. I guess what confused me was that Jamie is a knight. But he chose it over being his father's heir, didn't he?

He chose being a White Cloak over being Tywin's heir.
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post #782 of 1353
5/19/12 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post


He chose being a White Cloak over being Tywin's heir.

Jamie was a knight before he chose the cloak because before Sandor you had to be a knight to even be considered for the Kingsguard.
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post #783 of 1353
5/19/12 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

He chose being a White Cloak over being Tywin's heir.

King Aerys made him a whitecloak to deprive Tywin of his heir.
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post #784 of 1353
5/19/12 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post


King Aerys made him a whitecloak to deprive Tywin of his heir.

Jamie asked to be in the kingsguard so he could remain close to Cersei and avoid a marriage with Lysa Tully. Aerys agreed and made him a whitecloak despite his young age of 15 which was unheard of only because of the opportunity to dick over Tywin and rob him of his heir.
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post #785 of 1353
5/19/12 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Jamie asked to be in the kingsguard so he could remain close to Cersei and avoid a marriage with Lysa Tully. Aerys agreed and made him a whitecloak despite his young age of 15 which was unheard of only because of the opportunity to dick over Tywin and rob him of his heir.

Actually, a bit of both:

At the age of fifteen, Jaime was knighted on the battlefield by Ser Arthur Dayne during the campaign against the Kingswood Brotherhood[8], during which he saved Lord Crakehall from Big Belly Ben and crossed swords with the psychotic Smiling Knight. On his return to King's Landing he stopped to visit his sister, from whom he had been separated for years. It was there that Cersei told him that Lord Tywin intended to marry him to Lysa Tully, second daughter of Lord Hoster Tully of Riverrun. Cersei suggested that Jaime become a member of the Kingsguard instead, replacing the recently deceased Ser Harlan Grandison, to be close to her and free himself of the unwanted marriage to Lysa. After a night of passionate sex he gave his consent to Cersei's plan and within a month she has orchestrated it.[8]
Jaime Lannister portrayed by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in the HBO series.

A moon's turn later, Jaime was raised to the Kingsguard by Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower in a ceremony during the Tourney at Harrenhal, making him the youngest Knight to ever to be raised to the order.[1] That night, however, King Aerys soured the honor by sending him back to King's Landing to guard Queen Rhaella and Prince Viserys, depriving him of the chance to participate in Lord Whent's tourney. Jaime realized then that the King had only chosen him for the Kingsguard as a slight against Lord Tywin, of whom Aerys was insanely jealous, to rob him of his heir.[9] Furthermore, the plan failed to bring Jaime and Cersei closer together, as they had intended, when Lord Tywin, furious at the turn of events, resigned the Handship and returned with Cersei to Casterly Rock. Jaime remained at court, guarding the King.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jaime_Lannister
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post #786 of 1353
5/19/12 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post


Actually, a bit of both:

At the age of fifteen, Jaime was knighted on the battlefield by Ser Arthur Dayne during the campaign against the Kingswood Brotherhood[8], during which he saved Lord Crakehall from Big Belly Ben and crossed swords with the psychotic Smiling Knight. On his return to King's Landing he stopped to visit his sister, from whom he had been separated for years. It was there that Cersei told him that Lord Tywin intended to marry him to Lysa Tully, second daughter of Lord Hoster Tully of Riverrun. Cersei suggested that Jaime become a member of the Kingsguard instead, replacing the recently deceased Ser Harlan Grandison, to be close to her and free himself of the unwanted marriage to Lysa. After a night of passionate sex he gave his consent to Cersei's plan and within a month she has orchestrated it.[8]
Jaime Lannister portrayed by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in the HBO series.

A moon's turn later, Jaime was raised to the Kingsguard by Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower in a ceremony during the Tourney at Harrenhal, making him the youngest Knight to ever to be raised to the order.[1] That night, however, King Aerys soured the honor by sending him back to King's Landing to guard Queen Rhaella and Prince Viserys, depriving him of the chance to participate in Lord Whent's tourney. Jaime realized then that the King had only chosen him for the Kingsguard as a slight against Lord Tywin, of whom Aerys was insanely jealous, to rob him of his heir.[9] Furthermore, the plan failed to bring Jaime and Cersei closer together, as they had intended, when Lord Tywin, furious at the turn of events, resigned the Handship and returned with Cersei to Casterly Rock. Jaime remained at court, guarding the King.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jaime_Lannister

Pretty much exactly what I said just in much more intricate detail
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post #787 of 1353
5/20/12 at 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Pretty much exactly what I said just in much more intricate detail

1/2. The other half was what I said. Aerys made Jaime part of the Kingsguard to deprive Tywin of an heir.
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post #788 of 1353
5/20/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post


1/2. The other half was what I said. Aerys made Jaime part of the Kingsguard to deprive Tywin of an heir.

Look at the last sentence where I said "dick over tywin and rob him of his heir"
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post #789 of 1353
5/20/12 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Look at the last sentence where I said "dick over tywin and rob him of his heir"

I don't read last sentences. Sorry.
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post #790 of 1353
5/20/12 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonycsmoke View Post

For me, its about how they bring the book to life. How the characters and locations are realized. The books are far deeper. I spent a decent part of last summer rereading all the books getting ready for the book 5. It was time well spent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

I had never heard of GoT before the show started, and had the same conflict you're having. What finally settled it for me was the fact that it could be 5+ years for the show to catch up. I read the books because I wanted to have some idea how the story would end.(I was naive) What I've found is it has made it easier to follow the series knowing the characters and their relationships. making it easier to focus on the story. And their are enough changes from the source to still surprise me, so I'm glad I did it this way. A word of warning though: The first two books are a MUCH tighter narrative and a lot more focused. While its true the later books are much deeper than a screen adaption could ever be, they also ramble and intoduce a lot of characters and plotlines that so far seem to go nowheres. There are a lot of WTF moments reading them, but I'm still enjoying the overall story.

I appreciate the input. I suppose I'll come to the decision after I've completed book two. I'm just really loving the way the series is being presented to me on tv. Is the general consensus around here that the books are better than the tv show? I know this is usually the case, but not always the case (Dexter, before it took it's quality dive in season five).

What would really suck is if HBO doesn't see this series through to the end. I hear they are thinking of splitting Book 3 into two seasons. Is A Storm of Swords the only book big enough to justify this or are some of the following books just as large? Because if HBO continues on with this trend of splitting the books into multiple seasons, it could take 10+ years to complete the entire saga. Has any HBO show lasted that long?
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post #791 of 1353
5/20/12 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post


I appreciate the input. I suppose I'll come to the decision after I've completed book two. I'm just really loving the way the series is being presented to me on tv. Is the general consensus around here that the books are better than the tv show? I know this is usually the case, but not always the case (Dexter, before it took it's quality dive in season five).

What would really suck is if HBO doesn't see this series through to the end. I hear they are thinking of splitting Book 3 into two seasons. Is A Storm of Swords the only book big enough to justify this or are some of the following books just as large? Because if HBO continues on with this trend of splitting the books into multiple seasons, it could take 10+ years to complete the entire saga. Has any HBO show lasted that long?

I'd cite Dexter -- and True Blood -- as examples where the books are clearly inferior to the TV versions.

But in this case, I'd call them complementary. The show's visualizations, music, and (usually) casting IMO actually add to the experience of reading (or re-reading) the books which, in turn, offer detail and nuance the show lacks. The divergence in the story we're seeing now doesn't detract, as long as it doesn't change the destination, which it hasn't yet.

Book 3 is very long; cramming it into 10 episodes would hurt it. Books 4 and 5 happen mostly concurrently and will, I understand, be combined. (You wouldn't want Tyrion to sit out an entire season!) but into how many seasons we can't say; I could easily see it needing at least 30 episodes to cover those two books. So GRRM has until 2018 to finish Book 6, which is no sure thing at the rate it's going. My prediction: co-authors.
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post #792 of 1353
5/20/12 at 7:07pm
^ The fact that books 4 and 5 happen concurrently isn't a big twist or anything, is it? I'm trying to avoid book spoilers, which is why I'm treading very lightly in this thread. I just know that the whole "It's happening simulaneously" story twist has been used before in , so I'm hoping this isn't some crucial plot point.
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post #793 of 1353
5/20/12 at 7:11pm
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Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post

^ The fact that books 4 and 5 happen concurrently isn't a big twist or anything, is it? I'm trying to avoid book spoilers, which is why I'm treading very lightly in this thread. I just know that the whole "It's happening simulaneously" story twist has been used before in , so I'm hoping this isn't some crucial plot point.

It's because there's so many characters, to cover everything he split it into two books. No twist for doing it.
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post #794 of 1353
5/20/12 at 7:17pm
^ Cool, thanks.
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post #795 of 1353
5/20/12 at 7:23pm
For some reason he left out all the fan favorite characters in book 4 and saved them all for book 5. AFfC is my least favorite of all the books.
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post #796 of 1353
5/20/12 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

I'd cite Dexter -- and True Blood -- as examples where the books are clearly inferior to the TV versions.

But in this case, I'd call them complementary. The show's visualizations, music, and (usually) casting IMO actually add to the experience of reading (or re-reading) the books which, in turn, offer detail and nuance the show lacks. The divergence in the story we're seeing now doesn't detract, as long as it doesn't change the destination, which it hasn't yet.

Book 3 is very long; cramming it into 10 episodes would hurt it. Books 4 and 5 happen mostly concurrently and will, I understand, be combined. (You wouldn't want Tyrion to sit out an entire season!) but into how many seasons we can't say; I could easily see it needing at least 30 episodes to cover those two books. So GRRM has until 2018 to finish Book 6, which is no sure thing at the rate it's going. My prediction: co-authors.

Let me disagree with you on a couple of things. For Dexter, the first book is pretty good and the first season actually stays pretty close to it. In a tv show, you can't always continue the characters the way the books have them. In the case of Dexter, the books really got pretty bad and I think the tv show completely took Dexter in new directions and have done much better with the characters.

On True Blood, there is barely any relationship between the books and the show other than the set up of the characters. I really like the books and so I have problems with the show but I realize that the show is essentially completely different.

The Game of Thrones is a different bird. The series is staying very true to the spirit of the books thus far with changes made for economy of story telling. The books are very dense and I really like them. I would say that I like the books and I like what HBO is doing with the series.
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post #797 of 1353
5/21/12 at 12:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

But in this case, I'd call them complementary.

After this episode, I'm beginning to suspect the show is actually better than the books. But, and its a very big but, I think the books have enhanced my enjoyment of the show. The two really do go hand in hand. The only other time I can think of such harmony between a film and the book its based on is The Right Stuff. The writing for this show is amazing.
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post #798 of 1353
5/21/12 at 4:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post


After this episode, I'm beginning to suspect the show is actually better than the books.

I don't see how anyone could say that after this episode. There have definitely been some good changes and additions done for the show, but this ep fell far short of the books from beginning to end.
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post #799 of 1353
5/21/12 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

I don't see how anyone could say that after this episode. There have definitely been some good changes and additions done for the show, but this ep fell far short of the books from beginning to end.

I think they especially bungled Jaime's release. Many non-book readers are confused at the motivation and rationale. You can see it in the various episode reviews posted last night.

I got the impression that the producers realized that they were running out of time and needed to get Jaime and Brienne on the road ASAP. As a result, they toss off the whole scene to Catelyn acting like a crazed mom, yet again.

I would've traded Jaime's whole murder scene in last week's episode for a better transition to his escape this week.
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post #800 of 1353
5/21/12 at 7:14am
I liked this week's episode. I thought the scene between Rob and Lady Cat after she had released Jaime did a brilliant job of showing that, despite her high minded motives, Cat's decision to let Jaime go was terribly wrong. She put Rob in a bad spot with his Bannerman for a desperate, long shot venture that was almost certainly doomed to failure.

Like others, I think the show has been wonderfully cast. For example, where did they find Gwendoline Christie, the 6 feet 3 inches tall Amazon who plays Brienne, the Maid of Tarth? I realized Christie was tall but when I noticed that she was as tall as the big guy who plays Jaime, I was impressed. I did a little research and found a Web page that said how tall she is. The young actor playing Fat Sam is also terrific. Finally, the young actress, Oona Chaplin, who plays Rob's lady love, has blown me away. She has been wonderful. I guess that shouldn't surprise us, though, she has good genes.
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post #801 of 1353
5/21/12 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rflor View Post

I think they especially bungled Jaime's release. Many non-book readers are confused at the motivation and rationale. You can see it in the various episode reviews posted last night.

I got the impression that the producers realized that they were running out of time and needed to get Jaime and Brienne on the road ASAP. As a result, they toss off the whole scene to Catelyn acting like a crazed mom, yet again.

I would've traded Jaime's whole murder scene in last week's episode for a better transition to his escape this week.

The one big change is that, in the books, everyone was aware that Theon had (supposedly) killed Bran and Rickon. That gave Catelyn much more motivation to get Sansa and Arya back.
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post #802 of 1353
5/21/12 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

I don't see how anyone could say that after this episode. There have definitely been some good changes and additions done for the show, but this ep fell far short of the books from beginning to end.

We will just have to agree to disagree then I like the fact that Robb is a major focus of the story, a much more fleshed out character than in the book. I thought the growing romance between him and the girl was well done as well as making his breaking his vow to the Freys more believable. Plus the confrontation between him and his mother after she let Jamie go was much better than the book, where it was her and her brother. For one thing, we saw how much Robb is like his father. For another. it highlighted the conflict he felt between love for family and his responsibilities as king. He's much more a tragic hero in the series where in the book he is rather vague and undefined.
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post #803 of 1353
5/21/12 at 10:26am
I am really enjoying the show, and find that in some areas it beats the book for me, and falls behind in others.

The biggest disappointment in the second season so far has been how Tyrion's role has been quite reduced compared to the book. There has been no mention of the huge chains he ordered all the smithy's to make - which was basically a deciding factor in Blackwater. The show is making him out to be much less of a strategist than he was in the books.
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post #804 of 1353
5/21/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

The A Song of Ice and Fire books and the Game of Thrones TV series are based on the feudal concept of fealty to one's lord. It starts with serfs on farms, who owe fealty to their lord. That lord owes fealty to his lord and so on up the line to the king. All have a duty to fight for their lords in war. Thus, Knight's are "hired swords" in the sense that they have pledged fealty to their liege lords, which includes fighting for them in wartime.

I would argue that in GRRM's world, it's more complicated than that. See this wiki article. I think it was more complex is the real world, too. Calling a knight a hired sword would be, in many cases, an insult.

To me, a hired sword is a mercenary, someone who will fight for anyone, regardless of who they are or what they're trying to do, as long as they have the money to pay.
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post #805 of 1353
5/21/12 at 1:01pm
I've only read the last 7 or 8 pages in this thread so don't know if this topic has been speculated about. The Targaryen seal is a three-headed dragon. There are three dragons. Daenerys rides one, but who will ride the other two?

Given Martin's propensity of adding new characters there's a good chance they haven't been introduced yet. If you've read the books, in A Dance with Dragons a new character is introduced who might end up a rider and, given Targaryen marriage tradition, Daenerys' husband to be.

IMO the most droll choice would be Tyrion.

Hopefully HBO will continue with the series through all the books but ultimately it will be finances that will dictate whether that happens or not. Apparently there was to be a third season of HBO's widely acclaimed Rome but the numbers didn't pencil out and it didn't happen.
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post #806 of 1353
5/21/12 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Hopefully HBO will continue with the series through all the books but ultimately it will be finances that will dictate whether that happens or not. Apparently there was to be a third season of HBO's widely acclaimed Rome but the numbers didn't pencil out and it didn't happen.

- It's been mentioned before that HBO believes they made a mistake in not renewing Rome. They did not factor in DVD sales when considering whether or not to renew the series.
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post #807 of 1353
5/21/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

- It's been mentioned before that HBO believes they made a mistake in not renewing Rome. They did not factor in DVD sales when considering whether or not to renew the series.

I think the same could be said for Deadwood. In the case of GoT, HBO has to know (I think they do) that Thrones, while being expensive, brings in major revenue, both in subscriptions and BD/DVD sales - not to mention prestige.
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post #808 of 1353
5/22/12 at 9:22am
Earlier today I posted a Grantland.com link to an essay about this week's Game of Thrones episode to the No Spoilers thread. Some posters there who also post here suggested that I post it here. The author, Andy Greenwald is a clever fellow and I look forward to his comments about the show every week.
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post #809 of 1353
5/22/12 at 9:34am
I don't have HBO so I'm wondering how soon after GoT Season 2 is over might one expect to see it in BD? How long did it take Season 1 to appear? Does HBO typically show a series 2 or 3 times before releasing it?
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post #810 of 1353
5/22/12 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

I don't have HBO so I'm wondering how soon after GoT Season 2 is over might one expect to see it in BD? How long did it take Season 1 to appear? Does HBO typically show a series 2 or 3 times before releasing it?

Season 1 BD appeared in March 2012. I expect season 2 BD to appear in March 2013.
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