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'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 29

post #841 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by innuss View Post

I tried reading Game of Thrones before the mini-series came out but I couldn't get in to it. Then when I started watching the show, I was hooked & did what Mpray 1983 did & read them all.
I just started re-reading the series for the 2nd time & it is amazing all of the things that you miss the 1st time through.

Ain't it the truth. As I'm prone to do, I picked up A Storm of Swords last night and started reading at random. It was a talk between Robb and his mother, where he admits he should have taken her advice and traded Jamie for Sansa. He then could have offered her hand to Loras, thus ensuring Tyrell loyalty (as well as making his sister very happy, what with her crush on the knight of flowers). I didn't remember that part at all-think about the profound changes that would have made in the storyline if it had happened!
post #842 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post

Hey, it looks like Jojen and Meera Reed are gonna make the TV series after all. Entertainment Weekly has released a brief interview with Benioff and Weiss, where they reveal some of the characters coming in Season 3.

- I'm there was a collective sigh of relief at that news from book readers.
post #843 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

Ain't it the truth. As I'm prone to do, I picked up A Storm of Swords last night and started reading at random. It was a talk between Robb and his mother, where he admits he should have taken her advice and traded Jamie for Sansa. He then could have offered her hand to Loras, thus ensuring Tyrell loyalty (as well as making his sister very happy, what with her crush on the knight of flowers). I didn't remember that part at all-think about the profound changes that would have made in the storyline if it had happened!

Martin will never let something positive happen for the Starks without pulling the rug out down the road. If/when a Stark does take control of their destiny, it will probably be in the final act.
post #844 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Martin will never let something positive happen for the Starks without pulling the rug out down the road. If/when a Stark does take control of their destiny, it will probably be in the final act.

If there are any left by then...maybe one of the direwolves will end up on the iron throne...
post #845 of 1679
Reading through the non-spoiler thread recently, someone alluded to the Renly/Margaery dialog where she offered up her brother as incentive, but they couldn't discuss it in that thread. Didn't see it brought up here, but perhaps I missed it...

Anyway, was there ever any reference in the books to Renly being gay? Or is that solely a product of the HBO series?

I didn't start reading the books until after season 1 so I went in with the expectations of a gay Renly, but never saw it backed up in the books. Did I miss a reference here or there? Beyond the "Knight of Flowers" pseudonym of course...
post #846 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMavs View Post

Anyway, was there ever any reference in the books to Renly being gay? Or is that solely a product of the HBO series?

There were some things in the book from which it might be inferred that Renly was gay but it was far from explicit. Anyway, I didn't have an objection to the way the Renly character was written for the TV series.
post #847 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMavs View Post

Reading through the non-spoiler thread recently, someone alluded to the Renly/Margaery dialog where she offered up her brother as incentive, but they couldn't discuss it in that thread. Didn't see it brought up here, but perhaps I missed it...

Anyway, was there ever any reference in the books to Renly being gay? Or is that solely a product of the HBO series?

I didn't start reading the books until after season 1 so I went in with the expectations of a gay Renly, but never saw it backed up in the books. Did I miss a reference here or there? Beyond the "Knight of Flowers" pseudonym of course...

Rainbow Guard, Stannis' baiting of Renly, Margaery remaining a virgin, a few other quips.
post #848 of 1679
Does the young son at the end of the episode that was almost killed by his mother play any bigger part later on? I kind of got the impression they were setting something up but maybe I was reading into it.
post #849 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageone79 View Post

Does the young son at the end of the episode that was almost killed by his mother play any bigger part later on? I kind of got the impression they were setting something up but maybe I was reading into it.


Let's just say yes and leave it at that!
post #850 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMavs View Post

Anyway, was there ever any reference in the books to Renly being gay? Or is that solely a product of the HBO series?

Definitely not a product of the HBO series. Keeping in mind that Renly, Loras and Margaery aren't POV characters, everything we know about them comes through someone else's eyes. But there are plenty of hints that come through dialog and other characters' POVs.

In Clash of Kings, Stannis makes a crack to Renly that Margarey is likely to die a maid in Renly's bed. When Catelyn is with them at a feast, she notices Renly is ignoring Margarey and spending most of his time with Loras. In Storm of Swords, Tyrion hires some of Renly's former servants, noting that working for Renly gave them a lot of practice at being blind, deaf and mute, implying they were good at keeping secrets.

Re Loras -- when he finds out Renly is dead, he kills the two knights who were supposed to be protecting him. A pretty strong reaction for a friend's death, even a close one. The Red Viper calls Loras "Renly's little rose." At Sansa's wedding, in SoS, Garlan Tyrell tells her that Tyrion will make her a better husband than Loras would. Littlefinger tells Sansa that for Mace Tyrell, finding a wife for Loras would have been even more difficult than it usually is for a third son. Why, given his good looks and prowess in battle?

Anyway, there's more stuff like this, but if you're asking if anyone witnesses Loras and Renly having sex, then no. But there are quite a few hints that both were gay and they were more than just friends to each other.

And also... GRRM has confirmed it.
post #851 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageone79 View Post

Does the young son at the end of the episode that was almost killed by his mother play any bigger part later on? I kind of got the impression they were setting something up but maybe I was reading into it.

This thread is a dangerous place for you if you don't want to know too much. Asking questions like that could lead to huge spoilers.
post #852 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

Ain't it the truth. As I'm prone to do, I picked up A Storm of Swords last night and started reading at random. It was a talk between Robb and his mother, where he admits he should have taken her advice and traded Jamie for Sansa. He then could have offered her hand to Loras, thus ensuring Tyrell loyalty (as well as making his sister very happy, what with her crush on the knight of flowers). I didn't remember that part at all-think about the profound changes that would have made in the storyline if it had happened!

Robb had a lot to bemoan along with Catelyn's brother who screwed things up royally and allowed Tywin the opportunity to go back to Kings Landing and whip Stannis.
post #853 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMavs View Post

Reading through the non-spoiler thread recently, someone alluded to the Renly/Margaery dialog where she offered up her brother as incentive, but they couldn't discuss it in that thread. Didn't see it brought up here, but perhaps I missed it...

Anyway, was there ever any reference in the books to Renly being gay? Or is that solely a product of the HBO series?

I didn't start reading the books until after season 1 so I went in with the expectations of a gay Renly, but never saw it backed up in the books. Did I miss a reference here or there? Beyond the "Knight of Flowers" pseudonym of course...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

There were some things in the book from which it might be inferred that Renly was gay but it was far from explicit. Anyway, I didn't have an objection to the way the Renly character was written for the TV series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

Rainbow Guard, Stannis' baiting of Renly, Margaery remaining a virgin, a few other quips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

Definitely not a product of the HBO series. Keeping in mind that Renly, Loras and Margaery aren't POV characters, everything we know about them comes through someone else's eyes. But there are plenty of hints that come through dialog and other characters' POVs.

In Clash of Kings, Stannis makes a crack to Renly that Margarey is likely to die a maid in Renly's bed. When Catelyn is with them at a feast, she notices Renly is ignoring Margarey and spending most of his time with Loras. In Storm of Swords, Tyrion hires some of Renly's former servants, noting that working for Renly gave them a lot of practice at being blind, deaf and mute, implying they were good at keeping secrets.

Re Loras -- when he finds out Renly is dead, he kills the two knights who were supposed to be protecting him. A pretty strong reaction for a friend's death, even a close one. The Red Viper calls Loras "Renly's little rose." At Sansa's wedding, in SoS, Garlan Tyrell tells her that Tyrion will make her a better husband than Loras would. Littlefinger tells Sansa that for Mace Tyrell, finding a wife for Loras would have been even more difficult than it usually is for a third son. Why, given his good looks and prowess in battle?

Anyway, there's more stuff like this, but if you're asking if anyone witnesses Loras and Renly having sex, then no. But there are quite a few hints that both were gay and they were more than just friends to each other.

And also... GRRM has confirmed it.

Correct answers all. I just wanted to add a few things:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...clueless-club/

http://www.fanpop.com/spots/game-of-...book-something

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchi...orasrenly.html
post #854 of 1679
There was speculation about Margerary really still being a virgin though...I got the implications of Renly-Loras when reading the books but never gave it much thought. If anything I thought they "swang both ways" so to speak. It just seemed to me when you were horny in that world you used whatever was available to sate the urge. Them being gay in the modern meaning of the word didn't really occur to me...man, I just realized what a swamp this subject could end up going into. Nuff said
post #855 of 1679
Jamie alludes to Loras and Renly as lovers after Lora's joins kingsguard. He says "he'll stick the sword even where renly couldn't find"

Also cersei doesn't want to allow tommen to be trained in knighthood by loras stating his manhood as the reason.
post #856 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

This thread is a dangerous place for you if you don't want to know too much. Asking questions like that could lead to huge spoilers.

that's why i'm in here... I want the spoilers.

give them up!
post #857 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Jamie alludes to Loras and Renly as lovers after Lora's joins kingsguard. He says "he'll stick the sword even where renly couldn't find"

Also cersei doesn't want to allow tommen to be trained in knighthood by loras stating his manhood as the reason.

I don't think that was the major reason though, but thats subjective. And wasn't Cersei the one who questioned Margerary's maidenhood, to the point of having her examined, because she didn't believe the standard story-that the marriage wasn't consumated because Renly was too busy gathering an army and preparing for war? The way I remember it she didn't think Renly would have any problem deflowering his queen and suspected he had. Admittingly, my knowledge of the books isn't equal to yours. My only real point is one can read the books without giving too much thought to a Renly-Loras romantic connection. Its much more spelled out on the show
post #858 of 1679
Yes please what does the young boy become. They did a good job of foreshadowing in the show!
post #859 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageone79 View Post

Yes please what does the young boy become. They did a good job of foreshadowing in the show!

In case others don't want to know. Major spoilers for Season 3/4 below. You are warned
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Tommen becomes king, after Joffrey is poisoned and dies at his wedding to Margaery Tyrrell. She then marries him instead, and proceeds to control him, and turn him away from Cersai.
post #860 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycruiser View Post

In case others don't want to know. Major spoilers for Season 3/4 below. You are warned
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Tommen becomes king, after Joffrey is poisoned and dies at his wedding to Margaery Tyrrell. She then marries him instead, and proceeds to control him, and turn him away from Cersai.

I have one correction.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I do believe that Joffrey is poisoned and dies at his wedding after he marries Margaery Tyrrell. She then marries Tommen and proceeds to control him, and turn him away from Cersei. Cersei then gets in big trouble with the church after trying to frame Margaery.
post #861 of 1679
Thanks for the clarifications on Renly. The books have a lot of subtle hints while the show is over the top and having started with the over the top rendition I was surprised it wasn't more clearly stated in the books...
post #862 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post


I don't think that was the major reason though, but thats subjective. And wasn't Cersei the one who questioned Margerary's maidenhood, to the point of having her examined, because she didn't believe the standard story-that the marriage wasn't consumated because Renly was too busy gathering an army and preparing for war? The way I remember it she didn't think Renly would have any problem deflowering his queen and suspected he had. Admittingly, my knowledge of the books isn't equal to yours. My only real point is one can read the books without giving too much thought to a Renly-Loras romantic connection. Its much more spelled out on the show

She stated his manhood as the reason but i saw it as she didn't want him growing closer to Loras or his sister.
post #863 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

I have one correction.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I do believe that Joffrey is poisoned and dies at his wedding after he marries Margaery Tyrrell. She then marries Tommen and proceeds to control him, and turn him away from Cersei. Cersei then gets in big trouble with the church after trying to frame Margaery.

Since we're running with the spoilers, one further connection to Season 2 is...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Cersei's issues with the Church are directly attributable to the rise of a radical faction due to the power vacuum resulting from the head priest's death during Season 2 mob action.
post #864 of 1679
dang, that little pr$@k gets his due via poisoning? was hoping for something more violent...
post #865 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie_d_lopez View Post

dang, that little pr$@k gets his due via poisoning? was hoping for something more violent...

Hmm, seems that poison is the preferred MO to eiminate Kings.
post #866 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie_d_lopez View Post

dang, that little pr$@k gets his due via poisoning? was hoping for something more violent...

Based on the scene in the book, you should be pleased by the amount of suffering involved.
post #867 of 1679
In the book where was Stannis during Blackwater?

Skimming through the book there's a reference from Tyrion that unlike his brother Robert, Stannis doesn't enjoy battle and would be leading from the safety of the rear (much as Lord Tywin would). The implication is strongly that he's not on a ship, but commanding the ground forces on the other side of the bay. On the show, I think he even references that plan, but then appears to be on a boat during the battle & then of course leads the ground assault after rowing ashore.

I can't find any reference in the book that he ever approaches the city walls himself. Just that some forces from the boats besiege the gates which Tyrion routs & then some of his ground forces make it across the bay via the make shift bridge of wrecked boats which Tyrion then attacks & disperses before his ill-fated battle with Ser Mandon Moore.

The implication is that Stannis never crosses the bay & retreats when his forces get attacked by the combined armies of Tywin Lannister & the Tyrells. Did I miss a reference anywhere as to what Stannis was doing in the book?

So why the radical difference in the show where Stannis is leading the attack on the castle and is the first to scale the wall? They show his men dragging him back, but back to where? Are we really to believe that they managed to retreat off the castle wall, down the ladder, thru the Lannister forces outside the Gates & then across the bay somehow?

Odd choice, as they had a much more plausible story from the books to run with. I'm amused via the non-spoiler thread that many think Stannis was captured, but reviewing the events, that does seem more plausible than escape given where he was in the battle.
post #868 of 1679
In the book where was Stannis during Blackwater?

Skimming through the book there's a reference from Tyrion that unlike his brother Robert, Stannis doesn't enjoy battle and would be leading from the safety of the rear (much as Lord Tywin would). The implication is strongly that he's not on a ship, but commanding the ground forces on the other side of the bay. On the show, I think he even references that plan, but then appears to be on a boat during the battle & then of course leads the ground assault after rowing ashore.

I can't find any reference in the book that he ever approaches the city walls himself. Just that some forces from the boats besiege the gates which Tyrion routs & then some of his ground forces make it across the bay via the make shift bridge of wrecked boats which Tyrion then attacks & disperses before his ill-fated battle with Ser Mandon Moore.

The implication is that Stannis never crosses the bay & retreats when his forces get attacked by the combined armies of Tywin Lannister & the Tyrells. Did I miss a reference anywhere as to what Stannis was doing in the book?

So why the radical difference in the show where Stannis is leading the attack on the castle and is the first to scale the wall? They show his men dragging him back, but back to where? Are we really to believe that they managed to retreat off the castle wall, down the ladder, thru the Lannister forces outside the Gates & then across the bay somehow?

Odd choice, as they had a much more plausible story from the books to run with. I'm amused via the non-spoiler thread that many think Stannis was captured, but reviewing the events, that does seem more plausible than escape given where he was in the battle.
post #869 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMavs View Post

In the book where was Stannis during Blackwater?

On a boat, outside the bay, watching the battle with Melisandre.
post #870 of 1679
I did think it was weird that they showed him at the very front of the battle in the episode and the first up the ladder. There is being a leader and then there is being stupid ! It would have been way to easy to kill him if he really was that close to the front.
On a side note do the books do a good job of tying all of these events and people together?
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