Version: 2011.02.23 (current up to post #1051)
Purpose
The purpose of this writeup is to inform potential buyers of the common strengths and weaknesses of the LG xxLD450 series. Also to act as a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for common problems and questions that current owners have.
Author’s Note: This writeup is based on the combination of my own personal opinions/thoughts and the collective opinions/thoughts expressed in this thread. If there’s something that is blatently wrong, or something that needs to be added, let me know. And finally, a big thanks to everyone that has posted in this thread -- I couldn't have come up with this writeup if it wasn't for your inputs
.
Quick SummaryPros:
- 1-2 frames of input lag (16-32 ms). Lowest lag of 2010 LCD TVs.
- Passes 4:4:4 chroma subsampling on HDMI ports.
- Extremely rich menu options.
- Uses S-IPS panels (beware panel lottery).
Cons:
- Suffers from the “panel lottery” issue.
- Black levels are pretty weak at 0.20 cd/m^2.
- Backlight uniformity issue along the screen edge.
- White flesh tones too yellow (not all panels?).
- Static noise when using the headphone jack.
If you will be primarily using your TV for gaming and/or as a PC monitor, then the LG xxLD450 series is arguably the best TV for you. This recommendation is based on measured proof and feedback from several owners. The xxLD450 is also decent enough for TV and movie watching, but there are better alternatives if these are your primary uses.
Official LG xxLD450 Specifications
32" -
http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/...tv-32LD450.jsp
37" -
http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/...tv-37LD450.jsp
42" -
http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/...tv-42LD450.jsp
47" -
http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/...tv-47LD450.jsp2010 LG TV Comparison Chart
* Chart originally from Amazon
xxLD450 Alternatives
The alternatives listed here are strictly based on what I’ve personally seen with my own eyes. I can’t do a comparative for every TV out there, so there could very well be another TV out there that would blow these alternatives out of the water. But at the very least, you can use these as a starting point and work from there.
- Sony xxEX500 (comparable input lag and picture quality, better black levels, lacks 4:4:4 chroma subsampling (does 4:2:2 instead)).
- Vizio XVTxx3SV (better picture quality and black levels, lacks 4:4:4 chroma subsampling, very bad input lag).
Detailed Explanation of ProsVery Low Input Lag
“Input lag” is the delay between the time a display receives a signal and the time it is actually gets shown on the display. Having low input lag is especially important for gamers because a large delay between joystick input and visual feedback can severely detract from gameplay. This is especially true for rhythm/synchronization games like Guitar Hero, Rockband, etc. Additionally, low input lag is desirable for PC/HTPC users because it mimics the “user experience” of what you already expect from a PC (i.e., instantaneous mouse cursor movements, snappy visual feedback from user input, etc).
The xxLD450 has a measured input lag of 1-2 frames (16-32 ms). Input lag test results can be found here:
link. This makes the xxLD450 one of the best 2010 TVs (if not *the* best) when it comes to low input lag. Most other TVs have a minimum of 3+ frames (48+ ms). This based from my own input lag testing of several sets (
link1,
link2,
link3,
link4,
link5) and from the input lag results of others (see the input lag wars thread:
link)
4:4:4 Chroma Subsampling
“Chroma subsampling” is a video compression technique used to reduce the bandwidth required for transmitting digital imagery data. This is accomplished by “merging” the colors of neighboring pixels into one. In terms of actual TV picture quality, areas with two neighboring colors (especially red) will seem blurry and fuzzy without proper 4:4:4.
4:4:4 support is better described in pictures than in words, so check out these 4:4:4 test results:
link1 and
link2. The first one is the LG 32LD450 and the second is the Sony 32EX500. On the LG, all the vertical red lines are perfectly represented as a single column of red pixels. But on the Sony, the vertical red lines are represented as alternating columns of pure red (correct) and “faded” red (incorrect).
There are *very* few LCD TVs that can fully support 4:4:4 chroma. Colmino did an extensive search for 4:4:4 capable TVs, and hardly any were found. You can see his results here:
link. Since most people have never seen full 4:4:4, they don’t know any better. But once you’ve seen 4:4:4 with you own eyes, you won’t accept anything less
.
Note1: 4:4:4 support is generally only important for PC connections and game consoles. Pretty much all HD media (including bluray) is already subsampled down to 4:2:2 or lower.
Note2: For clearer and bigger 4:4:4 test results, see zoran0909's results (
link)
Rich Menu Options
Of all the TVs I’ve tested, none come even close to the number of options available for tweaking than the xxLD450 (this is probably true for the other LD series). I won’t go into detail of every option available, but some notable highlights include:
- H-Sharpness and V-Sharpess
- 10 Point IRE Luminance
- Color Gamut
- Gamma
- RGB/YCM Color Compensation
S-IPS Panels
In the LCD world, there are multiple LCDs panel types. The most common types being In Plane Switching (IPS), Multi-Domain/Patterned Vertical Alignment (MVA/PVA), and Twisted Nematic (TN). A detailed description of each panel type is beyond the scope of this writeup, but if you want a detailed comparison, read this:
link.
The IPS panel variant used in LG’s TV lineup is called Super IPS (S-IPS). Although S-IPS is an older variant of the IPS family (debut in 2001), its advantages still hold true against modern MVA/PVA and TN panel types. Here’s a quick list of key IPS advantages:
- Extremely wide viewing angles (178 degrees by 178 degrees)
- Wider color gamut (better color reproduction)
- Overall better picture quality and clarity (subjective, but generally agreed upon)
To put IPS technology in practical perspective, people who demand the best picture quality possible (i.e., photographers, CG artists, medical displays, etc) often seek displays equipped with IPS technology. However, despite its strengths, IPS technology has its share of weaknesses too, and those will be described in the following Cons section.
Detailed Explanation of ConsLG Panel Lottery
The majority of LG’s 2010 LCD TV lineup (xx450, xx520, xx550, xx650, xxLE5300, xxLE5400, and possibly others) fall victim to the dreaded “panel lottery”. What this means is that a single LG model can be equipped with any of the panel types listed earlier. Fortunately, through collective observations on this forum, there is a surefire way of picking out a LG TV with the S-IPS panel type (the panel type that most people prefer). The key is to look at the product code / serial sticker that’s on the box. See here for an example:
link. Note: this is a pic of a xxLE5400 box, but the xxLD450 box is pretty much identical to it.
For a S-IPS panel type, make sure the fourth character of the last text segment is a “W”. So for example, a 32LD450 with a full product code of “32LD450 - UA.CUSWLH” means this particular TV has a S-IPS panel type (because of the “W” character). Below is a compilation of panel types found so far with their associated fourth character...
W = S-IPS (common)
D = A-MVA (common)
I = IPS Alpha (rare) (
link)
L = ?-MVA (rare) (
link)
Z = S-IPS (rare) (
link)
Backlight Uniformity Issue Along The Screen Edge
“Backlight uniformity” describes the LCD’s backlight distribution of light onto the screen. Perfect backlight uniformity means the backlight produces even lighting across the entire screen. Which allows colors (including white and black) to be represented without discoloration no matter where it is on the screen. But no matter how awesome or expensive a LCD is, perfect backlight uniformity does not exist.
With the xxLD450, backlight uniformity is particularly bad along the edges of the screen. See this as an example:
link. Note: the pics are from the xxLD520, but xxLD450 owners have reported a similar effect. Theoretically, the white areas along the screen edge should be bright white just like it is in the center. But because those areas are not getting ample light from the backlight, the whites are darker in appearance.
The lack of backlight uniformity is extremely apparent with large areas of a single color (especially white or black). But in practice, staring at a static solid blob of one color when watching TV or playing a game is pretty infrequent. With an actual picture being displayed, backlight uniformity problems are not as noticeable. How “noticeable” it is depends on the sensitivity of your eyes and your room lighting. For me, as long as I’m not staring at a overly bright or overly dark screen, I do not even notice the problem (in fact, it was not until another poster pointed it out that I finally noticed the problem). But for a very few with high sensitivity, the backlight uniformity problem is definitely a concern.
Weak Black Levels
“Black level” is a measure of how dark a black color can be shown on the display. The lower the black level, the “blacker” the blacks will be. Conversely, the higher the black level, the “whiter/grayer” the blacks will be. Weak black levels goes hand-in-hand with the backlight uniformity problem described earlier. With traditional LCD technology, it is impossible to attain a perfect black level (unless you turn off the TV, but that kind of defeats the purpose
). But depending on how the TV manufacturer implements the backlight source, a blacker black is possible.
Unfortunately for the xxLD450, it has below-average black levels. De3k, who used a professional calibration/measurement tool, only managed to get a black level of 0.20 cd/m^2 (
link). It could have gone lower, but it severely degraded overall picture quality. In comparison, a TV with a reputation of above-average black levels is the Sony xxEX500, which has a measured black level of 0.04 cd/m^2.
White Skin Tones Too Yellow
According to a few owners, white skin tones have a yellow discoloration. But from the observations of others and myself, skin tones look normal. Therefore, there’s only two possible explanations: 1) There is a genuine defect with some panels that cause skin tones to be yellow; or 2) This is a genuine defect on *all* panels, but some people’s eyes are not perceptible to it. My only recommendation for you is to look at the TV yourself at a local store. Since these TVs have a built-in photo viewer app through its usb port, bring in a few sample photos on a usb flash drive and check to see if this issue exists for you.
If you use rawashdeh's calibrated settings (found in Q2 of the FAQ), the yellow skin tones issue doesn't seem to be a problem. But if you want to use your own picture settings, there are some ways to mitigate the issue...
This is what De3k recommends: "The yellow skin tones, I can also attest to that. It's easiest to eliminate them in Game mode with the skin tone specific setting, but you can also mess with red tint to introduce a little pink if you want to stay under Expert. I also used my Nvidia CP "Hue" slider to tidy things up. I wasn't crazy about either solution, as tint and hue both mess with overall PQ." His original post can be found here:
link.
The Angry Lion also has a fix: "Mine's an A-MVA panel set, and yeah, PBC's settings give me overly yellow skin tones. Right now I'm just using the settings I got for "expert 1" by using the built-in "picture wizard" calibration thing, and using that I don't seem to have the yellow skin tone problem." His original post can be found here:
link.
Static Noise on Headphone Jack
When listening to audio through the xxLD450's headphone jack, there's noticeable static in the audio. Its especially noticeable during low volume audio, and the Halo Opening Theme (orchestral version) is a good sample to use to highlight the issue (
link).
Currently there isn't a fix for this problem. The only viable workaround is to use the optical out port instead, which does not exhibit the static noise problem (verified by doctorwizz:
link). To convert optical back to analog, you will need a converter like this one:
link. Note, I personally have not tested this converter, so I can't guarantee it will work. But I certainly don't see a reason why it wouldn't work.
FAQQ1) How do I find a xxLD450 with the S-IPS panel?
Look at the product code sticker on the box. See this example for the location of the product code sticker:
link. If the fourth character of the last segment of the product code is “W”, then its a S-IPS panel. Example1: “xxLD450 - UA.CUSWLH” means S-IPS. Example2: “xxLD450 - UA.CUSDLH” means MVA.
Q2) Do you have any recommended color settings to use?
A huge thanks to rawashdeh, as he's the first (to my knowledge) to provide xxLD450 color settings based on real calibration measurements. You can find his settings and corresponding color space charts here:
link. Feedback from other owners have been extremely positive, so his settings are probably the best you're going to get.
If rawashdeh's picture settings seem too dim or too fuzzy to you, then I recommend these adjustments... Set Backlight to 70-80, set H/V Sharpness to 33/55, and set Edge Enhancer to Off.
Remember, all LD450's are created differently due to manufacturing variances, so none of rawashdeh's settings are absolute. You should use these as a starting point and adjust accordingly using LCD calibration images. Lagom.nl is a good source for some calibration images, you can find them here:
link.
Prior to rawashdeh's calibrated settings, there were other non-calibrated settings that worked pretty well. If you want to give them a try, then here they are... My settings are geared towards PC monitor use, and you can find them here:
link. jangaboo’s gaming-centric settings are pretty decent too:
link. Finally, Phase700B’s settings can be found here:
link.
Q3) You said the xxLD450 supports 4:4:4, but I’m not seeing it, what's wrong? -OR- Why is the overall picture quality fuzzy, especially red colored text?
After extensive research and experimentation by galneon and others, 4:4:4 sampling will not work if you use a direct HDMI->HDMI connection. For both Nvidia and ATI video cards, there appears to be something intrinsically wrong with the HDMI information exchange when HDMI video+audio is enabled, which forces 4:2:2. galneon's overall conclusion about this issue can be found here:
link. If you want to read the entire chain of posts, start here:
link. It is of interesting note that this problem is universal, and not just specific to the xxLD450.
Currently, there's only two workarounds. 1) Use your video card's DVI port with a DVI->HDMI adapter, or 2) Use the EDID Override fix . The EDID override disables the HDMI extensions which will force the TV to appear as a typical DVI monitor to your video card (as if you were using a DVI->HDMI adapter). However, by disabling the HDMI extensions, you no longer get audio over HDMI.
If you want to try the EDID Override fix, then the installation procedure for Windows can be found here:
link. This fix should work on both Nvidia and ATI video cards, and on all sizes of the xxLD450. For Linux computers, you can use DarkNovaNick's instructions which can be found here:
link.
In some rare cases, even if you are using a DVI->HDMI connection, you still won't get 4:4:4 sampling. If this is the case, then give the EDID Override fix a try. There are reports the EDID override fixes this instance as well.
And in the extreme worst case, 4:4:4 sampling will never work. No one has figured why this happens, since there are way too many variables at play. If you are an unfortunate victim of this outcome, then post a message about it and we'll try to help you out as much as we can.
Q4) How can I get into the service menu?
Unfortunately, getting into the service menu can’t be done using the standard LG remote. Apparently the remote lacks the capability to send a unique IR code to bring up the service menu password screen.
But if you have a Logitech Harmony remote, then you’re in luck. I used the directions found here:
link, and it worked for me. Note: the password to get into EZ Adjust is 0413 or 0000.
Why bother going into the service menu? There's really only one big thing and one small thing worth doing. The big thing is to enable the Divx flag (Tool Option3, set Divx to 1). This will unlock the 'Movie List' feature under the My Media menu -- which is a standard feature found in the xxLD550 and up models. This allows you to play movie files from your USB flash drive connected to the USB port located on the side of the TV. The small thing is to enable the THX flag (Tool Option4, set THX to 1). This will unlock "THX Cinema" and "THX Bright Room" picture modes. The already available ISF Expert picture modes offer the best flexibility in customization, so these two THX modes are somewhat moot.
Within the service menu there are also other things like bluetooth and wifi. DO NOT enable these features. It is assumed that since the LD450 does not advertise these features, then they lack the physical hardware to support these features. As such, if you enable a feature that a TV is not designed for, then there's a very strong probability that you may brick your TV.
If you don't have a Logitech Harmony remote, there are posts about using a generic universal remote to get into the service menu on the xxLD450 thread on AVforum (
link). These posts are scattered about, so just do a thread search (most relevant posts seem to be on pages 14-16). Just know that AVforum is predominantly catered for European models, so whatever procedures they have may not apply to the North American models.
Q5) I can’t look at the product code sticker because I want to order the xxLD450 online. So do you know if Amazon (or other online retailer) carry the xxLD450 with the “W”?
Online retailers are hit or miss. I personally ordered two 32”ers from Amazon back in Sept 2010 and both were the S-IPS versions. But equally on the other end, other people have ordered from Amazon and received MVA versions. There's a few guys over in the IPS-LE5300 thread that have bought several from Amazon and kept returning until they found an IPS one. Kind of comical actually, you can read the start of the chain here:
link.
Q6) What’s the difference between the xxLD400 and xxLD450?
Colmino did a great comparison between the two. You can find the details here:
link.
Q7) Does the xxLD450 have a PC sleep / wake-up feature?
Sleep, yes. When your PC stops sending a video signal, the display will show its “no signal” spinning logo for about 10 minutes (non-adjustable), and then turn itself off. Wake-up, no. To bring the display back on, you have to manually press the power button.
Q8) I’m using my TV as a PC monitor. Should I relabel my HDMI port to “PC”?
No, definitely not. When you relabel the HDMI port to “PC”, the Edge Enhancer is forced to High. This causes picture quality to be overly sharpened and things like text quality suffers. Aside from that, setting the “PC” label doesn’t seem to do anything else.
Q9) Since this is a 60 Hz TV, will I experience judder from 24p bluray content?
The xxLD450 has a pretty decent 3:2 pull down engine. I’ve watched Avatar in 1080p/24 and did not notice any judder at all. I do admit though, "artificial" movies like Avatar isn't the best material for testing judder. Material with expansive slow panning of large environments (i.e., Planet Earth, Life, etc) are better sources. So if anyone can test for 24p judder using this kind of material and report back, please do.
Current Theory - According to the "Real Cinema" mode definition in the TV manual (
link, thanks 24k), it sounds like the xxLD450 is capable of displaying a true 48Hz picture. If that's the case, then 3:2 pulldown is not necessary, which effectively eliminates any judder problems. If someone has a method to validate true 48Hz capability, please do so and let us know of the results.
Q10) Is the A-MVA panel **really** that inferior to the S-IPS panel?
Not at all. Although most people prefer S-IPS, there are definitely people that enjoy the A-MVA panel. The Angry Lion had his LD450 disassembled for some repairs, and he found out the panel make of his 37" A-MVA is T370HW03 (
link). From a quick google search, this is the same panel used in the Samsung C530 and Sony EX500 series, and both of those TVs have a very large happy fan base. NOTE: Although they may use the same panels, by no means is the picture quality identical. Other factors such as TV software, backlight implementation, anti-glare/polarizer coating, etc play a significant role in the final picture.
As for personal opinions, pcguru83 looked at both S-IPS and A-MVA versions and he prefers the A-MVA (
link). The Angry Lion is also very happy with his A-MVA (
link).
Q11) How do I check my display for 4:4:4 chroma sampling?
The "scientific" way is to use a small segment from the Belle-Nuit test chart, which can be found here:
link. (If you want the full Belle-Nuit test chart, you can find it here:
link). Make sure the image is at 100% zoom, and with the help of a magnifying glass (or the macro zoom of a camera, or if you have really good eyes) make sure the columns of red pixels look exactly like it does in this pic:
link. If it does, then you have proper 4:4:4 sampling.
The "quick and dirty" way is to use this simple color chart:
link. Pay close attention to the Red and Magenta columns. With a 4:4:4 capable display, the "Red" and "Magenta" text should be perfectly crisp and clear.
