Official LG XXLD450 Thread - Page 32

VGA tends to do that with higher resolutions. To help reduce that effect you need a VGA cable with some ferrite cores, the big round cylinders in this pic:



A better option would be DVI to HDMI or HDMI to HDMI connections.

as others have already indicated, that "tearing" is not a function of the tv, and this is the real reason why it isn't.

lcd televisions/monitors throw the entire image up on the screen all at once, so it's not physically possible for the tv to break up the image like that... further explanation below.

speaking in general, modern technology is rather complex, and most people don't have the time or energy to learn how it really works... i can't imagine how many televisions get returned because people don't know how to do simple things like set the gamma correctly.

"Scanning lines
On CRT-based TVs, the number of scanning lines measures the screen's resolution. Scanning refers to an electron gun tracing horizontal lines across a phosphor-coated screen, painting each video frame as a series of lines. Although you may still hear the term "scan lines" used when describing digital TVs that use plasma, LCD, or other pixel-based technologies, it's not really accurate. These newer TV types flash each complete screen image simultaneously without any type of actual scanning."

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3f3LpWL...ogressive_scan

I switched to the cable you mentioned and now the picture is perfect! Thanks for the help Im really happy with this tv now and in Vga mode it seems like the input lag is even lower so woot! lol glad there's some really smart people out there.

GAMMA SETTINGS will be dependant on the signal input being used; in other words, i'm not sure that you can set the proper gamma on the hdmi port, and expect it to be the perfect setting for the ota(over-the-air) tv input... for the latter, at least for now, i simply used the factory lg picture setting procedure, which also makes a good starting point for everything else.

for the hdmi port gamma setting, however, you MUST reference a standard, which i haven't seen anyone mention yet, and these are about the best i've found for setting computer monitor gamma... tv use is another subject altogether:

1)http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php
2)http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
3)http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php
4)http://www.normankoren.com/makingfin...tml#gammachart

setting #4 to the proper 2.2 gamma is very difficult on any lcd monitor, and on my rig, these are the only settings that get close to it... you have to use the video card settings in conjunction with the monitor settings, which afaik, no one in this thread has mentioned... there is no such thing as day vs. night viewing, because setting #2 requires a darkened environment; there is only one proper gamma setting:

my nvidia gtx460 sli, "Use Nvidia settings" checked:
brightness: 62%
contrast: 20%
gamma: +.57%

MONITOR:
Aspect Ratio: Just Scan
Energy Saving: Off
Picture Mode: ISF Expert1 (or Expert2)
Backlight: 8
Contrast: 77
Brightness: 83
HSharpess: 39
VSharpness: 39
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Noise Reduction: Off
Digi Noise Reduction: Off
Black Level: Low
Real Cinema: Off (locked)
Color Gamut: Standard(auto-adjusts itself, depending on input)
Edge Enhancer: Off
Color Filter: Off
Color Temp: Medium
Gamma: 2.4(for me, only 2.4 would allow #4 above to be set correctly)

but setting the monitor gamma to 2.4 has a really negative effect on the black level, which is where this monitor in particular, and lcds in general, are sooo weak... i had to compensate with the video card gamma settings control.

note that all of the test graphics can be downloaded; perhaps you do a lot of photoshop, which may alter the viewing environment, vs. trying to set the gamma by viewing the same graphics in the browser? i have not explored that yet, but it makes me wonder what happens to gamma when you are trying to set it with your blu-ray player software, on your htpc... fortunately the nvidia controls give you the option of overriding the video player gamma/color controls.

Ok so im about to pull the trigger on the 47 inch.
IM coming from my 65 inch 1080i mitsubishi rear projection crt (ws65517) there last line.

I play xbox 360 exclusivly, i already have a pc mionitor that does the job.

I would be buying a nice 65 inch $5k (tax return time) lcd tv.... however Input lag is extremely important to me.... so they get no money from me!

So after much forum lurking and googling, i found this thread and read as much of it as i could stand. I will be using it for games and using HDMI. my optical out goes straight to my receiver, so sound isnt very important to me on the tv.

can anyone tell me if im makinf the right decision? is there a beter more expensive tv with low low input lag?

TLDR..... 360> HDMI > LG 47D450 good? bad? better options? Critical info?

TopAce6--I can only answer one of your questions fully--the Xbox360 looks awesome on the 47 inch. Graphics are crisp and motion smooth; I've noticed no blurring or color shifting. Given you can buy this set for under $700 now, I think it's a great deal. I replaced a 50 inch Toshiba rear PJ TV with this and I've never regretted the choice. Hookup was easy for the 360--no problems at all. I'm sure there may be better sets out there, given that this is pretty much a budget model, but I find the picture to be excellent with great contrast (even if the blacks are not the blackest). You might also look at plasma--great performance, big screen for low $$, and burn in isn't really an issue with new models.

Best,

Brian

I was about to pull the trigger on one of these (32")today but the shop i walked into happened to be showing this clip to show the benefits of 120hz over 60hz sets. It was a clip showing long panning shots over a city showing rooftops and moving cars, then it switched to some countryside and wide ocean view shots. Basically a minute or so worth of panning shots being repeated over and over again.

Obviously the 120hz sets showed the clips perfectly smooth but the 60hz sets were really bad, a lot worse than I had expected. At first I thought it was some kind of trick video so I put in a low quality avi. of Planet Earth and skipped to the panning shots. They were indeed smoother on the 120hz sets than the 60hz sets but the odd thing was it was not nearly as noticeable or horrible as with the original clip from the store. I also thought it may have been from seeing them side by side with the "faster" tv's but i turned off the 120hz sets and left the ld450, Bravia ex400, Samsung C530 and a few other 60hz sets showing the original store clips and they were all equally unwatchable.

I don't know too much about this, my research for the past two months have been mostly about input lag and motion blur for gaming tv's. I didn't know much about this jerky panning movement until today and I've stared doing research on it, part of that research is trying to get as much input from actual owners who use this set how bad the judder (i'm pretty sure that's what it's called) really is in real life situations like movies, gaming and sports. Are there picture settings that help minimize this or settings like 24p? Perhaps the effects of the clip I saw was exaggerated by some other factor like the source?

I really want to buy this set but what I saw on those clips bothered me. I tired the 550 for gaming but i was able to feel a bit of input lag. Any input on this matter would be much appreciated.

dont trust a TV's picture in a shop showroom, they purposefully jack up the settings for the TVs to make them stand out.

most 60hz TVs nowadays dont have a problem with motion blur unless your watching things like sports, etc. even for that purpose they would probably be fine.

I thought that at first but all the 60hz tv's were equally unwatchable when showing the panning clips. I was also able to mess around with one of the samsungs (none of the the other remote's were available) and nothing I did improved what I saw.

I got my LG 47LD450 from amazon last week. It has a W in the model number and it passes the finger press test. The back panel does not have any stickers and my POS camera can't get the macro shot of pixels. So I'm 90% certain the panel is S-IPS, although it was manufactured in Mexico January 2011.

I've got two main grips with this TV.

The skins tones definitely have a yellow tint to them no matter what settings I use. I haven't seen any solutions for this in the forum so it looks like I'm screwed here.

The buzzing on this TV is horrific. My old Samsung buzzed too but it wasn't audible from 10ft away like it is with this LG. The best example is when I had this tv paused on a mostly black screen. The buzzing literally went high pitched for 5 or 10 seconds and then it dropped to a low but still loud hum . Backlight is set around 60 but that still should cause the light to buzz so loud.

Should I exchange this set for another one? Will a different set possibly solve the buzz issue? Are most 47'' IPS panels?

Check out the "White Skin Tones Too Yellow" section in the LD450 FAQ.


I have three 32" LD450's side by side and sit 2-3 ft away from each, and I don't notice any buzzing (my backlight is set to 70-75). But then again, a few others have mentioned this buzzing problem before, so it either means my ears have gone bad or its a random manufacturing defect. If you can, give my picture settings a try (Q2 of the FAQ) and see if the buzzing problem persists.

When you were at the store, did you enable Real Cinema mode on the LD450? According to the Real Cinema definition in the manual (link), it sounds like the LD450 is capable of displaying a true 48 Hz signal; thus removing the need for pulldown mechanisms (which is one of the cause of judder). So assuming the showroom video was true 24p material, with Real Cinema on, there shouldn't have been any judder at all.

Also, you can see what kind of video signal is being sent to the LD450 by hitting the Info button on the remote. A banner will pop up saying something like "1080p/60" or "1080p/24". The Real Cinema mode can be found in the Advanced section in the Menu.

As for my own personal experiences, I play PC/xbox360/ps3 games on the LD450 and don't notice any judder. With 24p bluray movies, I don't see any judder either. I don't watch TV, so I don't have any comment in this regard.

Looks like I can't change Real Cinema when using the EDID fix. (HDMI to HDMI)
I can change it when using a DVR with HDMI to HDMI.

If I remember correctly, there was an option in NVIDIA control pannel for 24hz refresh with no EDID fix.

I had a hearing test last month and I don't hear any buzz from the back of my 42. It is very silent. I would exchange it if it buzzed.

I'm not at my TV now so I can't validate this, but I think the Real Cinema mode is locked to the Aspect Ratio and/or Picture Profile settings. So if you switched to "16:9 / Movie" (or something like that), then you can switch on/off Real Cinema mode.

The only time I can change the real cinema settings when connected to my PC is with no EDID fix and setting the refresh rate to 24HZ.

Even then it didn't seem to do anything. I watched a 1920X1080P MKV with a 23.976 frame rate using PowerDVD 10. There was horizontal tearing @24HZ with real cinema on and off. Tried another MKV with the same FR and it had tearing also.

@ 60HZ it plays fine. I use PDVD 10 as it seems to have the smoothest video.
With the EDID fix, MKV's look grainy. I set the sharpness to 39. Still somewhat grainy.

I am going to do a little more testing to see if I can change some settings in PDVD10 to eliminate the tearing.

Only way to eliminate tearing @24Hz was to use MPCHC. And set in the options under playback-output, put a check in "Alternative VSync". It is definatly smoother than playing it at 60Hz. But you have to give up the EDID fix.

Also, real cinema did not seem to do anything @24Hz.

With the EDID fix, you can't have MPCHC change it to 24Hz. It only lists 59 and 60.

I wonder if there is a way to add 24P to that xxLD450_EDID_Override_Fix.inf? Maybe you can't have 4:4:4 @24? IDK

Thanks. I was only able to check the samsung tv since none of the other remotes were available. I'll check the LG today.

Does 24p only work with Bluray content I think I read somewhere it was an automatic feature? I still don't quite understand. I think the guy mentioned the source for the clip was not bluray but "close" to bluray quality. That's the best he was able to explain it in english. I assume it's some other type file that plays @ 24fps or some other frame rate the 60hz models have trouble playing.

I was using pcb's settings under expert. It looks like this gave me the worst yellow skin tones. I decided to use the picture wizard and cinema mode and I think the yellow is almost gone. The TV doesn't buzz when watching TV but when I pause on an all black screen the buzz gets really loud. I'll tweak expert mode some more to see if I can get rid of the yellow but right now I'm happy in cinema mode. Game mode looks great for my xbox.

Just wanted to confirm what doctorwizz said... Real Cinema mode can only be switched on/off if the TV is receiving a 24p signal. If receiving a 60p signal, Real Cinema is locked in the off setting.

However, unlike doctorwizz, I did not experience any video tearing when playing 1080/24p video (I used the video found here: link). This was tested using a DVI->HDMI connection (no EDID fix but still passed 4:4:4) with my PC set to 1920x1080 24 Hz resolution (verified by the Info banner on the TV) using Windows Media Player 11, Media Player Classic, and PowerDVD 10.

Switching back and forth between Real Cinema on and off didn't seem to make any difference, so I'm not sure what the mode does.

I get tearing in PDVD10 with that video. You have an ATI?

I have that vid paused and I can see a little flicker @24. It's not caused by that vid, but the 24Hz.

Funny how a lot of people never noticed the 60Hz flicker on a CRT monitor. They noticed it after I changed to 85Hz and back.

120hz does not offer any picture quality advantage over 60hz, it's all marketing garbage... whatever you saw was staged, in order to get you to pay more for nothing.

but don't take my word for it:

"The differences in motion blur between the 8 LCD HDTVs was not large. There were only minor differences between all of units. The reason is that the visible blur was considerably longer than the 60 Hz video frame rate, so it didn't matter whether the screen refresh was 60 Hz or 120 Hz, or whether the LED backlights were strobed off during the frame updating. Similarly, varying the electronic processing enhancements that some models offer, which are supposed to reduce motion blur, only served to introduce objectionable contours, edges and other artifacts onto moving objects without reducing the overall motion blur. In addition, there was no notable difference in motion blur between the top-of-the-line models (which all had 120 Hz refresh or LED strobing) and the mid-line models (which all had standard 60 Hz refresh), and which cost less than half of the high-end models.

...The conclusions from everyone that participated in the Shoot-Out were consistent across the board and will likely surprise most consumers: there was essentially no visually detectable motion blur on any of the LCD HDTVs in all of the extensive live video content that we assembled. When people thought they saw motion blur, with only a handful of minor exceptions, the blur was either in the source video or a temporary visual illusion that disappeared when the segments in question were reviewed. Unlike the moving test patterns and moving photographs, the eye is unable to detect the blur in live video because the images are much more dynamic and complex, and undoubtedly because of the way the brain processes and extracts essential information from visual images. The results were identical for all of the LCD HDTVs, regardless of whether they had 60 or 120 Hz refresh rates, strobed LED backlighting, or advanced motion enhancement processing."
http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Respo...e_ShootOut.htm

Yup, I have an ATI 5850 video card. I take it you have a Nvidia card?

With the video paused, I see no flickering whatsoever. Its literally a still image.

And you're probably going to hate me for this, but I just tried everything I did before on a HDMI->HDMI w/ EDID fix connection..... and my results are identical to my earlier DVI->HDMI results.

I even dug in my PowerDVD settings and changed several things around (enable/disable HW acceleration, enable/disable TrueTheater effects, etc) and it didn't make any difference. So I have no idea what's going on your side

Thanks for your input guys, I'd like to make a quick correction, the sets I'm actually looking at are 50 and 100hz models. I just typed in 60/120 because I know most of you are from North America and the last time I asked a question here I was referred to another (European) forum which was as helpful but had a lot less traffic. I'm don't think it makes much of a difference but if it adds to the confusion, I apologize.

So I went back to the store this morning. I asked the salesman to show the clip again, one thing I didn't notice yesterday was that the clip was titled Truemotion 240. I don't know if that really means anything but i got him to play another one on the menu titled Truemotion 100, the clip was of a panning shot across some store signs that filled the screen then another panning shot of some vegetables at some outdoor market. This time the difference was much less significant. The 50hz models were slightly blurry as they panned across the letters, blurry but readable and almost as smooth as the 100hz sets IMO.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea why the Truemotion 240 clip was so jerky on the 50hz set? Could it have been run at a different framerate or would it have more to do with the fact that there were more detailed scenes with the overhead views of rooftops and moving cars as opposed to the 100hz clip which was basically a sideways pan across some letters and some fruit.

is the 32LD450 the same as the 32LD490 in regards to the IPS panel, 4:4:4 and input lag?

I have an ATI and 24p real-cinema option is available with or without edid fix . I only get judder free playback when this is enabled. Difference is like night and day. But 24p by nature isn't as smooth as , let's say a 60p studio recording , but the 120hz sets in the store use some kind of interpolation ...but I prefer movies in the original 24p unaltered format .
You mentioned planet earth ...try the 1080,60i bluray instead of the 1080,24p one on the LG...you may be surprised.

I just got my 32LD450 today. What is the finger press test? Are IPS panel not supposed to change colors when it is added pressure?

Just purchased the 42LD450, and was wondering if anyone knows how to hook up the little receiver for a set of wireless speakers to this tv. Does not seem to be any audio outs on the back. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

Just got two 32LD450 tv's today. If it is any help to anyone, both were S-IPS panels. I Had the same issues with my 8800gt and lack of audio over 3.5mm as others; called LG, they did not have a clue.Tried a bunch of settings for both the lack of audio and poor text/color quality. Finally implemented the EDID fix linked on this thread and it worked immediately. Also, it rendered my previous calibration somewhat useless; but looks much better anyway. So, if it saves someone else time; if you have an Nvidia card, and things don't seem right off the bat, do the fix first.


Also, thanks for your help Continuum. Incredible display after editing the Nvidia info file.


And, one question. With all the recommended settings in the thread .......are there generally accepted baselines for calibration for those who applied the EDID fix to the Nvidia drivers? And, would you guys update the firmware?

Thanks

Gently press and run your finger across the screen. If there's a streak, then its a VA panel. If there isn't a streak, then its an IPS panel.


The only audio output on the TV is the optical out. So if your receiver as an optical input, use a toslink cable to connect between the two.


Nope, no general consensus for settings. I recommend using the settings in Q2 of the FAQ as a start and tweak from there. As for firmware, LG does not make them publicly available, so its a nonstarter

Oh I see. So the colors changing has nothing to do with it, right? My serial # has a W in it so I'm pretty sure it's IPS but I just wanted to make sure.