The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 337

If you only have 3 speakers connected, there's no reason to be pressing the A-DSX button as you don't have those speakers connected.

That makes sense about the A-DSX button- but doesn't it normally say 'Not Available' instead of 'Run Audyssey'?

Also, that doesn't explain the L/R Channel Level issue.

Here is a pic while I'm having the problem.

The pic doesn't really explain the issue as well as a video would, although if the flickering cannot be resolved, likely means a defective unit.

Looking at your other post I noticed it maybe newly purchased, if so you might be within the 30 day usual return policy.

Just curious does Channel Level for the FR always come up when flickering?

It flickers between FL and FR. Just imagine the R in FR changing to an L then back. I tried taking a few pictures, but I always ended up with just the FR showing.

Definitely not normal and I would take it back for a refund, or swap it out for a new one, or send it in for service under the warranty.

my friend is having problem wiht his 3311ci. He is using a dual subwoofer set up. How come when you start doing the audyssey the required setting to 74db for the sub is not shwoing? Isnt it that Audessey XT is the same for all brands using it> in the onkyo 809, setting the sub to 75 db level is the firts that will show in the display panel.

Nope ... AFAIK, that only happens on the Onkyo MultEQ XT models.

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone who is into retro gaming would be able to help me out with this question. I'm looking to buy an AVR-3311 locally in order to play my old video game systems (SNES, Genesis, N64, Saturn etc.). Does anyone have experience with connecting these systems via S-Video or Composite and having the video output via HDMI? Does this actually work? I tried my Saturn (with s-video) on my friend's 1911 but it did not work (I'm not sure if it's because the 1911 is unable to upscale to 1080p). Thanks!

The 1911 can both "upconvert" analog ---> HDMI as well as "upscale" to 1080p; however, older devices may not always work so if it didn't work with the 1911 it's not likely to work with the 3311CI either.

I was under the impression that the 1911 was only able to upconvert analog signals to HDMI but not upscale as it does not have video scaling. Regardless though, if you think the 3311 won't be able to help my situation then I think I should start looking into video processors rather than AVRs.

I I have not tried composite/S-video, but I have used the Xbox 360 component into 3311 (mine is an earlier 360 with component but not HDMI) to output at 1080p to my HDTV (which doesn't accept 1080p over component ) and it works. However, there were some artifacts and I went back to connecting the component from 360 to my TV at 720p or 1080i. You might want to try a resolution other than 1080p to see if that works.

The 3311 manual says this: "When a non-standard video signal from a game machine or some other source is input, the video conversion function might not operate."
Edited by Manic_D - 2/24/13 at 11:43am

thanks for the reply sir, so how do we set the subwoofer gain to get the 75db setting similar to howm Onkyo does it? is there a way to do it for the 3311ci?

Unless you have an SPL meter, it's basically trial and error... start out with the sub gain knob at 1/2 way... run 1 position and let Audyssey calculate... check the sub level trim in the parameter check... if it's extreme (e.g. -12) then tweak the gain knob on the sub and re-run.

Technically as long as you're not "maxed out" at +/-12 you are fine, but most people like to shoot for a more central value (e.g. +/-5) to give more wiggle room for adjustment.

been reading a lot about your audyssey guides batpig and i have learned a lot from it.

so your saying, I need to keep re-running until both subs basically would have the same level if i am not going to use SPL meter?

Oh, for a dual sub setup (didn't notice that part) it's even trickier. You want to level match them beforehand for sure. Are the subs identical? If so, then you can just set the knob at the same place for both subs and then use the procedure above (with both hooked up) to dial in the overall level. If the subs aren't identical then it gets trickier, and you might just want to pop for an SPL meter.

Without an SPL meter, if you want to use Audyssey to level match, you will have to use the procedure above with each sub SEPARATELY until they are both dialed in within a couple of dB's of each other.

Hi there batpig! Thanks for your reply. I am "the friend" that onkyo606 is referring to for this query. So I have a dual sub - both are SVS - one is a PB12-NSD and the other is the SB12-NSD. The latter is a new additon to my system. Both are connected to the 3311CI.

I ran the Audyssey last Feb. 23 and after calibration, the subs were both "boomy." Please see below:

Audyssey Calibration Notes: Feb. 23, 2013

Thumb pics - click the image to see the bigger picture.

Set subwoofer to 0.0db level and measured channel level of the sub using SPL meter.


Measurement of PB12NSD at 74db


Measurement of SB12NSD at 74db


******RAN AUDYSSEY CALIBRATION******

Step 5: Check - Speaker Configuration




Distance Check


Channel Level Check


Crossover Level Check


Step 6: Store Data


Finished! Dynamic Volume On? - Hell NO!


Parameter Check


Audyssey Check


EQ Check - L & R Front Speakers


EQ Check - Center Speaker


EQ Check - L & R Surround Speakers


EQ Check - L & R Surround Back Speakers


Manual Set-up


Speaker Set-up


Crossover Settings


Crossover "Advanced" changed speakers crossover setting to 100Hz


Bass Settings


After calibration, I tested the "new" settings and the bass was extremely boomy. According to your guide and I quote...

"Part of this could be caused by you simply not being used to hearing the full bass response when playing content at lower-than-reference volume. However, if you find it is constantly rumbling and boomy, it could be a problem.

If you have a '10 model or newer (i.e. anything ending in "0" or "1" such as 1910, 590, 891, 3311, etc) you can directly adjust reference level in the Audyssey Settings (either in the Parameter or Audio Adjust menu, depending on the model). This setting is known as "Reference Level Offset" and adjusting the reference level by 10dB (or even the max 15db) is usually the magic cure for boomy bass from your cable box. It is also very effective with music sources, which are typically mixed louder than movies, and setting the Offset value to 10 or 15 can help reduce boomy/bloated bass when listening to your favorite tunes."

So I accessed the Reference Level Offset of the 3311 and set it to 15db as you recommended above. The result was a lesser "boomy" output from the sub...but it did not eliminate it.

I adjusted the LPF knob on the PB12 and positioned it to the first hash mark - 45Hz and the boomy sound was gone. I noticed that only really low bass is what I hear and feel from the PB12.

Now the SB12 is boomy at this point. Outputting a strong rumbling mid bass, but is too overwhelming for my taste. But before I deal with that. I wanted to test --

1. What if as early as the initial level measurement of the sub, I adjust the LPF knob of the PB12 to 45Hz?
2. Will there be a different result?
3. However...thinking ahead, if I set the knob to 45Hz during sub levelling, won't that give me a very low reading on the SPL meter?
4. If the SPL reading is low on the PB12, won't that kill the sound coming from the SB12 as well when I try to match it?

Am I correct to assume that the LPF knob position directly affects the gain of the sub? Co'z if I am trying to match the PB12's 45Hz level reading on the SPL meter and try to reach 75db, won't that position the gain knob really high?

And on the SB12's LPF level at max, won't that position the gain knob substantially lower?

So I guess, my first real question is...in measuring equal sub levels for both the PB and SB12 before calibration, must they have the same LPF settings at the back respectively?

Over the past 6 months I've been listening to a lot of music for the first time in a long time and I had started to become less satisfied with my SVS sub. It has sounded fine to my ears for movies but the more I listened to music the more I was faulting the sub. When listening to music it goes deep and loud but it just didn't seem, I don't know......musical I guess, and it sounded boomy. I thought the boominess was because of it's placement in a corner.
Anyway I saw Batpig's reply to stickfighter instructing him to change the offset. I tried that and it made a big improvement on my system, sounds much less boomy to me with the offset @ 5db's and way less boomy @ 15 db's but that setting was too light for my taste.
I had no idea what the offset was for until I saw this post. I thought it had a bearing on the loudness at zero volume. I'd be lost without this forum.

Nice to hear the offset adjustment worked for you. I checked your HT pics...nice and neat. What SVS sub do you have Doug...is it a PC12NSD, PC12Plus or a PC13Ultra?

Thanks, I have a 10 year old SVS 25-31PCi for which I've been looking to find a matching mate for over a year. Now, after listening to more music I'm thinking about upgrading the sub. It seems there's been a lot of improvements in subs since I last bought one and I think I might like a more musical sub. Apparently my sub is somewhat of a dinosaur.

anyone done this...when I get my AVR-3311CI back from Denon, I want to do this for it, the Blu ray and HD DVD players, who are too far away for wired connection...

I haven't done this with my receiver specifically but I have solved this type of problem in the past for family and friends. What I did was buy a cheap wireless router and configure it as a wireless bridge. You would place this wireless bridge near your AVR and connect to its LAN ports.

cool, as per usual, BatPig has this covered on the 1st page of the AVR-xx12CI thread...

my 3311 died during the add new feature (AirPlay) operation...keeps attempting to up-date, but won't...how many times should I reset the processor before sending it back?

You could also use a WD LiveWire, it's worked flawlessly for me. (http://www.amazon.com/Livewire-Powerline-Network-Kit-200Mbps/dp/B003VWY0VY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362154024&sr=8-1&keywords=wd+live+wire)
Plug one end into your router and wall socket, plug the other end into your AVR and three other components and wall socket. It uses your electrical wires in your house as a hard wired ethernet cable.

called 855-MY.DENON

they had me hit the UP & DOWN buttons on the front panel cursor buttons while powering on...

let the display flash 5 times; called this a NETWORK CARD reset...it's attempting to UPGRADE now; will let everyone know...

if it works my wife will have a NEW AVR to replace the 12 year old SONY STR-DE 1075

Wow. Sorry for the delayed response but I can tell you that, in general, the time it will take me to respond is directly to propotional to the length of the post

Although not related to your question, when you decided to get a second sub, why did you choose to mate a SEALED version (SB12-NSD) to your ported PB12-NSD? Since these subs are similarly priced, why didn't you get the identical sub for the second one? The ported and sealed versions have different performance characteristics and output capabilities, so it would have made more sense to get a perfect match. Did you consult with SVS before making this decision?


Well, of course. You have opened up a huge gap between the speaker crossover and the subwoofer. You set the speakers to a 100Hz crossover, and then you turned down the LPF on the sub itself to 45Hz. This means the receiver is redirected bass below 100Hz to the sub, but the sub itself is filtering out everything above 45HZ.... so the 45-100Hz range is gone! So you didn't do anything to cure the underlying cause of why there is boomy bass, you simply removed the symptom by filtering out most of the bass.


LPF and gain (volume) are really different things. Again, the LPF is a filter that removes a portion of the frequency range from what the sub reproduces. It won't change the average SPL, it will just remove a portion of it.


As per the Audyssey guide, both subs should have their LPF's either defeated (bypassed) or maxed out if a bypass mode isn't available. I assume nice subs like those SVS should have a LPF bypass mode. The point is that you don't want the filters from the subs interfering with the bass management in the receiver. The subs should be set to full range (no LPF), and then the receiver (processor) determines what gets to them.

The point here is that the cause of the boomy bass is unrelated to the LPF setting. There is something else going on, and it's hard to diagnose without measurements. My assumption is that there is some boomy room modes, and possibly repositioning the subs will create a smoother response.

No problem sir, but thank you in advance for your reply.

I decided to get the SB12 as an addition to the ported sub, so that I can get more of the mid bass "kick" in terms of movie viewing. As for the music side of it, sealed subs are better subs for music than ported ones.

That's right! So now that the ported sub is taking care of the low bass response, the sealed sub is taking control of everything else. However, the bass is still boomy on the sealed sub. It comes out a bit strong for my taste.

Ok...I did not know that. It's just that I noticed as I lowered the LPF knob to 45Hz on the sub, the SPL reading dropped. And since I was going after the 75db level, the turn on the Gain knob went really high, just for me to reach 75db on the SPL.

I strongly believe that placement maybe the issue here. I posted my calibration to check and ask you if there is something I might have left out in calibrating the system. So I guess I would have to play around with the placement of the subs and see where the best result is.

Thanks again for your time and knowledge in replying to my query.

Ah, so this was indeed an *intentional* maneuver to try and use the sealed version as the "mid bass module" of sorts, and the ported sub as a dedicated "ultra low" driver. Understood.

With this type of setup you want to optimize as much as possible BEFORE running Audyssey. Audyssey has no bass management function where it can control the two subs separately... all it "sees" is one subwoofer when it measures. Audyssey is creating a combined EQ filter for the summed response of the two subs, so if you run Audyssey with both fully open and then turn down the LPF after Audyssey, the combined response is now different and you are no longer operating in a well EQ'd bass environment. So you need to get everything configured as best as possible prior to running Audyssey, and then when it is optimized,

The honest truth is that this is a difficult setup to configure properly. The old "garbage in / garbage out" adage applies here... Audyssey can only work with what it has and the better the setup is BEFORE you run Audyssey, the better the final results. Ideally you would have some actual measurement software that would allow you to see how the subs interact, and get the best response prior to running Audyssey. In the absence of this, I think your first step needs to be optimizing the location of the sealed sub since that's the one that will be handling the load of the bass that you actually HEAR. If you haven't yet, google "sub crawl" and you can find some advice on selecting a good location. Once the sealed sub is optimized and providing smooth, even output at the listening zone, then you can add in the ported sub with the LPF set low as a ultra-low frequency "enhancer".

But bottom line it will probably require some legwork to get this unorthodox setup working right.


Ah, now that I think about it I realized the issue here. SPL meters are simply not very accurate in reading low frequency signals. Most SPL meters have a "correction table" which allows proper readings with a restricted frequency signal. When you do a normal SPL measurement on a full bandwidth pink noise type signal, the reading is right, but when you restrict it to 45Hz and below the meter is probably just not reading it properly. So the SPL isn't changing, just the ability of the meter to read it. So you should set SPL with the LPF set wide open, and then adjust the LPF afterwards and not touch the gain knob.

Mine still wouldn't update, so off to DENON it goes.

Refer to my post #3 in the Denon AVR-XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig as I have this covered.