The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 5

Because doubling the power output only results in a 3db increase ....

1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256 (each doubling of power results in 3db increase)

so if going from 64W to 128W results in an increase of only 3db, then going from 105W to 125W would result in < 1db gain. This is also why if you want more power you don't upgrade from a 105W to a 125W AVR, rather you would want to add an external amp that is at least 250W or more, but even then, as noted above, you're still only looking at a 3db increase. In most cases adding an external AVR isn't going to do much more than what the AVR can do itself (unless using 4 ohm speakers, then it's pretty much required for louder volumes).

Okay, I tried to find some screen shots of the Graphical User Interface (GUI) for the 3311CI, and I can't find any. Never having owned or used a Denon, I don't even know what any of it looks like.

I did find THIS post from the 3310CI thread that shows the volume overlay on the screen. Does anyone have any shots of the 3311 or another model that is confirmed to have the same (or very similar) GUI?

Also doubling your speakers gains you 3db,also does not the speakers specs also come into play,sensitivity/spl roomsize,location etc...has anybody around here do such an upgrade and notice any difference? a 1909ci to a 2310 or 3310ci

You people really down play amp power output, more power is always better even if its just 10 real watts. The big reason for small grains in power output per channel when you move up in the models is that there adding to 5, 7 or 9, 11 channels so the total is much higher. Your only fooling yourself if you think 125w won't sound any better than 90w per channel, unless you only use headphones or your speakers are pisspoor.

I dont' think that more power will add anything important for the sound.
What is more important for me is the consistent that a receiver/amp can output to all speakers during the transmission of the sound to the speakers.
What is good to have 200W but fails miserly to deliver sound to all speakers at the same time??



The Yamaha 767 has dual hdmi independent outputs for a stealer price!!!

What would you use "dual hdmi independent outputs" for. Yamaha is one of the worse for all channels driven, this unit if history means anything will only pump out 30 watts per channel X 7 20-20k

This pic illustrates the difference between the Denon line GUIs. The 3311 GUI appears to be the same as the 3310.
http://www.synergysav.com/files/Denon-OSD.bmp

The GUI only overlays on some of my sources, but not BluRay. It's supposed to overlay on everything except a 3D source, which I don't have. I've tried playing with the video convert and i/p scaler settings per batpig's faq, with no luck. I'm going to try different HDMI ports to see if that changes anything.

Here's BatPig's faq, which provides an overview of the Tier1-3 OSD/GUIs.
http://www.batpigworld.com/fadq.html

GUI is no big deal, once your HT is setup its not used much, as for needed level tweaks when watching a movie, I really don't need to see or have anyone else be annoyed when I tweak the sub, change the center or other on-the-fly changes.

They dont seem to want to explain the audio difference in there brochure material. Let's face it, they dont want to spend the money to work around the copy protection and the bit about the switcher is a bad argument, because I'm not asking for separate audio videos, I'm asking for dual audio and I'm pretty certain, that's a software issue. At the very least, it should be a combo output, not split to start with.

If it were not for copy protection, you would only need to have an on/off to the TV audio.

No I won`t. I got it actually for 28% off with shipping.

Congrats on your new purchase! Perhaps you can give the thread some feedback as you setup the 3311. How did you get such a deep discount? Employee discount?

not if you listen at volumes where you only use less than 5 watts/channel

if you are ACTUALLY using that type of power, driving speakers of medium efficiency to near-reference volumes, then you are correct. but you CANNOT make a blanket statement like that, you have fallen into the myth that better speakers need "better" power. What matters is their SPECS, you ROOM, and your LISTENING VOLUME.

most people have 88dB+ sensitive speakers in medium sized rooms, and are listening at 10-20dB below reference level even when cranking it up for movie night. Even lower for "typical" listening. That requires very little power..... and if your situation calls for a ton of power (e.g. big room, big volumes, inefficient speakers), the difference between 90 and 110 watts isn't going to be the "deal breaker".

No I just bought a 58vt25 and a panasonic 350 3d blu-ray player(which I might also sell)once the ps3 can play 3d movies,now to sell my avr-1909.

I like the option of more power for when I go deaf,or listening to music,should I rest the MP before selling???

Thanx, but Yamaha just isnt Denon. No slight meant.

How does the pioneer SC-35 compare to the 3311ci? Does pioneer let u use the scaler on hdmi outputs? I know previous models was pass thru only. How does qdeo Marvell processor compare to anchor bay 2015? Is ice power all that? How about MCACC vs Audyessy? I own a pioneer tv if that matters.

Electronics Expo has a sale going on now using code SUMMER35 which will get you 24% off MSRP on the 3311!

Holy Crap!, Just order one (unintentionally) trying to see whats the final shipping cost which happens to be free Nice deal..

Wow I haven't own a Denon AVR in some time.

Djoel

Wow! That did it. I jumped on that deal too!!!

Looking at the specs for the 3311 on the Denon website, I see a "-" instead of a checkmark next to "HDMI SACD support." Does that mean I wouldn't be able to play SACDs with my Oppo if it is connected via HDMI?

It means the 3311 does not have a SACD decoder, so you would need the Oppo to decode the SACD and send as PCM over HDMI.

It's interesting, I have my OPPO 83 set to output SACD and connected to the 3311 via HDMI only. SACD's play with no issues but when I check the audio input signal on the info menu of the 3311 it displays PCM 88khz.
I guess the OPPO knows somehow that the 3311 won't decode SACD.

DreamCatcher

It will also display album artwork when using Pandora which I wasn't expecting.

This is my first receiver (working one) so I'm excited. I actually bought 2 3310's back to back and neither one of them worked. After the second one I decided to wait until the new 3311 came out. So far it's amazing and worth the wait.

I just had a question about configuring my subwoofer since this is my first home theater system. I am using a Klipsch SW-350 subwoofer that offers Low Pass Crossover and Low Pass control. Low pass crossover is for general purpose input and accepts LFE signal output of receiver. Low pass control allows you to select the upper frequency cutoff of subwoofer and frequencies above the control are filtered out allowing you to blend output with main speakers. Frequency is selectable from 40-150 HZ.

What is the best way to set this up? I'm not certain if my subwoofer has a direct mode or not and what all of this means. Does the Auyssey auto setup take care of everything or do I need to make changes on the subwoofer?

A great place to start is BatPig's Denon/Audyssey FAQ: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

I don't have my 3311 yet, and this will be my first Denon/Audyssey, but I think I have a pretty good grasp of things thanks to that FAQ and some other experience I have, so here is my attempt at answering your questions:

If you use the subwoofer output of the Denon, you should not need to use the crossover or low pass control in your sub. If you can turn that stuff off completely, that would be "direct mode" (your best option) and if you cannot turn it off, just set the crossover to the highest frequency it has which allows it the widest range of sound.

Then let Audyssey do it's magic. If Audyssey sets any crossovers to something higher than 80Hz, leave it, but if it sets any lower than 80Hz, raise it up to 80Hz and set your all your speakers to "small". Done. Enjoy your calibrated system.

If anything in the sound bugs you on any of your sources, consult the FAQ for common issues and their solutions.

this is one of the actual benefits of HDMI -- it's a 2-way communication, with each device reporting its capabilities to each other, so the Oppo actually DOES "know" that the AVR will not accept DSD so it automatically decodes to PCM.

Would someone report the following:

- Connect PS3 via HDMI, auto audio & video setup (e.g. 7.1 CH LPCM, 1080p), leave PS3 in the menu (idle)
- Connect your headphones to 3311
- Crank up the volume until you can just start to hear faint buzz/noise
- Report back the volume level

For reference, on my 2310 I start to hear the presence of the noise at -25dB.

If video conversion is on, the noise becomes 10dB louder, so it can be heard starting at -35dB volume (with headphones).

I'm considering trading up to 3310/3311/991 if it performs noticeably better.

Just wondering what your reason is to changing or not changing the crossover frequency set by Audyssey. Unless you're changing it just to be in line with the THX spec, the crossover frequency is not arbitrary. It is dependent on your specific room and equipment. If audyssey sets a crossover to 60hz, it does so for a reason and may set up filters to smooth the response according to that crossover. If you change the crossover to a higher frequency, those filters may no longer be applied correctly. If you don't trust what Audyssey came up with and you want to change the crossover, I would suggest having some type of measurement system or plenty of listening tests to see if the change is for the better.

-Mike

Mike - have you read through the Audyssey section of my FAQ linked above? Your understanding is off on a few things....


this is FALSE. Audyssey simply measures your speakers and reports the results back to the receiver, which actually DOES make an arbitrary decision on crossovers, setting them at the lowest point above the measured roll-off. Audyssey is NOT in control of the crossovers in the consumer implementation; thus, do not assume you are getting an "optimized" crossover set for smoothest response. Audyssey specifically recommends this procedure of raising crossovers that are set too low by the receiver, since the subwoofer channel filters are much higher resolution, and many receivers will set the crossovers very low (or worse, set the speakers to "large").


this is also FALSE. The filters are INDEPENDENT of the crossovers. Audyssey filters all speakers across their entire operating range, regardless of where the crossover point is set. Again, have you read that section of my FAQ? The only risk of losing out on the filters would be if you LOWER them significantly.

I've been looking, off and on, at replacing my AVR-3300. Right now I only use it for audio, except for a VCR. My only HD source is an OTA STB. The main thing is I am using a (getting old but nice) Pioneer Elite Pro RP CRT TV which has DVI + HDCP inputs @ 1080i (and many analog but I am willing to go all digital).

Right now I am using HDMI - DVI cables from my HD STB and also an SD DVR. Will that setup work on the 3311ci such that I can connect both units to the AVR and run the HDMI - DVI cable from the AVR to my Pioneer TV? I've never had any HDCP problem with a couple different stbs, but maybe from the AVR it would be more of a hassle? No doubt someday I would get a BD but connecting one of those isn't a deal killer right now.

My end goal would be to connect the VCR (S video/stereo), a CD/DVD (component/optical (preferred) or coax), a DVDR (HDMI), a phono (MM) and an HD OTA STB (HDMI/optical coax) as inputs with HDMI-DVI as the only output (aside from a couple of stereo audio sources and tape monitor or out to DVDR)

So it seems the AVR 3311ci would meet this requirement, unless the HDMI-DVI is a problem?

scott s.
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