The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 58

So lovswr, did you have to re-do the Audyessy set-up after updating the firmware?

Yes, I meant "theoretical", and not "scientific". Good catch!

Thanks SoundofMind. Yes, we can't trust the power specs of Denon and many others, so was asking. I wish they'd take a page from HK.

I thought the power consumption gives you an indication about the quality of the power supply (just the way weight helps), obviously no accurate idea can be gotten and hence the need for professional reviews.

For music, I'd be using a pair of Polk RTi A5 and I believe the rated output of 125W per channel (2 channels driven) is quite close, if not accurate. And 125W would be plenty for these speakers (even if I move these to a large family room later).

The problem is with my inefficient center and surround speakers (86db) and I'd need about 32W per channel (from my rough calculations) to bring these to the reference level. Now I don't want the receiver to operate near capacity for 2 hours (average movie length and if I am the only one in the neighborhood) at a time, so if 3311ci can deliver about 60-70W per channel, I believe it'll reduce the probability of heat related issues or even premature failures.

I do have plans to upgrade the center as well and this will help for sure, but just trying get an idea about the constant power output capability of midrange Denon receivers with similar power supply. Thanks.

I think you misunderstood. SoM was saying that you can trust the power specs that Denon states, because they are not known for overstating the power specs. Often when tested Denon's perform better than the advertised power specs.

Ah yes, you are right I thought he meant otherwise because we know this receiver is not capable of producing 125W per channel all channels driven.

I'd also like to add to my previous post that the speakers I use are all 8Ω.

Is it possible to input toslink and output the same digital signal via toslink again to have an external DAC take care of the D/A process? If possible, does anyone know how this is practically set up on the receiver?

Hi all my first long winded post,
I came across this forum and thread while Googling the Denon 3311ci receiver. This forum and thread have a lot of info. Please bear with me if some of these questions have been asked before. I have search the thread but I have not read all fifty some pages. I started out looking at the Onkyo NR808 but after some limited research; talking to friends and audio/video sales folks I started looking at the Denon 3311ci. Just about all the sources indicate that the Denon is a better quality built receiver, however I would like your expert opinions as to why this is? Is this going on past products or current model comparisons? My last HI FI research was done in the late 70's and early 80's. Even in the 80's Denon had the reputation of being a cut about Pioneer (did not take much in the 80's) and Onkyo. BTW I still have the Pioneer SX980 from the late 70's. Sorry for the boring background, but I wanted you to understand where I'm coming from with quality (For example Pioneer of 70's == great quality; Pioneer of the 80's == crap). I have both so I feel I can state that .
Here are my questions:
1) Are all these receivers made in China?
2) Build quality of the Onkyo viruses the Denon:

a. Weight of Onkyo is at 40lbs were the Denon is at 27lbs
Although I have not seen the Denon 3311CI yet (no one seems to have it on display), I have seen the 991. The heat sinks in the Onkyo have thick aluminum heat sinks were it appears the Denon has thin sheet metal type of heat sinks. The Onkyo's power consumption is slightly more than the Denon 3311 at 710 versus 670 watts for the Denon. Does the 3311 have heaver heat sinks than the 991? The overall weight of the 3311 does not indicate that it does. Your thoughts on this?
b. The Onkyo has a bushed aluminum front panel were the 991 does not. However I was told that the 3311ci has an aluminum front panel although I did not see that noted in the differences on the front page of this thread. Anyone confirm?
c. While at Fry's working on a migraine from information overload and noise, I asked a few employee's about reliability on their floor models. Neither was golden, Denon's on display had amp channels die out but those were on their lower three digit models and Onkyo network and a few HDMI issues. While listening to some KEF speakers I noticed the rear left surround was not working and they guy said yep another Denon dead channel. That was a lower level receiver though. I read a few posts in this thread about folks getting no output from their 3311 but no follow up as to what happened. After being bit hard in the 80's with Poineer, I do not want to deal with reliability issues again and that is why I'm leaning toward the Denon. Any thoughts?
d. Knobs. I really liked the knobs on the older Denon's with the light clicking and easy rotation of the knobs. The 991 seemed a little cheaper quality than the older model. Does the 3311ci have the same knobs as the 991? Your thoughts on the newer knobs?

I want to thank those who posted about getting a better price by calling. I was getting depressed looking on line and only seeing list prices for these products.
Thanks again for you help

Well, I did it. I ordered the 3311ci from EE. I had started out trying for the 991, but the 3311ci was just a better deal. I'm guessing the 991 release date being later has prevented them from proliferating the marketplace much, thus major discounts aren't there.

EE was a pleasure to work with and the deal was great. They beat the only quote (in dollars not percentages)I got on the 991 with the 3311ci. Nice people to do business with.

There is a huge amount of content in film/TV assigned to CC. So a new CC would be great as it is far less expensive to upgrade a CC than to buy big power amps and if you get a Polk CC (which will no doubt be over 90dB sens) you will timbre-match to your FR/L. I wouldn't really worry about the inefficient surrounds much as they carry so much less content.

But 32W/Ch? Geez, how far back do you sit and how loud do you listen? I estimate you shouldn't need 10 watts to reach reference 85dB at 10' back, even with that low sens CC. As you know, sens=dB output/1watt input, measured @ 1m distance. Try this watts needed for SPL calculator. Also take into account that you will be experiencing the pooled SPL of all the speakers in your MLP.

I just updated my avr to the newest firmware... Everything went well. I dont see any different, nor improvement. Anybody know what is included in this update?? thank you

Thanks JDSMoothie. Yes, i was pressing AMP first. Unplugging for 10 min worked. Display functions are back to normal. Thank you!!!

Well, it didn't fix the inability to pause music when using the music library.

When my new 3311 arrives its final resting place will not have a network connection for a while so I'll take into the office room first and hardline it to the router for a fw update (I'm assuming it will need one if they are just now pushing an update).

My question is will this be obvious to run the fw update from the 3311 display without dragging my bedroom tv in to hook up as well? It would be simpler to plug the Ethernet cable, power it up, and perform the update before installing in the living room.

I'd like to know the same thing. Does Denon post release notes anywhere?

Yes, the center is on my list. I don't care much for timbre matching (I don't hear any timbre mismatch between my RTi A5 and the Cambridge Soundworks center), will mostly get it for the looks. A5 has slightly less sensitivity but

I'll probably sit at around 12' from the screen (right now at 10 ft my wife thinks the 106" screen looks too big). This is the calculator I used. I was looking for about 20/25db headroom over 85db for the blasts to sound real without stressing the amp too much with these values -

No nothing changed, but your question intrigued me so I re-ran Audyessy anyway.

I would use 95-110W as a reasonable estimate for "amplifier rated power per channel, expressed in watts" in that calculator, but it all comes out at about 105dB at 12' for 7 ch. Damn loud. But I really don't know if they are assuming all channels driven equally, which would only be the case for 5/7 ch stereo mode. BTW, I recommend this placement, including bringing the FR/L out equidistant to FR/L and widely placed in a semicircle at 30 degrees off center, if there is sufficient WAF. I managed it with some plant camo, gradually easing them away from the back wall. BTW, IMO surr rears get so little content they will not do much for you, especially if you have well placed capable surrounds with MultEQXT. I would go for DSX wides, or heights, but WAF is poor for that.

This is sad. Do they know about this issue? Is there a place to report the bugs to Denon online?

Can 3311CI really produce 95-110W per channel for all 7 channels? I increased the power rating in that calculator to achieve 105-110db at the listening position. Yeah, it's too loud but this would not be the average loudness... only for "sky is falling" effects I don't know if they take all the channels into consideration for the "dB SPL at the listening position".


I saw those dolby setups before, unfortunately my current room wouldn't allow these. I am assuming with these receivers with audyssey, positioning is not a big issue anymore (unless the room is extremely odd in shape). My surrounds are not bad (CS MC105) but can't keep up with the RTi A5s for sure. I had to balance them at +5db to compensate for the loudness (just by hearing so it may not be accurate). I currently use an HTPC with Asus Xonar card and an amp, no receiver. MultiEQ XT is the main reason why I am considering a receiver. Also I want to add the TV and Wii to the speakers.

My current setup doesn't allow for heights or wides either, but in my future setup I am planning to add the wides and have both wides and surrounds in-wall. Just the fronts, sub and center being obtrusive - my wife probably wouldn't mind that

You got a very nice setup, what speakers are these? They look great.

Hi, My Denon Makes big sound when i swith on . I did not have this problem with onkyo. I tried 2 denon 3311ci and both have same issue. Is it going to harm my speakers ?

Are you hearing this "big sound" from the 3311 or from your speakers? If from the speakers, does it come from ALL the speakers? What volume (db) does the 3311 power on at? Have you checked your speaker wiring to ensure it's connecting correctly at every speaker post? What speakers do you have connected?

As you originally requested, it would be nice to see some bench tests. But again, keep in mind that for real-world HT listening, it doesn't actually need to do that.


Thanks, those are all Polk, RT800i towers FR/L, CS 400i Center, and RC 55i surrounds inwall (see photo below). Not expensive, but it sounds expensive. With MultEQXT those little direct firing surrounds sound amazing and I really don't miss the big Fx 300i's I had on-wall. BTW, watching "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs", a rare behind-the-MLP effect on the Mayor's voice was perfect despite no rear surround(s). No matter how I trimmed my old Sony AVR the sub and surrounds never came close to what Denon/Audyssey does. This will be a huge upgrade for you.

Those of us without the luxury of a dedicated HT room must work within considerable constraints. So yes, MultEQXT does work wonders compensating for the speaker's placement in the room and the room's acoustics. But be aware that speaker and sub quality and placement still make a big difference regardless. So by bringing the fronts out in a semicircle I get a more seemless enveloping surround bubble effect, even without DSX wides. And with the speakers closer (all fronts now at 9' instead of 11-12') I am more "near-field" and less subject to room reflections, thus hear more detail and clarity. And with my puny 40" display, I am certainly not too close visually. With the sub out of the corner (hidden behind the plant by the guitar) the bass is smooth and punchy.

Hint: if you want to go for max SQ, move your speakers, sub and listening positions to closest to ideal position that you think she will accept, run autosetup and then do the "reveal" for her as a finished package with her favorite BluRay concert or movie with a nice soundtrack. If she's at all into SQ she'll be impressed, and you're golden. If she wants you to move them back, so be it. Just run autosetup again and enjoy.

jdsmoothie, just wanted to say thanks for all your help. I connected the marantz and adjusted the volume as you recommended and have everything is working perfectly. I love this forum b/c of helpful members such as yourself. Thank you!

When listening to internet radio such as Pandora, does the 3311CI output video to the monitor as well, e.g. song titles and album art? Thanks!

Yes it does!

Thanks!

I am using Polk RTI series speakers. Sound comes from All speakers. I have same speakers and My onkyo-808 did not make any sound. The volume of denon is set at 55 when it powers up. Might be i need to reduce it.

Just finished the new system upgrade via the net. Did anyone ever get the particulars on what is in this new update? Doesn't Denon provide a list of what their updates do or solve? Seems a professional group would be more proactive at this.

Any of you experts that track this more closely have any inkling as to what was upgraded, or maybe if there are any Denon people lurking they might chime in for us.

Just got the update message as well. That was literally my FIRST thought when I saw taht pop up was if I would have to re run audyssey. Which I really do NOT wanna do, it's kinda loud around here with kids, it's hard to find a good quiet time to do it.

But you are saying that it did indeed keep all of your measurements and settings from the first time you ran audyssey?

I was having a problem using plugplayer on my iPad I use it to steam my music from my pc thru my network to my 3311 and the app was always locking up. Then I notice the update for the 3311 I did the update and everything works great. Also I did notice that the update alway appeared when I was in the net mode on the 3311 not sure if the update was for Internet but it did fix my problem