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The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 8

post #211 of 10228
6/28/10 at 9:33am
Here is a general question for you long-time Denon fans:

Is the excitement/interest in the AVR-3311CI on par with other new Denon releases, or has this particular unit hit an unusually sweet quality/feature/price point?

From my point of view this seems like the perfect balance of all 3, but then again I would not have ordered one if I thought there was anything better for the same money. But I’m getting the general sense that Denon has done something special here, and that the excitement level over this particular unit is above average.
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post #212 of 10228
6/28/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dools767 View Post

I have a Motorola cable DVR box and it has two audio output settings, Dolby Digital (AC3) or PCM. It also has a dynamic range setting from narrow to wide. Would you suggest setting it to PCM and perhaps dynamic range for optimum quality? I notice since I changed it to PCM it says the PLII Cinema on the cable box as opposed to Dolby Digital.

the fact that it says PLII CINEMA means that you are getting a TWO CHANNEL input signal and the receiver is using Pro Logic II (Cinema Mode) to matrix a simulated 5.1 channel output from the 2.0 channel input.

if you want to understand how surround modes work, the most important thing to grasp is understand what the INPUT SIGNAL is that the AVR is receiving... that is what determines what surround modes (what you see on the display) are available.

when you don't understand what is happening, learn to check the input signal information. There are lights on your display -- the boxes on the left show input channels (i.e. what the receiver is getting) and the boxes on the right show output (i.e. the speakers that are being sent a signal). You should also open up the GUI (or press the "status" button on the unit to check on the little display) and go to Information > Audio Input Signal.

with your cable box set to "PCM", it is sending a 2-channel stereo output. The correct setting for a modern digital unit is "Dolby Digital" so the receiver can get the full multichannel signal, and will then read "Dolby Digital" on the display. Note that some channels and/or commercials will still be in 2-channel, in which case you will still see "PLII CINEMA" on the display.

Again, when you are confused, use the information that the receiver is giving you. You should also read through the Audio section of my FAQ: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio
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post #213 of 10228
6/28/10 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post

Dynamic EQ works great in my setup, but I'm still on the fence on if I need Dynamic Volume or not.

Dynamic EQ is generally an "always on" sort of thing if you want to hear "reference" tonal balance. You can tweak the strength of the effect with the Reference Level Offset, very useful for cable boxes or most contemporary music. It does not restrict the dynamics at all, just keeps the bass and surround field sounding rich and full at lower volumes. There are certain input sources (e.g. video games, especially FPS types) that can screw up Dynamic EQ, in which case it can be turned off.

Dynamic Volume however is strictly a "use it only when you need it" type of technology. For some people, who may have a large room with good acoustics and no restrictions on volume / dynamics from their system, it may NEVER be needed. For others (like me) who may not have a living situation where they can "unleash" their system, it might be on nearly all the time.

Personally, I use it 100% of the time for TV and movies; I live in a townhouse with shared walls (or a wife upstairs ) and really never get to fully crank it, and I can just pop it into "Day" mode when I want to let things rip a little bit. But 99% of the time I do need to watch the volume a bit, and I would be jumping for the volume on the remote constantly if I didn't have it on. As I say often, the biggest credit to Dynamic Volume is that, when set to "Evening" mode, I can literally watch an entire movie with my wife without touching the volume one time!

Basically, if you find in a given situation that you are constantly adjusting the volume during movies or shows (e.g. you turn it up to hear dialogue and then have to turn it down when the action starts) then you should use Dynamic Volume. The "Day" setting is very mild.... the strongest "Midnight" setting is quite restrictive of dynamics and probably only gets used in rare situations by most people.
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post #214 of 10228
6/28/10 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyjock View Post

does the 3311 have a game mode to reduce input lag when gaming?

all the new xx11 Denons have a new setting for "Video Mode" with one called "Game"... this setting can be set by input (under Input Setup > Video), for example you can see this on page 70 of the 3311CI manual (available for download here).

while they do not explicitly describe this section, it can be assumed that the "game" mode will reduce some processing delay. at the expense of what? who knows!

the fact that the manual also says that engaging "game" mode for video can reduce audio sync with Zone 2 (a common issue, where the digital processing in Main Zone causes a delay relative to Zone 2) is further "Denon-ese" evidence that this mode reduces input lag.

we don't yet have any actual user feedback on the effects of this mode.
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post #215 of 10228
6/28/10 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

Here is a general question for you long-time Denon fans:

Is the excitement/interest in the AVR-3311CI on par with other new Denon releases, or has this particular unit hit an unusually sweet quality/feature/price point?

From my point of view this seems like the perfect balance of all 3, but then again I would not have ordered one if I thought there was anything better for the same money. But I’m getting the general sense that Denon has done something special here, and that the excitement level over this particular unit is above average.


sorry to burst the bubble but this is really no different than any other year it just depends which model in any given year is generating the buzz. you may biased comparing the 3310 (which was a bit of a dud) to the 3311, which DOES hit a better "sweet spot" in terms of features for the dollar than did the 3310 (which was way overpriced).

in my experience, every year, when Denon introduces the new lineup, certain models generate the buzz whereas others miss the mark in features/dollar. you can get a rough proxy for this by looking at the length of the respective owner's threads....

- two years ago, there wasn't even an owner's thread for 1609/1709 (which didn't even have HDMI audio) whereas the 1909/789 was incredibly popular.... and the 2309/889 not so much, since it didn't really offer any compelling upgrades over the 1909/789. People who wanted to step up found that spending a bit more for the 2809/989 was the way to go.

- last year, Denon rectified this by making the 2310/890 more clearly differentiated from the 1910 (adding GUI and high-end video processing), and both were very popular... but then totally missed the mark with the 3310, on which they tried to jack up the price (essentially by cutting the 28xx and 38xx level then trying to price it near the 3808) while cutting some "audiophile" features like MultEQ XT and SACD decoding, in addition to moving it to China for production and slicing some weight vs the 2809/989 it replaced. problem was, consumers were wise to it, and $1499 was a bit ridiculous for msrp.... most people just jumped right to the 4310 for the much more compelling and fully formed featureset.

This year, the 3311 looks to be restoring the credibility of the 2809/989 level as a clear step up from the 23xx model. They brought back MultEQ XT and have added some nice new features, and hopefully fixed the networking... while only sacrificing some legacy inputs which only serve a few niche buyers. Plus they dropped the price back to the $1199 level of the 2809.... all told, the 3311 is indeed a "buzz leader" in this years model lineup -- the 19xx and 23xx models really having nothing new beyond HDMI 1.4. However, it's not generating any more buzz than the "buzz leader" would in any other year.

To me, however, the most compelling value proposition may be the yet-to-be-released AVR 991 model. Early press releases had it at a $999 msrp, and if it offers 95% of the 3311CI featureset for barely more than the 2311CI, it could be an awesome bargain at typical "street" pricing.
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post #216 of 10228
6/28/10 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bvader View Post

Just bought from Electronics-Expo, just couldn't pass up on the price.

coupon does not work for me???
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post #217 of 10228
6/28/10 at 10:43am
Might want to call Electronics Expo then .....
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post #218 of 10228
6/28/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmscs View Post

coupon does not work for me???

Looks like they killed the coupon for the 3311. Oh well.
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post #219 of 10228
6/28/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

sorry to burst the bubble but this is really no different than any other year it just depends which model in any given year is generating the buzz. you may biased comparing the 3310 (which was a bit of a dud) to the 3311, which DOES hit a better "sweet spot" in terms of features for the dollar than did the 3310 (which was way overpriced).

That explains it. The only other owners thread I have spent much time reading was the 3310 one.

Thanks for the history lesson.

Future Denon fan-boy,
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post #220 of 10228
6/28/10 at 11:25am
Just wanted to point out that Electronics Expo's return policy appears to imply that opened items are not accepted for returns.

http://www.electronics-expo.com/make...service/1.html
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post #221 of 10228
6/28/10 at 12:05pm
I think I am going to pull the trigger on the EE deal. Just talked to one of the reps, its on KILLER deal. The are Amazon affiliated, so I hope they are legit, and trustworthy...I was on the fence with this and the Pioneer SC25 or Onkyo 3007, but I think this will fit the BILL..
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post #222 of 10228
6/28/10 at 12:08pm
Based on posts in last year's Denon model threads, EE was easily the most popular e-tailer being used for Denon AVR purchases.
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post #223 of 10228
6/28/10 at 12:37pm
Decision decisions. Trying to talk myself into selling both my UMC-1 and Onkyo 705 and take a chance on Denon. Never owned one but I like the looks of the 3311 and it appears to have features that would hold me over for a while. I would be using it for a pre/pro only.
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post #224 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

sorry to burst the bubble but this is really no different than any other year it just depends which model in any given year is generating the buzz. you may biased comparing the 3310 (which was a bit of a dud) to the 3311, which DOES hit a better "sweet spot" in terms of features for the dollar than did the 3310 (which was way overpriced).

in my experience, every year, when Denon introduces the new lineup, certain models generate the buzz whereas others miss the mark in features/dollar. you can get a rough proxy for this by looking at the length of the respective owner's threads....

- two years ago, there wasn't even an owner's thread for 1609/1709 (which didn't even have HDMI audio) whereas the 1909/789 was incredibly popular.... and the 2309/889 not so much, since it didn't really offer any compelling upgrades over the 1909/789. People who wanted to step up found that spending a bit more for the 2809/989 was the way to go.

- last year, Denon rectified this by making the 2310/890 more clearly differentiated from the 1910 (adding GUI and high-end video processing), and both were very popular... but then totally missed the mark with the 3310, on which they tried to jack up the price (essentially by cutting the 28xx and 38xx level then trying to price it near the 3808) while cutting some "audiophile" features like MultEQ XT and SACD decoding, in addition to moving it to China for production and slicing some weight vs the 2809/989 it replaced. problem was, consumers were wise to it, and $1499 was a bit ridiculous for msrp.... most people just jumped right to the 4310 for the much more compelling and fully formed featureset.

This year, the 3311 looks to be restoring the credibility of the 2809/989 level as a clear step up from the 23xx model. They brought back MultEQ XT and have added some nice new features, and hopefully fixed the networking... while only sacrificing some legacy inputs which only serve a few niche buyers. Plus they dropped the price back to the $1199 level of the 2809.... all told, the 3311 is indeed a "buzz leader" in this years model lineup -- the 19xx and 23xx models really having nothing new beyond HDMI 1.4. However, it's not generating any more buzz than the "buzz leader" would in any other year.

To me, however, the most compelling value proposition may be the yet-to-be-released AVR 991 model. Early press releases had it at a $999 msrp, and if it offers 95% of the 3311CI featureset for barely more than the 2311CI, it could be an awesome bargain at typical "street" pricing.

Thanks Batpig, your tutorial is a big help as well. Here is one question that I cannot seem to find an answer to:

On my cable box does it matter if I have a fixed or variable volume and what should I set the volume of my Motorola DVR box to be at? I have it around 20 and then you leave that volume alone and use the receiver to control the volume right?
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post #225 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:02pm
just ordered mine from EE, got a SMOKING deal on this thing. THANK YOU FORUM members for your postings! One must either go to the chat, or call in for the deal. I spoke to John, whom was VERY helpful, nice guy to. His extension is 151 on the 888 number for EE. Man..I cannot wait...Hopefully it will get to Cali by Friday!

BTW..I'm glad i missed the Amazon Gold deal on the 3310 a few weeks back...Good by 10 year old Yamaha, HELLO DENON!
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post #226 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

To me, however, the most compelling value proposition may be the yet-to-be-released AVR 991 model. Early press releases had it at a $999 msrp, and if it offers 95% of the 3311CI featureset for barely more than the 2311CI, it could be an awesome bargain at typical "street" pricing.

I don't know if the following response from support at Denon Canada is correct or not, but this was what I got from him this afternoon:

"The AVR-991 will be available in August. The 3311 will get you a 3 year warranty(vs 2), dual HDMI outputs and 3 zone multiroom capability over the 991. Amplifier section between the 2 models will be identical."

Doug
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post #227 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondNut View Post

Just wanted to point out that Electronics Expo's return policy appears to imply that opened items are not accepted for returns.

http://www.electronics-expo.com/make...service/1.html

Yes that is why I had a few issues with their EE return policy as as opposed to say Crutchfield where it is 60 days "No questions asked"...but basically if you are set on this AVR and I am, I am fine with it. If it has a defect they will take it back...your just gonna run into problems if you fall into "I really just don't like it for (???) reason". So I weighed the risk vs reward and went with EE on this purchase.

Also...waiting for shipping confirmation today ... hopefully.
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post #228 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:27pm
What about this site? http://www.tvcity.tv/productview.aspx?ID=2932



I'm from outside de USA, but I will pay someone to buy for me, I'm searching prices or coupons.. any help will be gladly welcome.



The NLISTEN coupon doesn't work anymore...



Regards from Argentina
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post #229 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

Decision decisions. Trying to talk myself into selling both my UMC-1 and Onkyo 705 and take a chance on Denon. Never owned one but I like the looks of the 3311 and it appears to have features that would hold me over for a while. I would be using it for a pre/pro only.



C'om on you know you what to try this baby out I've read all the issues you're having with the UMC-1I'm sure the Denon would be a hell of allot more stable than the Emo.
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post #230 of 10228
6/28/10 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

C'om on you know you what to try this baby out I've read all the issues you're having with the UMC-1I'm sure the Denon would be a hell of allot more stable than the Emo.

Okay, you go first! Wait, you already did! I think I will lurk a bit more and see how things go. Of course, tomorrow I might change my mind and just go for it, who knows. I'm easy, you really don't have to twist my arm that hard.
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post #231 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

Okay, you go first! Wait, you already did! I think I will lurk a bit more and see how things go. Of course, tomorrow I might change my mind and just go for it, who knows. I'm easy, you really don't have to twist my arm that hard.



Man at this price the 3311ci is going for I wouldn't wait, as you know I didn't Tomorrow might be a different story...

What did it for me was the Audyssey MultEQ XT, and the streaming thing, among other few features at this awesome price, and you get 3 years of warranty..You can't beat that these days

DJoel
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post #232 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:03pm
Hello, i am a new member and recently I inherited a 5 speaker Martin Logan setup. It is quite old, probably 9 years old, but am looking at a receiver for the system since the old one is junk. I have a chance to get the 3311 receiver for I believe $647 or an onkyo 1008 when it release for about $800. Which receiver do you guys think would suite me better or is the better deal since im no expert at this by any means?
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post #233 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Man at this price the 3311ci is going for I wouldn't wait, as you know I didn't Tomorrow might be a different story...

What did it for me was the Audyssey MultEQ XT, and the streaming thing, among other few features at this awesome price, and you get 3 years of warranty..You can't beat that these days

DJoel

the 2311 also has this 3-yrs warranty.
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post #234 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dools767 View Post

Thanks Batpig, your tutorial is a big help as well. Here is one question that I cannot seem to find an answer to:

On my cable box does it matter if I have a fixed or variable volume and what should I set the volume of my Motorola DVR box to be at? I have it around 20 and then you leave that volume alone and use the receiver to control the volume right?

set it to FIXED volume because the volume control is being provided by an external device (the AVR or your TV). You don't want the volume control of the cable box interacting with that of the receiver.
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post #235 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by foo_oo00 View Post

Hello, i am a new member and recently I inherited a 5 speaker Martin Logan setup. It is quite old, probably 9 years old, but am looking at a receiver for the system since the old one is junk. I have a chance to get the 3311 receiver for I believe $647 or an onkyo 1008 when it release for about $800. Which receiver do you guys think would suite me better or is the better deal since im no expert at this by any means?

No way! Thats the 2311??? Not the 3311???
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post #236 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmscs View Post

No way! Thats the 2311??? Not the 3311???

If it is the 3311, he needs to jump on that price as fast as possible!
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post #237 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:09pm
not if it's from some "too good to be true" scam website

it's probably either a 3310 or a 2311 though...
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post #238 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:10pm
its the 3311 i have a hookup at denon. so i assume this is the better deal?
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post #239 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by foo_oo00 View Post

its the 3311 i have a hookup at denon. so i assume this is the better deal?

well if u dont want the 3311 at that price - pass it to one of us here!! lolz
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post #240 of 10228
6/28/10 at 2:24pm
for that price i would jump on the 311 for sure
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK