The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 103

Originally Posted by Emig5m

Could that even be done with a update/added feature? I'd pay for that update if so....

Originally Posted by glangford

It would depend on the capability of the processor.

How much margin does it have in processing capabiilty to handle and process 4x (32 postions instead of 8) as much data.

Originally Posted by batpig

It is NOT going to happen! Don't even waste your breath, or let idle internet speculation snowball into a full fledged rumor... it will not happen.



Yes, the limitation is the processor. The 3311ci has only the single DSP chip unlike the higher-level models with dual DSP. Previously the single-DSP models ran MultEQ and only the dual-DSP models could run MultEQ XT.

The new processing algorithms that enabled MultEQ XT32 to run using the same processing power as regular XT, also allow XT to run on the single-DSP models that used to only be able to handle regular MultEQ. That is how Denon could bring back XT on the 3311 model (the 2809 had dual DSP with MultEQ XT, the 3310 Denon saved money by switching to single DSP and regular MultEQ).



the 32 does not refer to the positions, you are confused with the Pro Kit. MultEQ XT 32 has 32 TIMES the filter resolution of MultEQ XT (512x instead of only 16x) but still uses 8 measurement positions.

Originally Posted by audyssey

MultEQ XT 32 is a major new development in the MultEQ algorithm since the original release in 2004. It has been 2+ years in the making and the result of countless hours of algorithm development and some new math.

The main limitation in AVRs today is the available processing power in the DSP chips responsible for running all the digital algorithms. The chips are getting faster every year, but the algorithms coming out are greatly outpacing the chip evolution. Improvement in room correction performance can only come by increasing the resolution of the filters so that finer and finer details of the response can be captured and corrected. But, increasing the resolution means that we must take up more computational power in the chips. That was just not going to happen.

To get around this, we had to go way outside the box. It's not often that you ask: how can we make the algorithm compute more data, but take up fewer resources? That's what we have done with MultEQ XT 32. Using multiple sampling rates in the measurement and filter synthesis process we derived a method that increases the resolution of the MultEQ XT filters by a factor of 32 from what we have today. That gives it many thousands of individual control points with which to shape the response that it measures so that it can achieve the desired response.

This huge increase in resolution is applied equally to all channels including the subwoofer. The most obvious benefit will be in the low frequency range where it's needed the most.

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal1

Although the 4308ci dynamic eq does not have an ref offset setting as in the 3311.
All other features are fabulous except for way too much bass in dynamic eq even when set at the lowest setting. Has anyone experienced too much bass when dynaic eq is turned on and found a way to fix it? I can live without the processing but it is a shame to lose the fabulous high end frequency detail that it produces at lower listening volumes.

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal1

I read this forum from beginning to end as I always do before buying a receiver. I like the features of this reciever and got it a great price from Electronics Expo.

The one downside is that I cannot set dynamic eq up in any way that is pleasing, the bass is just too high on the low end and sounds really artificial. I tried using the dynamic volume set to midnight and set the offset to 15db and that tamed it the most but there were still moments when both front channels (set to large) and the sub were just producing too much bass. Now you would think that you could set the manual eq to lower the bass and then turn dymanic eq "on". However, dynamic eq is not allowable when using manual eq. Bummer. I see that another person had the exact same issue with too much bass. My sub was set to LFE+main and then finally to just LFE. It's sad because dynamic eq does so much for the high frequency range but the boatload of bass just kills it.

I ran auddessy auto setup twice to make sure the settings were correct. I found that my sub settings were off in distance both times. I have a 15 inch sub. I had always kept it a little turned up to get that extra boom on balanced audio (without the extra bass already introduced). After testing with a SP meter I found that the -12db level set by auto setup was correct. amazing since this seems so low compared to all the other speaker levels but the SP meter doesn't lie.

I toyed with the settings for weeks trying to get it to sound right. Finally, I turned off dynamic eq. Sad but I started without this kind of processing anyhow since I upgrade from my AVR 1603 to this avr 3311 which was set to tone control anyway. The sound difference is noticible as I can discern more refined sound from the same speakers.

The thing is that my 4308ci which I have in another room which the exact same speakers except for the rear surrounds, sound perfect with the audessey curve and dynamic eq turned on (yes I purchase the upgraded feature pack which gave me dynamic eq and dynamic volume although I only use dynamic eq). Although the 4308ci dynamic eq does not have an ref offset setting as in the 3311.

All other features are fabulous except for way too much bass in dynamic eq even when set at the lowest setting. Has anyone experienced too much bass when dynaic eq is turned on and found a way to fix it? I can live without the processing but it is a shame to lose the fabulous high end frequency detail that it produces at lower listening volumes.

Originally Posted by SoundofMind

Hi, real. I refer you to the batpig guide Audyssey FAQ, which addresses some fixes for this issue. Let's review. The amount of DynEQ effect is controlled by the MV setting. DynEQ "knows" it and applies less effect automatically as you approach reference and has zero effect when MV=0. DynEQ boosts the bass, the surrounds and to a lesser degree the highs. It should work perfectly for film soundtracks directly off DVD or Blu-ray, but not for films broadcast on TV/cable or music CD's, as these are no longer necessarily at a reference level. So for the latter sources, you can control the DynEQ effect by the dynamic level offset and/or the input level, which do essentially the same thing. For ex., if you are listening to TV with MV at, say, -25 and it's too bassy, you just trim down the input level by 10 dB or use the 10 dB offset if you have it. Then naturally you will turn up the MV=-15 so it sounds just as loud. But now the bass tames down, as do the surrounds. If this is not working, you may want to relocate your sub slightly (especially if it is near a corner or wall) or rerun Audyssey with a tight grouping of mic positions within a 2-3'radius of MLP.

DynVol is another matter entirely. It is compression, which, as you turn it to higher settings (day-> eve-> MN) decreases dynamic range. It will, for ex., tone down the jump in volume of commercials or special effects explosions, but it does not control DynEQ directly. Most people turn the MV up when using DynVol, so that alone tames down DynEQ, as explained above.

Let us know your results as you continue to tweak.

Originally Posted by Emig5m

I wound up turning off DynEQ for similar reasons. I thought it made the sound muddy and lost top-end clarity. It doesn't seem to boost treble at all for me and turning off DynEQ makes the sound clearer. Bass doesn't seem to be lacking with it off. I use the Audyssey curve alone for movies and custom eq for 2-channel music.

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal1

...I read batpigs FAQ and found it very informative...

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal1

...Sure I'm using more wattage and increasing my power bill a tad but you can't put a price on good sound.

Originally Posted by vschaos

After I had ran audyssey I set everything to small and speakers to 60hz...LFE I set to 80hz. Well after some reading I changed the LFE to 120hz as suggested and changed the speakers to 80hz. WOW i sall I can say everything was louder and much more clear. I have RC30's for mains, RC-lcr for center and RC 10's for surrounds. Dont get me wrong it sounded great before, but now have more bass. I am guessing the extra bass I am getting from my sub is due to the 120hz setting? I was going to try setting my speakers back to 60hz instead of 80....or should I leave 80? Meaning they will play anything 80hz and above?

Originally Posted by SoundofMind

Raising the LFE LPF setting from 80 to 120 should have little to no audible effect, as there is very little or no content in that range for the vast bulk of material you play, but it is recommended anyway. It is a bit confusing, but this is actually not a crossover. It simply sets a high limit to the LFE channel content only, not the sub channel.

You can play with the xover settings on capable speakers to see what you like. For ex., I have Polk towers FR/L and they sound great with the xover at 60. The bass is tight and precisely localized in the front soundfield (kick drum, bass guitar, etc), especially nice for listening to good 2 Ch music. Now, my sub is slightly to the right and behind my FR. So when I increase the xover to 80, I lose slightly on the precise localization. But, especially for reference-level listening to 5.1 (an action movie, for ex.), I prefer the higher xover. It takes a load off the towers (which after all have 6.5" drivers) and the AVR's amps and lets my sub with its far larger speaker and separate amp do the work. If your sub is further from the fronts (like in the back) YMMV. A xover of 80 should still be fine, but frequencies above 80 are more localizable by the ear.

Originally Posted by vschaos

... I'd rather save and get what I need/want rather than buying something I wont be happy with.

Originally Posted by SoundofMind

Glad to be of some help. You can pick up a lot of info on these threads, as I have. Sub placement can get tricky, due to the nulls/peaks created with those low freqs. Here is an interesting guide to sub placement. I might be tempted to shop around for a good used sub off craigslist temporarily (people are constantly upgrading, and since it's local you can actually check that it works), then you can always resell it at a similar price when ready to upgrade. My HT is in a 16'X22' room with 8' walls and vaulted 12'ceiling. Yet my Polk PSW 350 (10", 100W), no gunslinger in the sub world, seems just fine. I am a guitar/bass guitar player by avocation and like tight, punchy, musical bass and hate diffuse, overly loud/boomy bass.

Originally Posted by vschaos

My HT is in a 16x36 room and 9 foot ceilings. Not sure what kind of sub I am borrowing, but it does ok. Just when an explosion happens in a movie or something that should give a "punch" this sub isnt that great since it has to fill such a large room. Great video by the way!