The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 12

I have the same settings, and it doesn't overlay. Oh well.

Also see the edit to my post. Specifically:
Edit: note that I also have the i/p scaler on the 3311 set on for both HDMI and analog signals under the Input Setup menu. I switched back and forth and it didn't seem to make a difference. Both the "analog" and "analog and HDMI" settings still displayed the GUI/OSD.

Thanks, but still nothing.

I'm wondering if the RGB setting even does anything on the BD570. If I look at HDMI Information on the receiver like you described previously, I see x.v.color for both YCbCr and RGB. Power cycling the BD570 or receiver doesn't change anything.

I played around with the Input Setup > Video settings to see if the photo images would display correctly, but had no luck. I toggled the i/p scaler (from analog to off), resolution (from auto to 480p, 1080i, 720p, and 1080p) and aspect (full to normal). None of the setting changes worked. All my photos still display in very poor quality via the 3311. Thanks for the thought, though.

Is anyone able to display photos on the 3311 from a media server in good quality?

Got my confirmation from EE early this morning. Should get it Friday.

I'm replacing a 9 year old Denon3802. It has served me well, but I need the HDMI switching and the ability to decode the new formats. I figured I would wait another generation, but when they announced HDMI 1.4a compatibility that sealed the deal.

I have always been a fan of the 3000 series. Always thought it hit the peak of performance per dollar before the steep slope of diminishing returns hits. A couple of friends own 3803's and 3808's respectively, and they both really enjoy them.

I will be running Klipsch RS82's and RS62's plus the RS Center, so power is not my concern. The Klipsch's have above 90dB sensitivity, so it doesn't take much to drive them loud. But I am excited about being able to bi-amp my front speakers. If anyone is interested in my take on that I'd be happy to post after I have a listen.

Yes it does. You can have it either bitstream or PCM, either way it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Thanks!

I just returned my buzzing 2310. It also was having rather high background (white) noise on digital inputs, that was really bad with 2.0 configuration and multi channel input. The noises were clearly audible at -20 volume levels, esp. with Audyssey Dyn EQ. Same thing with headphones.

It seems that the new 2311, as well as 3310 and 3311 have better DACs (less noise at least according to the datasheet).

something about your unit or setup was defective -- that noise is NOT normal, and there is nothing inherent about the 2310 vs the 3311 or any other Denon that would be relevant to that problem; certainly not the DAC's, which would be completely irrelevant to that issue. What you were hearing cannot be explained by the difference between a 102dB S/N ratio vs 100dB....

The service center guy guestimated (based on what he heard from my unit) that some of the power regulators feeding the video processor and/or the digital audio inputs is bad. The hum was worse when the video processing was taxed (1080p input), and less so with 480i input.

However, I suspect that the background white noise is normal for the 2310 (and 1910, based on what I have read). Normally it is barely hearable at the 0dB volume, so it is no problem. But when multiple (digital) channels are folded into the mains (as with headphones or 2-speaker setup, also in the "virtual" mode, even if full setup is connected) these noises somehow sum up so that they can be head at -20dB volume. Now, with Dyn EQ on silent multichannel PCM input (e.g. PS3 via HDMI) these noises become audible even at lower volumes, esp in a silent room.

I had the opportunity to test my unit with 5.1 setup, and I could not hear the noise near the reference volume any more, so that there is no "amplification" due to Dyn EQ either. As my normal setup is 5.1 I was ready to accept the fact that the unit is no good for 2-speaker or headphone use. However, as it became clear that the video conversion buzz was a defect I decided to return it. We eliminated my sources as the cause by using their Blu-ray player as the input, on multi-channel linear PCM over HDMI.

Note that the noises can not be heard with paused encoded streams (DD or DTS) as the unit recognizes the no-signal condition and mutes the output. However, I heard the same background noises on silent passages of DD and DTS streams, decoded in the AVR itself.

Then about the DACs. According to Denon specs 1611, 1911 and 2311 have upgraded DACs, compared to 1610, 1910 and 2310. Apparently the new DACs are now the same line as in 3310 (3311 and 2311 also have the upgraded DAC x2 for digital to analog zone2). Now, the S/N ratio difference between the old (107dB) and new (112dB) is about 5dB. Normally this makes no difference. However, apparently when multiple channels are folded together this "noise floor" is amplified by about 20dB, so this could make a difference, if, with the new DACs, the noises stay inaudible at 0dB (reference volume).

I have no idea why the channel combination has this drastic increase on the background noise (which Dyn EQ then amplifies). I had another user confirm that PS3 multi-CH PCM to headphones has noises audible at -19dB in his 2310. I demoed the same effect to the Service Center both on headphones and 2-speaker setup (while, as I said, on 5.1 setup the noises were about 20dB less audible).

Another data point: On silent 2ch signal, my 2310 had 10dB more noise on all silent PCM digital inputs (HDMI, Optical, Coax), compared to silent analog inputs. They all had hiss (white noise), so they were not muted. I tested the same on display 3310 unit (which has the same type of DAC than in the upgraded 2011 units), and I heard no difference between the analog and digital inputs.

Now it seems to me that this behavior just might be one of the reasons why Denon decided to upgrade the DACs across the board for 2011 models.

When I get my 3311 I'll report back on this "noise floor worst case scenario". I hope 3311 is better in this regard, but as my normal setup is 5.1, I'm prepared to accept these imperfections on 2-ch output of multi-ch input and keep the unit if it has no (other) defects.

I still maintain that something is defective somewhere... MultEQ / Dyn EQ is picking up and amplifying some aberrant noise source (either physical or electrical)... I do NOT experience your symptoms on my 2310 and have never heard ANY objectionable hiss / noise on any of the Denons I have owned (which is many). If the buzz/hiss were that audible at volumes of -20 with normal listening material during quiet passages, we would hear a lot more people complaining... and we don't!

your theory of summed S/N aberrations when folding 5 channels into 2 also makes no sense wrt the DAC's -- the downmix would occur BEFORE the DAC stage. Unless I am misunderstanding you....


on a side note, AFAIK the dual DAC setup on 2311 and up is for the main zone channels (e.g. dual DAC's in a differential array), not for Zone 2. According to the manuals, the 2311 does NOT do D>A for Zone 2... and the dual DAC setup is on 891 and 991 also....

Denon has done this before (e.g. with the 3808CI) using dual DAC's in a differential array to achieve a higher S/N ratio...

Just ordered this unit!

I'm slowly building my home theater system.

I'm upgrading from an Onkyo tx-sr607.
For the TV, I'm using a Samsung PN63C8000.

My speakers are the last on my list, right now I just have some basic Energy Take 5 Classics.

I need to go demo some higher quality speakers over the next few weeks. Anyone have any good recommendations with this receiver? Would like to hold off on an external amp until a little ways down the road.

Well...?

Have you actually tried it out? It is rather simple to test:

1. Put a PS3 or XBOX on a HDMI input, auto setup (7.1 LPCM over HDMI), let the console stay idle in the menu, when it is silent.
2. Plug in your headphones. Put them on, in a silent room.
3. Crank up your volume, until you barely start hearing the background noise.
4. Report the volume level. If it is about -20dB, you will hear this also with 2 speaker setup (headphones disconnected) and Dyn EQ on.

As I said, another member who has no problem with his setup reported -19dB. This noise level only becomes an issue when multiple channels are folded into one, AND Dyn EQ is on.

Also, I have seen couple of people with 2.0, 2.1, or 4.0 setups complaining about this hiss on 1910 and 2310 forums. You can find examples by searching for "hiss" in 1910 forum here at AVS, for example. Another example at: http://www.avforums.com/forums/12403334-post107.html


This is the weirdest thing. At one point I was convinced that there are multiple AD/DA conversions ongoing (e.g. channel folding happening in the analog domain), as I could not understand how the digital path could have white noise before the D/A conversion. Maybe these units ARE defective and actually have this white noise in the digital input signals even before the first D/A conversion.

My old receiver is Yamaha RXV995, and it also has some background hiss that can be heard at high volumes, but this hiss is not increased by channel folding, nor is there Dyn EQ to make it more apparent at practical listening volumes :-)


OK, I stand corrected. This is good news indeed, seems the new units will be having cleaner signal :-) This also means that 3311 must have additional D/A converters for the zone2(&3?).

Ordered mine thru EE on Late Monday evening. Got the notice of shipment this morning EARLY. Guess it went out last nite, EAD is 7-7-10, as I'm on the Left Coast. I can't wait!

oh ya, thanks to whomever posted the first post that EE had them for XX% off...I got the HOOKUP! THANK YOU! I think it was JDS...Beer on me bro!

I haven't been able to figure this out completely from the manual. I have both my cable box and Blu Ray's HDMI inputs set to "Standard" audio. The receiver shows "DOLBY DIGITAL" for my cable box and "PLII CINEMA" for my Blu Ray. Both sources are DD 5.1, as far as I can tell. Any idea what the difference is?

I think you somehow set or maybe the default setting is, for each source, you can have a setting, so its normal. Your cable defaults/sets to DD whereas your Bluray defaults/sets to PII. Makes sense.

Sorry DZ7 for the late response...Haven't really said much because I've been busy at work...
I did hook most of my components last night, but I wanted to make sure I've read certain things about connections before turning this baby on...Also I'm in a dilemma as I have a 2 ch preamp Ht-bypass, and one of my Mono blew out...I hate to re-reconnect things after my amp arrives, which should some time next week. Connecting ll this stuff isn't as fun as it use to when I was younger

Hey does anyone knows if I can still use my Tivo when the 3311ci if off ? Or I just have to do it the old way straight from my PDP, and if I want to use the AVR/ speakers for some Telly watching toshlink!

Will post my thoughts in the weekend

Djoel

I never have a Tivo but if its HDMI, I think the 3311 can be on standby mode - it will pass the signal thru without tampering with. So yes, you should be fine.

When you have the surround mode set to STANDARD, then the AVR will display Dolby Digital when DD 5.1 audio is received and DD PLII when a stereo 2.0 signal is received. The cable box should show DD (HD channels) and PLII (SD channels). More than likely you had the Blu Ray connected to the TV before you got the AVR and therefore had it set to only output PCM 2.0 audio. Reset the BDP to bitstream and set Secondary Audio to OFF (if it has that setting) which will then allow you the AVR to play either the DD/DTS 5.1 or HD audio tracks as selected.

The HDMI Control setting will provide this feature for you for HDMI sources only when the AVR is in Standby, although you must set it to ON (as the factory default is OFF). You then need to set the Standby Source setting to the HDMI jack you have the TiVo plugged in to. This will only work with the HDMI #1 monitor OUT jack. As long as you don't experience any HDMI handshake issues with the TiVo, you're good to go, otherwise you would ahve to resort to the option you suggested above or go component/optical to the AVR.

That's great to know....Didn't see that in the manual

OK I couldn't wait until the weekend,so I connected my speaker cables, and these binding post are a little on the small size, and closed together...The cables I have are man size locking bananas, making the binding look like English teeth. wining to the left, and to the right

The 3311ci sound really smooth and sweet, just a bit anemic for my B&W's. Jmho though.

Djoel

Where do I connect the PDP to, Monitor 2?

Thanks

Djoel

Very happy with my 2310 but would like to know if the 3311, with the net capability it has, be able to go to specific websites (www.Grooveshark.com) for audio ?

As I said in my post ... Monitor #1.


Yes, that's what "network capability" means. Although you can do the same thing with other networking devices like the PS3, AppleTV, etc. connected to the 2310.

Thank you very much for anwser me! I'm plannig to buy at EE, but now is out of stock...

debating on whether upgrading my 3808ci to the 3311 is worth it, any suggestion? thanks

6ave had stock earlier today :-)

After Audyssey setup? Which B&Ws you have?

neonflx -

Do you need HDMI 1.4 for a 3D TV? If not, your 3808 has better components then the 3311, not to mention the 3808 can be upgraded to include Audyssey Dyn EQ and VOL. The 3311 is the successor to the 2808 in your year group.