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The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 323

post #9661 of 10436
It means the AVR can process DSD passed over HDMI; however, the 3311CI does not have this feature, rather only the higher model 4311CI does. You'll have to let the player decimate the DSD and pass it as PCM to the 3311CI over HDMI.
post #9662 of 10436
Thanks. What about the newer 3313?
post #9663 of 10436
Yes, both the 2313CI and the 3313CI can process DSD over HDMI, although again note there is no Audyssey processing when received as DSD.
post #9664 of 10436
To add to what JSD says above:

DSD decoding in AVR is quite unnecessary for the following reasons:

1. With direct DSD-analogue decoding you lose bass management and any other processing like room correction. Not all AVRs do direct decoding as it needs a DSD capable DAC.
2. With intermediate DSD-PCM decimation stage most of the time you can't tell what AVR is doing in terms of PCM sample rate. One AVR (Onkyo 609) is suspected to downsample to 44.1kHz (CD quality) internally. Do not assume all is well!
3. With DSD-PCM decimation stage you possibly may keep bass management (done in PCM) but some AVRs apparently can't do anything else like room correction.
4. People generally can't tell between 96kHz PCM and DSD.
5. Players can do DSD-PCM up to 176.4kHz which for all intense and purpose is indistinguishable from DSD.
post #9665 of 10436
I don't know if anyone can help me with this, but since I have limited access to a telephone and Denon doesn't seem to have e-mail support I just wanted to check with the local experts. I bought a refurb AVR3311CI from an authorized dealer in January of this year. This was coming from an Onkyo TX-SR805 which sounded great, and I was a little iffy on the seemingly cheaper parts in the Denon (as well as the newer Onkyos). Fortunately, the Denon did not disappoint (although I find it less easy to use). Anyway, a few months ago I started getting some crazy popping noises in my center channel speaker. I tried connecting the speaker to a different receiver and it worked fine. I replaced the speaker cable and that seemed to fix it. A little while later, the noise came back. This time I disconnected the speaker for awhile, double checked to make sure nothing was causing interference at the binding posts, and again it went away when I reconnected it. Now it the speaker has developed a steady, loud hissing sound, which you can still hear over, but is pretty annoying (and not how this thing is supposed to work). The noise is not source-dependent (nor format-dependent). If the AVR is on and the center speaker is connected, it is hissing. The speaker cable doesn't seem to be near any power cables so I don't think there's anything happening there. I suspect I just have a faulty center channel power amp (or something along those lines) and it needs to be serviced. When this all started I tried contacting the local Denon warranty repair place and they ignored me repeatedly, so that's not very encouraging. Any other suggestions, either in terms of what might be wrong or how best to get warranty service from Denon?
post #9666 of 10436
Have you tried connecting another speaker to the center channel to see if the same issue presents? If yes, it's more than likely a repair issue. There are only two shops noted on Denon's website in the Twin Cities, both Alex Audio. I just spoke with someone at the Bloomington shop and he said any Denon dropped there is sent over to the New Hope shop, however, there shouldn't be any reason they cannot take the unit. Give them a call rather than trying to deal by email.

Also note, you can email Denon support via there website ..."Ask a Question".

http://denon.custhelp.com/app/utils/login_form/redirect/ask
post #9667 of 10436
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you tried connecting another speaker to the center channel to see if the same issue presents?

No, I was thinking I should try that, too, but haven't done so yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

There are only two shops noted on Denon's website in the Twin Cities, both Alex Audio. I just spoke with someone at the Bloomington shop and he said any Denon dropped there is sent over to the New Hope shop, however, there shouldn't be any reason they cannot take the unit. Give them a call rather than trying to deal by email.
Also note, you can email Denon support via there website ..."Ask a Question".
http://denon.custhelp.com/app/utils/login_form/redirect/ask

Good Lord, thank you for all the legwork. Not sure how I missed that Denon e-mail address!
post #9668 of 10436
Hello, been awhile...I had to store my 3311 for a while and getting ready to reinstall. Ive forgotten how the GUI works. I have Cox digital cable box into the 3311 to Sony TV. I remember being able to see the gui when I listen to FM radio etc. Could see all the things such as HD radio, type of DYN etc. But when I watched TV could not see ANY GUI AT ALL. Not even the little volume bar.

Is there a way to see the gui when watching TV via the Cable box. It has both HDMI output and Component from box to 3311?

thanks
post #9669 of 10436
Press the AMP button before pressing the MENU button. smile.gif
post #9670 of 10436
So.....if Im watching a TV show via hdmi....just hitting AMP will put the gui on top and can see the different things I pick, such as jazz, or Rock, or whatever.
post #9671 of 10436
Oops....my cable box has both HDMI and Component out....is one better for use of the GUI.
post #9672 of 10436
No, shouldn't matter as the menu is 480i.
post #9673 of 10436
What is all the talk on the new 3313 etc that they will put the gui on top of hdmi.....will not my 3311 put the gui on top of the show im watching when I ask it too...or is the new version talking about something else.
post #9674 of 10436
The 3311CI can display the GUI over 2D video only while the 3312CI and all the XX13 models can also display the GUI over both 2D and 3D video.
post #9675 of 10436
Thanks....that is good. Dont use 3D as its still pretty hokey as far as i have seen, so wont worry about that.

But seems I remember that I did hit AMP and still couldnt get the gui to come up....do you know if there is anything hinky known about the 3311 with it not showing the gui. I know I and a lot of folks got hit with the bad NIC card at the roll out....is there another hiccup in the gui display perhaps.

Ill find out when I reinstall I guess, just wondering if you experts have heard of any issue with the gui not coming up...

Thanks
again
Bill
post #9676 of 10436
Quote:
Originally Posted by bricko View Post

Thanks....that is good. Dont use 3D as its still pretty hokey as far as i have seen, so wont worry about that.
But seems I remember that I did hit AMP and still couldnt get the gui to come up....do you know if there is anything hinky known about the 3311 with it not showing the gui. I know I and a lot of folks got hit with the bad NIC card at the roll out....is there another hiccup in the gui display perhaps.
Ill find out when I reinstall I guess, just wondering if you experts have heard of any issue with the gui not coming up...
Thanks
again
Bill

I've experienced this issue from time to time while watching video from my TiVo (HDMI via SAT/CBL input). I am not sure what causes it but, in the absence of a better explanation, would assume it's related to HDMI interoperability.

I have found that it usually resolves itself if I simply re-select the source (which in my case is QS2).
post #9677 of 10436
Yes, im sure it worked for a bit....then seemed to just stop. could only see gui when I played FM radio and the gui took over the entire screen.

But Ill see maybe next month when new entertainment center arrives and we put it back together.
post #9678 of 10436
Hi to all!

Iam new around here, I hope I can have some e-friends and we can share good experiencies with our equipment.

Well, I have a 3311 about 2 months now...and Iam learning how to play with this baby. My previous receiver was the Onkyo SR608 wich I really really like.

When I first change to 3311 I listen a big difference...I liked how music sounds in the Denon.....but I dont like how the movies play. But Iam tunning in this Denon, I hope I can end with good results.

My questions:

1. Iam doing bi-amp setup (FR and FL) + center speaker + SR + SL ..... cand I add some Wides for DSX? What I need to do DSX with biamp with the 3311?

2. Somebody here have some experience with wides DSX setup? How it sounds? Where is the rigth placement: at the same level of fronts....higher?


Thanks!
post #9679 of 10436
^^
Welcome to AVS Forum. smile.gif

1. Suggest you just disconnect the bi-amp wires (likely no real gain in either better sound or more power) and connect the DSX wide speakers to the dedicated Wide speaker posts, otherwise you will have to switch back and forth between Amp Assign "Normal" (Front Wide) and "Bi-Amp" as you cannot do both at the same time.
2. As noted in the diagram below, they should be out about 60 degrees from the main listening position/center speaker line and at the same level as the FL/FR speakers.


post #9680 of 10436
Ok.

I do not agree with you. I really like the sound of bi-amp in my KEF Q500, I gain more tweeter definition, more tridimentional sound and a very good control of bass.

What I need for Bi-AMP + DSX Wides? What I need to buy to have that configuration? more amps? another receiver?

Thanks!
post #9681 of 10436
In order to do both you would need to upgrade to a 9.1 AVR (5.1+2 (wide) +2 (biamp)) such as the Denon 4311CI.
post #9682 of 10436
or just get external amps to bi-amp the fronts, so the bi-amping happens externally (not using four channels of the receiver's amps).
post #9683 of 10436
Good idea!!

Can you tell me a good amp for the bi-amp I want? I want something equal as the 3311 or better.

And how will be the diagram....how I connect the 3311 to a external AMP....how they talk each other?

Thanks!
post #9684 of 10436
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, both the 2313CI and the 3313CI can process DSD over HDMI, although again note there is no Audyssey processing when received as DSD.
According to Denon Support, the AVR-3313 decimates DSD direct to 88.2/24 PCM for 2-channel SA-CD playback and 48/24 for multi-channel playback over HDMI.

There is no direct DSD to analogue processing on that model. When I spoke to them, my query was of AVR-3313 only. AVR-2313 might do the same, but then again it may not.
post #9685 of 10436
Quote:
Originally Posted by majas View Post

Good idea!!

Can you tell me a good amp for the bi-amp I want? I want something equal as the 3311 or better.

And how will be the diagram....how I connect the 3311 to a external AMP....how they talk each other?

Thanks!

it won't be hard to find an amp equal or better than the internal amps, the internal amps in receiver's aren't that great in an absolute sense. Look into Emotiva, they are very popular for the price.

there is no need for the receiver and amp to "talk to each other", it's a passive relationship wink.gif the reciever processes the signal and then sends it out, and the amps amplify it.

if you want to bi-amp the front four speakers with an external amp, you will need four amp channels (2 per front speaker). What you will do then is use an RCA splitter (y-cable) to split the signal from the FR/FL pre-outs to two channels of the amp for each speaker. Then connect the speaker wire from amp to the speakers. As far as the receiver is concerned there is no bi-amping, it doesn't "know" what is happening after the signal leaves the processor and heads to the pre-outs. All the rest is happening externally.

So in terms of a diagram, for example the FL channel would look like this:

Denon FL pre-outs > RCA splitter > two RCA cables > 2 channels of input on the external amp > 2 sets of speaker wire to the speakers

If you get an Emotiva XPA-5, you can use external amps for the front three speakers, one for the center and two each for the fronts. Then you will free up two amps in the receiver to power the wides.
post #9686 of 10436
Howdy.
I've been a long time lurker on AVS.
I am currently remodeling as a new homeowner and I was given the go ahead to spruce up my living room (aka. the theater).
(I don't have the luxury to have a man cave all to myself frown.gif )

From the owner's manual, it shows all manners of speaker hookups (page 49).
Since the 3311 is a 7.2 setup, does that mean I am limited to any speaker configuration in the diagram up to a max of 7 speakers and 2 subwoofers?

Assuming I keep the main front speakers, center channel, and side surrounds (5 total), I would have to choose between having
a. rear surrounds
b. front high
c. front wide (Unsure about this, seems like they are just spaced a litter wider than the front speakers but are they actually used)?

Since the speakers are only used if the audio track has them, which set is usually available on DVD/BluRay movies?

I'm coming from a 2.1 setup.

Is it acceptable to mix ceiling height side surrounds, since I'd rather keep the walls available for book shelves and side sofa space.
I'm thinking of bookshelf speakers mounted from the ceiling and pointed down (not in-ceiling).
I'm guessing in-wall isn't an option, since both side walls are exterior walls and will have insulation.

Thanks.
post #9687 of 10436
Quote:
Since the 3311 is a 7.2 setup, does that mean I am limited to any speaker configuration in the diagram up to a max of 7 speakers and 2 subwoofers?


actually, the 3311 has enough hookups to connect a complete 11.2 setup. However, it can only process / amplify 7 at a time, so theoretically you could hook up heights AND wides AND surround backs in addition to the "core" 5 channels, but you can only run 7 channels at once.

Quote:
Since the speakers are only used if the audio track has them

Actually that's not true, most soundtracks are only 5.1, sometimes 7.1 if there are back surrounds. No soundtracks have wides or heights. So the vast majority of time, if you have more than a 5.1 setup, you are going to be using some kind of post-processing (Audyssey DSX, Dolby PLIIx or PLIIz, etc) to create the extra channels.

Quote:
Is it acceptable to mix ceiling height side surrounds

Side surround should be a bit higher than ear level, ceiling height is higher than "ideal" but it should be fine.
post #9688 of 10436
You can stay with the 5.1 setup or add the 2 additional speakers in one of the additional configurations shown in the manual. Currently there is no dedicated audio track for either the Front Wide or Front Height channels, and very few actual 7.1 BDs, rather if you have a 7.1 setup you can use either DD PLIIx to simulate audio to the rear surrounds or DD PLIIz/DSX for Front Height or DSX for Front Wide. As far as the side surround height, ideally they should be 2-3' above the seated ear height so you may want ot experiment as to whether mounting them higher is acceptable for you.
post #9689 of 10436
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You can stay with the 5.1 setup or add the 2 additional speakers in one of the additional configurations shown in the manual. Currently there is no dedicated audio track for either the Front Wide or Front Height channels, and very few actual 7.1 BDs, rather if you have a 7.1 setup you can use either DD PLIIx to simulate audio to the rear surrounds or DD PLIIz/DSX for Front Height or DSX for Front Wide. As far as the side surround height, ideally they should be 2-3' above the seated ear height so you may want ot experiment as to whether mounting them higher is acceptable for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

actually, the 3311 has enough hookups to connect a complete 11.2 setup. However, it can only process / amplify 7 at a time, so theoretically you could hook up heights AND wides AND surround backs in addition to the "core" 5 channels, but you can only run 7 channels at once.
Actually that's not true, most soundtracks are only 5.1, sometimes 7.1 if there are back surrounds. No soundtracks have wides or heights. So the vast majority of time, if you have more than a 5.1 setup, you are going to be using some kind of post-processing (Audyssey DSX, Dolby PLIIx or PLIIz, etc) to create the extra channels.
Side surround should be a bit higher than ear level, ceiling height is higher than "ideal" but it should be fine.

Thanks for the quick response guys.

Looks like I'll go ahead and stick with the traditional 5.1 setup for now.
Less of a headache for me in terms of speaker placement.

I learned something new today in regards to the audio past 5.1 setups, so I'm going to get some ice cream now.

Thanks again.

-- D
post #9690 of 10436
Network issues with Denon AVR-3311 -- any ideas???

I really love this forum. I have referenced it multiple times over the last few years with my various Denon receiver issues or questions.......

Having said that I am looking for some specific help this time around that will hopefully prevent a trip to the Denon authorized repair shop in Minnesota. The only shop autoriozed to do warranty repairs says they allow 4-5 weeks to do repairs on Denon receivers.

A couple of months ago I started to have few weeks problems with my Denon AVR-3311 receiver :
1) On screen volume display stopped working
2) Switching from one input to another would not work w/o turning on & off the receiver. It would display the new output (e.g. SAT/CBL) on the receiver but no sound or video was passed o the TV or speakers,
3) Network features stopped working

Finally had some time this past weekend to look into this & play around in order to resolve the issues.

I finally got thru the Microprocessor reset steps & this resolved items 1 & 2 above but the Network function are still not working.

I can unplug the network cable from the receiver & it disappears from the list of network devices on my network tracking program. When I plug it back in it get assigned a n IP address & I can see that IP address (same one) in the Denon menu under the network settings.. just no MAC address & the status on the Nework Set-up menu simply shows "Network Connecting".

I have trie mutiple "Network Resets' as oulined on this forum (e.g. unplus the 3311 for 10 minutes & then when powering back on press & hold UP/DOWN arrow buttons on the front panel for 3-4 seconds.

I have done this at least 5 times at one setting & repeated this on another occasion & had no luck with restoring the Network service. one.

Any other ideas thoughts , key combinations or magic chants I can use to get the network card back & active in the receiver?

Thanks in advance for any help!
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