"Official" Pioneer Elite SC-37 - Page 6

No, of course not, the DAC in my SC-27 is WAY better than anything in the SC-37, naturally!

TI (via BB) has been working hard to get their data converter line back to its "glory days" and is making some awesome stuff.

I do not think you'll hear any difference.

Beg to differ. Im sticking with the SC-27. Now it's a collectors item.

And i bet reviewers will hear some type of difference. Naturally

But after a week of back and forth with a very rude online CSR team at Pioneer (would I be correct in thinking that English is not their first language)? They kept transposing input and outputs and challenging me on whether the manual mentions the cavaet of not being able to accept a digital input to Zone2/3. They claim that it doesn't at all and this is downgrade in functionality from the SC-07.

Contrast that with Denon support which was much more prompt and friendly.

It turns out that the Denon equivalent of the of the SC-37 (4311CI) does support 2 channel PCM into zone 2/3 and as it happens also decodes 24bit Flac (so does the 3311).

The Pioneer has an awesome iPhone app which I use in my bedroom setup on the VSX1020k. Very happy with that.

But is one nice control app worth these deficiencies when contrasted with the equivalent Denon?

BTW, this is not my main stereo listening setup. For that I have B&W 803D's and Rotel pre-pro, external DAC. 500W power etc.

However this would replace an old Denon AVR for home theatre and zone two to another room. I need HDMI1.4. I could live without flac24 I suppose for zone two.

Apart from the iPhone app, what does the SC-37 have that should make me buy it over the Denon? Seriously, I'm open to being persuaded.

^^^

i'm a huge pio fanboy... i've owned two different sc avr's, a sc-05 and a sc-09 (amoungst a bunch of others), and imo, if it was me in your shoes, i'd buy the sc...

that being said, it's not me, it's you... and my recommendation to anybody is to "buy the avr that has the features you want"... and since the denon has the features you want, that's what you should buy...

one man's opinion, anyway...

Since the 10 series AVRs were released last year, many LAN connected Denon AVRs can generate a remote control screen that is optimized for Mobile Safari on the iPhone or iPod Touch. And a third party remote control app, DeRemote, is available at the iTunes App Store.

See these links:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1156890
http://www.deremote.com/

AJ

The CSR claims it can't do digital on zone 2 and 3? That seems to be correct. The manual states that it can output analog only for 2 and 3 so it most likely can't accept digital. Not sure why this is a CSR problem - they are just replying with facts.

I realize being rude etc isn't good, but I have always gotten straight and correct answers from Pioneers email service. I don't really like a lot of the answers but they are correct so can't complain

Yes, the manual states that you can't output digital to zone2/3 but that is not the same thing as accepting a digital input. I'm sorry but if that were the case you wouldn't have every other vendor specifically noting the limitation in their manuals. Accepting a digital input means you can use the onboard DACs to decode. Having a bypass of the DACs to allow digital to pass through would be something else altogether.

The fact remains though that the SC-37 cannot take a digital input for zone2/3. This is a downgrade in functionality from the SC-07. I am disappointed that Pioneer decided to do this. A ~$1k Denon AVR has this capability. I may be in a very small minority of people would use this functionality but at $2200 for a flagship product it seems like short cuts were taken. Maybe related to the new DACs or possibly the number of them on board.

I've moved on. I downloaded the DeRomote iPhone app and will test it on my older Denon AVR. Thx for the recommendations from this forum. It looks like it will do everything I need albeit with a clunky interface when compared to the excellent job done by Pioneer.

^^

On the issue of downgrading functionality -

For at least the last 3-4 yrs, many posters on this forum bitched about having a lot of legacy connections on the backs of their "modern" HDMI receivers. Some of the mfgs are now glad to respond, because it has the ADDED benefit to THEM of reducing their own costs.

Now some are bitching because some previous connection or functionality is NOT there . The saying "be careful what you wish for" seems appropriate!

Before you think I'm criticizing you, I'm 100% in your camp!

For my needs, substituting geeky iPhone control & such for core functionality with ALL kinds of sources, modern & legacy, IS a step backwards.

Unless one truly has a burning desire to be an early adopter-guinea pig for 3D, to my eyes the SC-27 might be the better choice. It has more connectivity for use with more types of devices. If I had a 27 now, I'd keep it in a nano-second & wait for 3D to mature over next 2-3 yrs. Worth considering for some of you anyway

IMHO, in Pioneer's race to keep up with the Denon's & Onkyo's of the AV world, they've also managed to provide a bit LESS for the same money - not a bad thing when you're still losing many millions per yr as a company. They're probably thinking some of you won't notice since you'll now have that 3D capability that's hot now

Me? I want all the connections & functionality I can get....of all types. For my needs, the SC-37 wouldn't cut it. Hate to say that, 'cause I'm a big Pioneer fanboy.

Did he give you an estimated ship date? Do they sell at retail value or is it discounted at all?

As another Pio (flagship) fanboy, I wonder if Pio actually assessed the user community for certain features. I wonder how few (or how many) buyers are using Zones 2 or 3, particularly at the expense of >5.1 setups.

I contrast the other zone digital feature vs iPhone control, even understanding that software development is not cheap either, it may be a bigger draw. I know Bluetooth is a big draw for me, and I would never trade out 10 amps & channels of the 09 to a different zone (even though I obviously could w/o having A+B side surrounds.

Like in movie production, bank robbing, etc., I would suggest that following the money is what CE companies have to do, even though I would still like AC-3 RF, i.Link forever, etc.

I couldn't care less about zones and ipod whatever. I wan't pure sound quality.

Thats why i still worry about TI vs wolfson. I guess eventually if i do need them they're there. But i don't think i'll ever use those things.

Tim, you make great points. And I admit I was a bit harsh on assessment
OK, I'll mod my position:

For some who want iphone & bluetooth capability, HDMI 1.4, heights, maybe even vid scaling over HDMI - I admit, it's a nice list - and really don't need much for a zone 2-3, the 37 could be excellent choice. For those that don't or have some legacy gear to use, it may not be best choice.

I can understand dropping Svid (it's a PITA connector anyway) in today's world of hi-def, HDMI & component vid. But dropping dig audio support for zone 2 can't save that much money.

Bottom line is I just don't like going backwards on AV purchases. I want it all!

SC07 doesn't do digital on zone 2. Manual says digital for zone 3 but I haven't confirmed that this works.

I think iPhone is an exception and works on all zones but may be wrong.

Maybe you want to swap for my SC-07 then

Agreed!!

The DAC choice is one thing I don't think will be an issue. Denon and other highly praised prepros and flagships use TI BB's & no one thinks their sound quality isn't top notch.

There are hi-end gear still using the Burr Brown PCM1704, which Pioneer also used in their flagship 49 & 59TXI. It's still around & still a top performer, but has been surpassed by today's best.

I don't since I have the SC-09 but some might take u up

Can you pm me with the price you got?

when are the sc-37 and sc-35 coming out? i'm sick of waiting.

Me too

I'm curious of how many people will buy up to the 37. i will probably go with the 35.

I'm not sure if will make a difference in my room. it's about 14 x 17 ft.

it's difficult to tell some of the differences given the spec sheets and manuals. the biggest i can see are"

37 has home media gallery and can use networks to retrieve music
32 bit vs. 24
rf controller.

not sure what else is different.

The 37 is firmware upgradable via network downloads. This maybe important if this means DSP code, for future audio and video codecs.

Also as previously cited, the user manual states that ony he SC-37 has full band phase control as part of MCACC.

SC-37 only: By performing the Full Auto MCACC Setup
procedure, the frequency-phase characteristics of the
connected speakers are also calibrated.
Once the Full Auto MCACC Setup procedure is
completed, the Full Band Phase Control function is
automatically turned on (page 63).

That was a 32 bit versus 24 bit DAC.

Me too! I'd like to know!

Thanks.

Chris - where is it confirmed that the 37 can be upgraded at home? Pioneer has only allowed this for the HMG in previous models....

SC-35 is THX Select2 Plus whereas SC-37 is THX Ultra2 Plus.

Is this an important difference?

you know. i'm not sure or not if it's a big difference. if you read thx web site it has to do with the size of the room.

http://www.pioneerusa.com/ephox/Stat...iles/SC-37.pdf
Networking Entertainment:
-- vTuner
-- DLNA 1.5
-- FLAC Decoder
-- Rhapsody1
-- SIRIUS Internet Radio1
-- Internet Radio
-- Firmware updates available through network

^^
Chris, that's no guarantee based on Pioneer's track record. They've misrepresented that feature before many times. This is what they published on the SC-09:

Network GUI
PC Display
USB Firmware Upgradable

Of those items, only the 2nd is factually correct; the other 2 never happened; there is no network GUI and no user updateable FW by USB. The SC-09 can only be completely updated by using a combination of: RS232, CD, USB and some proprietary interface that service centers have. The user isn't equipped to do it & isn't supposed to do it.

I caught Pioneer Australia web site publishing something on the SC-09/BDP-09 player combination that was total fabrication. I brought it to the attention of Chris Walker (Walkamo on this forum) at Pioneer's BD division & he made sure the Australia division changed it. What they had published on a specific functionality was just not true.

So, be cautious when evaluating these advertised features. The SC-27/25 was supposed to be internet upgradeable, and the only thing that meant to users was updating the Home Media Gallery.

I wouldn't call what Pioneer is doing lying but they are definitely exaggerating kernels of truth.

 

Pioneer SC-09TX_specs[1].pdf 478.158203125k . file

Thanks for the feedback. The RF remote and more confidence about handling 4 ohm loads, draws me to the 37 over the 35.