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"Official" Pioneer Elite SC-37 - Page 2

post #31 of 4405
7/12/10 at 12:55pm
If you can afford THX certified speakers all around, sure, why not? But preferences are very subjective and that's why it is always a good thing to have a choice rather than being forced upon.
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post #32 of 4405
7/12/10 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Most ppl prefer PLIIx over THX. Besides, there is no technical reason what so ever for Pio to lock out almost all DTS codecs from DPL2 processing. There must be some strange reasoning behind this but no one seems to know why. Remember, its top of line SC-09 can't do it either and it is not just DTS-HD MA, other DTS formats are affected as well. So, it is not due to the lack of processing power.

I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't DD a competitor of DTS? So, DTS might not want it's codecs being processed with anything DD and DTS might have a agreement with THX. Just a thought.
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post #33 of 4405
7/12/10 at 1:29pm
The only flaw in that reasoning is that almost all other receiver makers can process DTS-HD MA with DPL2 just fine.
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post #34 of 4405
7/12/10 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marine92104 View Post

Does anyone know if the SC-37 will matrix the surround speakers to the surround back speakers on a DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack.

I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX-94THX receiver & when playing a DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack it doesn't allow you to use the surround back speakers.

I'm hoping that Pioneer corrected this with their SC receivers. If so I will be placing an order for the SC-37.

I need to know as soon as possible so I can place an order before the 1st batch has been sold out.

Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I might have to change my choice for a new AVR as well. This seems pretty basic as a "feature", especially if the other major AVR brands have it.
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post #35 of 4405
7/12/10 at 2:36pm
Thread Starter 
What about DTS NEO:6?
"DTS Neo:6 takes 2-channel (stereo) audio and completely transforms it into up to six full-bandwidth matrix channels of surround sound. Your 6.1- or 5.1-channel system will produce six and five separate channels, respectively, to match your speaker layout. DTS Neo:6 can also generate a center surround channel from 5.1 material. The DTS Neo:6 capability is featured in all DTS-ES-equipped receivers."
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post #36 of 4405
7/12/10 at 4:26pm
1.it won't do 7.1 as we needed.
2. it won't work with DTS-HD MA track.
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post #37 of 4405
7/12/10 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

1.it won't do 7.1 as we needed.
2. it won't work with DTS-HD MA track.

That's strange that DTS doesn't have a function to accomplish this. I wonder if they will come out with it and if so will Pio provide it in a FW update.

Just found this....
The upcoming next-gen Neo, which will upmix to 11.1 channels to add height and width speakers to an existing surround system, much like Dolby Pro Logic IIz and Audyssey DSX.
http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2010/dts/
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post #38 of 4405
7/12/10 at 5:16pm
I highly doubt that Pio will give you a firmware update for a new feature not described in the product spec. That will be for future generations of the receiver. Besides, if Pio really want to give you DTS-HD MA to PLIIx processing, they can simply re-route the decoded PCM data to DPLIIx processor a few generations a ago, like 92/94/SC-09 time, or SC-03/05/07 time, or SC-25/27 time. But they chose not to.
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post #39 of 4405
7/12/10 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

I don't seem to understand...why is this a problem?
Isn't the THX mode good enough for what you are trying to achieve??

I have 6 tower full range 200 watt speakers. Each speaker has a 300 watt subwoofer in it.

When I use THX mode it cuts the highs & lows too much.

There is a huge night & day difference when I run in regular mode vs THX mode.

Enought so that I'm looking at selling my VSX-94TXH because of it.

For certain speakers I'm sure the THX mode is great but with the full range speakers I have the regular mode is a huge improvement.

If Pioneer Elite doesn't include that in the SC-37 I'll be looking elsewhere.

What I can't figure out is I tried out a VSX-9040TXH Pioneer which is not an Elite & it did matrix the surround with the surround rears.

The VSX-9040TXH is supposedly a rebadged VSX-21TXH Pioneer Elite for the regular Pioneer line.

Why would they allow matrixing of bitstreamed DTS-HD MA soundtracks on that receiver & not the SC line?

Does the SC-27 not allow that feature & is everyone sure it won't be in the SC-37 also?

Again this is crazy thinking on Pioneer's part.
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post #40 of 4405
7/12/10 at 8:27pm
I am planning to use the Jamo D 600 LCRs and surrounds in a 7.1 configuration with a Pioneer Elite SC-37. The SC-37 has a 8 ohm rating, but doesn't have information on 4 ohms. Does any one have experiences running a 4 ohm speakers with SC-37's predecessors (like SC-27 or a SC-25)? Will it work with a 4 ohms speakers? Any advice is deeply appreciated!
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post #41 of 4405
7/12/10 at 8:38pm
The quick list:

1. Pioneer does not rate it for 4-ohm speakers.
2. The actual amplifier modules are rated by ICEpower to run 4-ohm loads.
3. Many folk are using it to drive 4-ohm speakers with no problems.

HTH - Don
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post #42 of 4405
7/12/10 at 9:18pm
So, since the pioneer's can't matrix back surrounds with DTS HD MA, will it do so with PCM?

If so, I guess we could set the blu-ray player to output the PCM instead and let the pioneer matrix that..
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post #43 of 4405
7/12/10 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

So, since the pioneer's can't matrix back surrounds with DTS HD MA, will it do so with PCM?

If so, I guess we could set the blu-ray player to output the PCM instead and let the pioneer matrix that..

According to the manual, no.
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post #44 of 4405
7/12/10 at 10:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopijai View Post

I am planning to use the Jamo D 600 LCRs and surrounds in a 7.1 configuration with a Pioneer Elite SC-37. The SC-37 has a 8 ohm rating, but doesn't have information on 4 ohms. Does any one have experiences running a 4 ohm speakers with SC-37's predecessors (like SC-27 or a SC-25)? Will it work with a 4 ohms speakers? Any advice is deeply appreciated!

This is the thread for that...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1260116
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post #45 of 4405
7/13/10 at 4:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopijai View Post

...Will it work with a 4 ohms speakers? Any advice is deeply appreciated!

This topic has been beat to death in all the owner threads!

I suggest you check them & the one Jnipz linked. The short answer is yes; quite a few owners use the SC's with 4 ohm speakers.
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post #46 of 4405
7/13/10 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

So, since the pioneer's can't matrix back surrounds with DTS HD MA, will it do so with PCM?

If so, I guess we could set the blu-ray player to output the PCM instead and let the pioneer matrix that..

One of the issues is some BD players, including Pioneer's, duplicate the side surrounds into the rears. This precludes adding any matrix processing.

It's how each player mfg. decides to map DTS-MA channels. Pioneer's and at least some of the Panasonic's duplicate them. Supposedly, if I've read Oppo threads correctly, the Oppo does not. But I don't own the Oppo (yet) so can't confirm. I DO own the Pio BDP-05 & 09 players and they both dupe and matrix can't be added to their PCM output - I've tried
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post #47 of 4405
7/13/10 at 5:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

So, since the pioneer's can't matrix back surrounds with DTS HD MA, will it do so with PCM?

If so, I guess we could set the blu-ray player to output the PCM instead and let the pioneer matrix that..

Pioneers can use DPLIIx matrix back surrounds for everything other than DTS codecs.

Pioneers can use THX Select2 or Ultra to matrix back surrounds for DTS codecs.

A lot of BD players don't give your chance to matrix if it decodes. Panasonic players output LPCM 7.1 for all DTS codecs and Sony players typically use HDMI handshake to determine whether to decode or to bitstream.
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post #48 of 4405
7/13/10 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Pioneers can use THX Select2 or Ultra to matrix back surrounds for DTS codecs.

Good catch I forgot about THX in my above post. I don't use THX so I tend to forgot about it
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post #49 of 4405
7/13/10 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


According to the manual, no.

While I will also defer to an industry maven like FilmMixer, and his on and off dalliance with Pio , the PCM flow for all channels should work fine for MA decoding in the Blu-Ray component if it provides 7.1 matrixing. For some reason I can do MA 5.1 synthesized 7.1 fine on my 09TX (good to know that multiple-thousand $ additional "investment" paid off.
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post #50 of 4405
7/13/10 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

While I will also defer to an industry maven like FilmMixer, and his on and off dalliance with Pio , the PCM flow for all channels should work fine for MA decoding in the Blu-Ray component if it provides 7.1 matrixing. For some reason I can do MA 5.1 synthesized 7.1 fine on my 09TX (good to know that multiple-thousand $ additional "investment" paid off.

I don't believe SC-09 works any differently than other Elite models in this area. At least that's what I got when I read the SC-09 manual last time. However, I did read from someone with an old Elite 94 on older firmware that he can apply DPLIIx on DTS-HD MA tracks. But I'm not sure about that since no other 94 owners can do that.

Here is the link to SC-09TX manual: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions1213.pdf

Page 151 describes what you can apply to different multi-channel sources. For 5.1 channel DTS-Express, DTS-HD MA and WMAPro, only straight decoding is available to standard mode (non-THX mode). So is 192KHz 5.1 channel Dolby TrueHD.

Although not mentioned in the table on page 151 (and the same table on other Elite receivers), LPCM 5.1 can indeed be matrixed to 7.1 using DPLIIx (I can confirm that with my Elite 92). I guess that's why FilmMixer said, " according to manul, no'.
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post #51 of 4405
7/13/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post


I don't believe SC-09 works any differently than other Elite models in this area. At least that's what I got when I read the SC-09 manual last time.

Only stating based on actual use/testing.
1) it will pass 7.1 PCM. I don't have a blu-ray player that decodes MA and matrices internally, but if it pushes 7.1 PCM, the 09 plays it. If someone wants to lend me a player that decodes MA in extrapolates 7.1 from 5.1 I'll test it, but it passes 7.1 PCM fine.
2) it will overlay Modes on MA. Now why anyone would think that there speaker investment is less valuable because the release supposedly matching the "master audio" losslessly is beyond me, but then again I know some people that like to mess with OAR and remove those "bothersome black bars.". To each his own, and I would vote with owner choice mangling if they see fit.

Now why a 2 generation old flagship is more "feature complete" in this area is beyond me. Maybe a SC-39 will work better. I'm only in this thread lusting for A2DP Bluetooth and iPhone control and a few additional features, but I have never been disappointed with the sound of lossless codec movies on the 09
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post #52 of 4405
7/13/10 at 9:15am
I guess my question is where can I get the SC-37. About 9 years ago I purchased a Pioneer home theater set on sale. Moved it to the Master BR when I purchased a Sony ES 2500 and Bose Accoustimass 16. I like the sound from my Pioneer much better, but it was limited on inputs. So I kept the Sony. Now looking to upgrade everything excpet the speakers. TV and receiver. I like what the SC-37 says, but can't find where to buy? any suggestions?
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post #53 of 4405
7/13/10 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Only stating based on actual use/testing.
1) it will pass 7.1 PCM. I don't have a blu-ray player that decodes MA and matrices internally, but if it pushes 7.1 PCM, the 09 plays it. If someone wants to lend me a player that decodes MA in extrapolates 7.1 from 5.1 I'll test it, but it passes 7.1 PCM fine.
2) it will overlay Modes on MA. Now why anyone would think that there speaker investment is less valuable because the release supposedly matching the "master audio" losslessly is beyond me, but then again I know some people that like to mess with OAR and remove those "bothersome black bars.". To each his own, and I would vote with owner choice mangling if they see fit.

Now why a 2 generation old flagship is more "feature complete" in this area is beyond me. Maybe a SC-39 will work better. I'm only in this thread lusting for A2DP Bluetooth and iPhone control and a few additional features, but I have never been disappointed with the sound of lossless codec movies on the 09

1. LPCM 7.1 passes just fine on my Elite 92 and all other Elite models.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by overlay modes on MA. Are you saying that your 90tx can actually apply DPLIIx on DTS-HD MA tracks? That contradicts with both the manual and what other 90 owners posted.
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post #54 of 4405
7/13/10 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigchris69 View Post

I guess my question is where can I get the SC-37. About 9 years ago I purchased a Pioneer home theater set on sale. Moved it to the Master BR when I purchased a Sony ES 2500 and Bose Accoustimass 16. I like the sound from my Pioneer much better, but it was limited on inputs. So I kept the Sony. Now looking to upgrade everything excpet the speakers. TV and receiver. I like what the SC-37 says, but can't find where to buy? any suggestions?

It won't be shipped until mid-end of the month possibly early next month. That is straight from Pio. You might find the first ones at a local dealer, but I spoke to the General Manager of Magnolia in BB and they don't even have it in their systems yet, all they show are the VSX-30's. My guess is that they will ship to small dealers first then to the big boys.
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post #55 of 4405
7/13/10 at 3:01pm
Just got the word that it was delivered to my house today. Hopefully my speakers will arrive this week as well. Can't wait.
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post #56 of 4405
7/13/10 at 3:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RezaR1 View Post

Just got the word that it was delivered to my house today. Hopefully my speakers will arrive this week as well. Can't wait.

Where did you buy it from? Since Pioneer hasn't ship them yet.
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post #57 of 4405
7/13/10 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnipz View Post

Where did you buy it from? Since Pioneer hasn't ship them yet.

Got it directly from Pioneer.
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post #58 of 4405
7/13/10 at 3:24pm
Pics reza!!!!!!!

Some listening test would be nice also.
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post #59 of 4405
7/13/10 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Pics reza!!!!!!!

Some listening test would be nice also.

I'll get the pics tonight when I get home. The listening test has to wait until I get my speakers. Don't have them yet.
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post #60 of 4405
7/13/10 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RezaR1 View Post

Got it directly from Pioneer.

How? Pioneer doesn't have it available online. Did you call the order in? They claim that all Elites are sold in store and not online. Wonder why they told me end of the month when I called last week....hmmm
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