"Official" Pioneer Elite SC-37 - Page 12

Actually "martinefski" tried step 1, connected rear surrounds to 2-ch amp but no difference.

I thought I read that but couldn't find it. Thanks. Still until someone hooks up a "traditional 9.1" we don't know what the receiver is capable off

Yeah, I actually tried that last night. It probably won't happen but it really seems to me with a firmware upgrade this option should still be possible with that separate amp.

What do you mean traditional? Nine separate amps? What I tried was the SC-37 driving the front heights a Parasound 5250 driving the L,R,C,LS,RS and another two channel amp driving the rear surrounds.

In regards to the height format and the manual. It is very misleading to say the least

Page 8 -- determine speaker application 9.1 channel surround system (Front Height)

Page 22 -- Setup A -- 9.1 Channel Surround System (Front Height)

Page 60 -- Pro Logic IIz Height - Up to 7.1 channel sound (front height)

Page 8 and 22 are contradictions to page 60

What I meant with traditional (sorry bad term) was don't use the height hookup on the receiver. Speakers hooked up to the receiver (or amplifier) for L,R,C, LS, RS, Rear LS and RS and then 2 more in the 9.1 pre-amp

Try different sound modes to see if one wouldn't put out 9.1 sound even if it was at least duplication of rear channels

That is only 7 speakers. So I guessed you hooked the front height to the receiver to have the receiver drive those - is this correct?

Sounds like we need an email (not phone-call) to pioneer about this. I own the SC-07 (contemplating a changeout which is why I am here) so someone else that owns the SC-37 would probably be better at this.

Pioneer has not allowed any firmaware besides the HMG to be pushed to the consumer. So a firmaware is extremely unlikely once units are out and about

EDIT: I emailed

To clarify: On the SC-37 pre-outs, I have two Carver 1.5ts. One on the mains and one on the L&R surrounds. Using the on board amps of the SC-37, they power the rest of the speakers. This is how I can get sound from all 9 speakers. I didn't try all 9 speakers with just SC-37 amps. However, the Pioneer tech I talked with said that the on board amps will power all the speakers at the same time.

Bill

I think they can get away with this because on Dolby's sight, one of their setup choices with PLIIz is with no rear surrounds, to accommodate those who don't have any rears.



I really have not had any hand shake issues at least with my setup. Although I do have a problem with my Direct TV DVR recognizing my 3D adapter for my Mitsubishi TV if I run it through the AVR, I feel this is probably more of a Direct Tv issue more than the AVR it self. I will try to try out some head phones and let you know about that. Also the picture quality is really nice but I don't really run anything through it that might benefit from upscaling.

Look at the product sheet:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...iles/SC-37.pdf

9.1 Speaker Configuration

9.1 Pre-amp output

Yes, sorry I did not make myself clear, that's what I meant by SC-37 driving the front heights

What if the 37 drove the back rear speakers and the amp the height? Amplifier through 9.1 pre-out and height speakers to that amplifier

I hear you on "9.1 speaker configuration" however 9.1 pre-outs do exist. So I guess it is kind of misleading.

You know I think I did try this once but I guess it won't hurt to give it another shot later tonight.

if the pioneer tech told you this, you should disregard anything he told you, period... as this is simply impossible...

Putting aside this 9.1 issue. Just wondering if anyone has played around with the HEIGHT ADJUST setting. Low, Mid, High?

What do most of you that use height channels think sounds best?

Also, I decided to give up back surround for favor to height channels for 7.1. I do love the BIG soundstage you get( makes you feel more into movie. I can't wait to try Gladiator). Also now finding that only have 2 surrounds compared to 4 seems for spacious.

take this post for what it's worth... as i have not touched the avr in person...

i broke out my "pioneer manual secret decoder ring" and used it on pages 22, 23, 24, 27, 59, 60 and a few other snippets....

a key phrase from page 23...

"Sound does not come through simultaneously from the front height, front wide, speaker B and surround back speakers. Output speakers are different depending on the input signal or listening mode."

in "pioneer speak", that means only one of the 4 active at any one time...

it's also mentioned in several other places that it's 7.1 only at one given time... and when you piece together the info on the pages i noted, it's very clear...

now... in "reality", it may be different... but that is what the manual is telling you...

something else, re: the pink noise test. that's a red herring. it has no bearing on what the avr will actually produce when you are using it's dsp... you CAN connect 9 speakers to it, and when you run mcacc, it WILL recognize all 9 and shoot pink noise out of it... but that in no way means that you can use all 9 at one time...

re: the dolby spec. the dolby spec contains many things. that doesn't mean that every cem will implement every option.

ymmv...

You said it, Chris

I don't know how Pioneer gets 9 simultaneous channels out of a 7 channel amp, unless they've discovered a way to create energy out of nothingness, like breaking the Law of Conservation of Energy

And 99% of what an owner needs to know is clearly spelled out in the manual!

We've gone thru these kinds of questions in all the SC models, and most of time, the answer lies within

Pioneer Customer Support?? Well, this would be at least 2 totally FUBAR'd answers they've given out to people in this thread and the anticipation thread preceeding it and 1 completely bogus statement to an SC-09 owner; and these are only ones I recall right now because they happened fairly recently.

Words of Wisdom from several SC "gurus" - DON'T take as gospel what Pioneer phone support tells you!!! Come here & double check before you believe what they say.

^^^

true to all of dat...

see my post before yours for a decryption of what the manual says... it's actually pretty clear what it's saying...

one thing that i miss from this year's (as well as last year's) manuals is they don't have those big 6 page long tables that tells you EXACTLY what you will get with every setting (i.e. what happens when you apply pliix to any source, or thx or so on)... once you figured out how to read them, they were incredibly helpful...

Just read this in the manual. It's quite clear as is pg 115.

For some of you still wondering - the reason you have 9.1 speaker outputs is only for physically connecting them all up. But the actual physical number of amp channels in the receiver is only 7. They've made this so that 2 amp channels can be switched to the various speaker outputs depending on the settings you made - it also probably means you can use rears on some source material, wides on another & heights on yet another by changing the speaker settings, but you may have to run MCACC for all 3 configurations and save them as custom calibrations.

From the information given, it sounds like you need to use a 2 ch ext amp to power the heights/wides from the preamp outs.

I also don't own this thing, but have a lot of experience (like Chris) on SC's and previous models.

They clearly call this a 7.1 receiver not a 9.1

yes, if that's even possible... i can't find it noted anywhere how many channels the dsp's will process as implemented... since it's not definitively noted that it WILL do 9.1, i'd lean towards believing it would only do 7.1, regardless of pre-outs, until i actually see it do otherwise...

even as bad as pioneer manuals are, they would have noted somewhere in there that in order for 9.1 channels to be actually processed and output, a separate amplifier would be necessary... i might have missed it, but i didn't see that anywhere, either in the manual or the product cut sheet...

Yeah, you're right.

If true, this would not serve the needs of people who've been waiting for a 9.1 from Pioneer. A Denon 4810 killer, this is not

Too bad this may be another missed opportunity by Pioneer. Kind of reinforces where I think they **could** be going - SHARPland. Meaning providing the new features on paper but cutting corners to keep price down to sell more or just reduce costs. Chasing the low to no higher than mid-middle market.

But it WILL meet the needs of many here, so I'll extend a welcome to all newcomers to Ice-land! You'll enjoy this one.

fwiw, 8/22 do not contradict 60... note carefully how they worded it...

The issue is not the inability to power 9 speakers with 7amps. That was one person thinking this based on the CSR answer. It was dismissed quickly.

The issue is how do you power 9 speakers through this receiver with the use of a 2-channel amplifier. There is no sound format that shows 9.1 (I also miss the table that Chris references). There are multiple references in the manual for 9.1 setup - not 9 speakers but actual 9.1. There is 9.1 pre-amp on the receiver, but the owners cannot activate 9.1 speakers at one time.

It should absolutely be possible based on the manual and the fact that there is 9.1 pre-amp. What other function comes from the pre-amp otherwise???

I have the SC-07 - the manual is clear. I read the SC-27 manual it is pretty clear. This manual is not clear and has inconsistencies (see my post earlier and explain those contradictions please)

EDIT: Chris posted when I was writing this - looking at his post right now to see if I was incorrect


The issue here is getting sound through front wide and surround back at the same time. Not involving speaker B so in fact it seems like only 2 are active at the same time

Final note. I have emailed Pioneer with several questions through the last year. So far their answers have been correct. I have never called them

actually, no... there's nothing in the manual that makes it so...

the pre-amp is to allow people to use external amplification...

simply because there are 9 pre outs does not explicitly mean that all 9 are active at one time...

there are 9 sets of speaker binding posts too... but we've already established that you can only actually "use" 7 at a time...

I don't see it. Maybe I am stupid but I don't see it. It doesn't say 9 speaker setup. It says 9.1 surround system -- it wouldn't be a 9.1 surround system if sound couldn't come out of all speakers at once.

Then it would be a 9 speaker and 1 subwoofer setup.......

NOTE: I am not saying that the receiver would power a 9.1 system by itself - only that with amplifier it should be able to put out sound to the full 9.1 system

Well we are posting over eachother

But isn't the definition of 9.1 that it is one full system running at the same time? This is different than having ports for zone 2 and zone 3 speakers

Why would it be called 9.1 pre-amp if it was actually 2 additional speakers.....

To start over: This reasoning would allow a 7.1 speaker to be called so even if it only had one amp.... who said all 7 were active at one time.

I disagree with your reading guess we leave it at that. Waiting on my pioneer written reply

a note to new owners (and a reminder to some older ones)...

when reading the manual, assume nothing... don't try to read in between the lines... don't jump to conclusions...

nowhere in the manual does it say "9.1 surround sound"... it says "9.1 surround system"...

however, note that they say "7.1 surround sound" repeatedly...

they are making an explicit distinction between the two...

@mhdiab... read my last post...

you are attempting to impose "your" definition of a surround system...

Chris -- read my last post -- I disagree with you.

But since you are talking about my definition - how do you define this? Pioneers press release. Sure the marketing people are often wrong but is it my interpretation that is wrong when their own people interpret it the same way???.........

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ain+Transplant

Sound

For the first time, all models in the new line are programmed to deliver a highly customizable surround sound experience with Pioneer Wide Surround. This Pioneer original technology creates surround sound with a front wide speaker arrangement for a smooth feeling of motion and a wider sound field. Additional configurations for height and width have also been added, as well as a new virtual height option that delivers a full 9.1 surround sound experience.