"Official" Pioneer Elite SC-37 - Page 129

@purbeast: Audyssey provides room correction. It attempts to provide a smooth, relatively flat frequency response by using a microphone, included with the AVR, to measure the in-room response and compensate electronically (DSP). Pioneer uses MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration Circuit), Yamaha YPAO (Yamaha Parametric Room Acoustic Optimizer), etc. The biggest advantages claimed by Audyssey are more filters (bands of adjustment) and it does EQ the sub while Pionner's MCACC does not (only sets the level and delay). MCACC is user-adjustable out-of-the-box; Audyssey only with more expensive "installer-ready" models and you either pay a dealer to do it, or buy the package if you want to tweak it yourself (about $500 extra).

The Onkyo site lists the TX-NR809 as having XT (not the much more advanced XT32) and does not list subeq (no enahnced subwoofer EQ system); power specs are listed only for 2-channel operation (though 6-ohm specs are listed). Onkyo's rep has been tarnished by a rash of quality-control issues recently. The 809 is in the upper third or so of Onkyo's line while the 37 was essentially at the top of the Pioneer line, thus the 37 likely has more features. I'd get the Pio if just looking at those two, but as chris says it would be worth doing some reading and research into alternatives.

HTH - Don

That is correct, when i purchased it i didnt know i would get no warranty just because it was bought on Ebay. I DID KNOW THERE WAS A CHANCE BUT WHAT ARE THE ODDS THIS $2k RETAIL RECEIVER WONT LAST 2 YEARS RIGHT. I thought when you slap Elite on something you back it up no matter what. What i want is if Pioneer will not warranty this then they should at least take action against the Ebay seller to protect unsuspecting victims. He has plenty of Pioneer listed right now not mentioning he is not an authorized dealer and the warranty is zip. That is Pioneers responsibility is to protect those who buy their product. If he is selling shady they need take action against him.

Chris....when you get your 3D projector set up, would love to hear your thoughts. Although I've only watched a couple of 3D BDs, 3D ranges from WOW (Coraline) to "why did I waste my time" (the latter being the rule rather than the exception), if the 2D PQ wasnt't worthwhile, I wouldn't have bothered with 3D.

Fdiggy...best of luck. Hope you get your unit covered. The issue is, Pioneer sells to distributors, who in turn, sell to retailers (including etailers). Distributors aren't supposed to sell to unauthorized sources, but they do. Then, there are the grey area sales, which were never meant to be sold in North America.

The only way Pioneer can protect that from happening is to deny. Warranty On units not purchased from an unauthorized source.

That's an expensive lesson.

No, it's your responsibility to be an educated consumer.

Pioneer couldn't be more clear on their site about unauthorized dealer transactions not being in warranty. They also have a search function that allows you to easily identify authorized dealers. Add to that that the home page for internet authorized vendors clearly states that no Elite products are sold via that channel, and ANY Elite product bought via the Internet will not have a warranty, and there was ample opportunity to invest one minute to see what you were getting into with the Ebay seller.

Why anyone would invest significant money in a product without performing basic research escapes me, particularly given that Ebay has long been known for gray market deals. Would you buy a new Ford from an Ebay reseller and assume you get the factory warranty on that as well?

Expecting any corporation to act as a nanny and protect you in lieu of personal responsibility rarely works out well.

Throw some negative feedback at them on ebay.

Well if you do buy a new Ford on eBay it would be covered by the manufacturers warranty. The warranty follows the PRODUCT not decisioned on what venue it was purchased. New car dealers sell new cars on eBay all day everyday. I know I work in the auto industry. What PIONEER is doing is asking the consumer to police there poor control of their distirbution network and penalizing the consumer. Same goes for other electronics companies who have similar policies.

I have to ask why do all of you believe its the consumers fault? I researched this unit before purchasing and I don't recall capturing this warranty information clause. If they are genuine Pioneer products they should be covered. We registered our receiver a day after we opened the box if it was a problem they simply could have run the serial number and notified us and we could have acted on that information, none of that happened. It is their responsibility as a manufacturer, distributor, warrantor and service company to stand behind and control their products.

If they are knock off receivers then I can see denying the claim legitimately; I don't believe they are and that's the problem here. Pioneer is "coping" out on these claims. I hope someone from Pioneer reads this stuff since they really need to take responsibilty for the problems with their product(s). What someone paid for it new is irrelevant.

I've said my peace; reply as you see fit.

I really dont think anyone but you read all that before purchasing a receiver.
I did read that on the warranty card when i needed it.

It also states must have receipt. So according to you anyone getting a gift without a receipt gets 0 Warranty?

Without getting into the rest of it, I would report the seller to Pioneer if they are claiming (incorrectly) to be authorized, esp. for Internet sales (which Pio clearly states are not allowed for the Elite series). Perhaps they'll help out...

I'm sure most people buying electronics costing decent money do basic research on performance and warranty prior to purchase.

Anyone who receives a gift can call the authorized reseller and get a copy of the receipt when needed, so the unit would be covered. Or ask the gift giver for a copy.

Are that many people receiving Pio Elite gear as gifts? I must need better/wealthier friends :-)

Without a receipt how is a manufacturer supposed to know the unit isn't stolen or a used item trying to be repaired by someone other than the original owner?

Or find out that the item is still in the covered period?

It is almost a requirement from any electronics manufacturer, much less any big ticket item provider.

If someone gifts a $2k item to another, you would think a receipt would be a logical part of said big ticket item gift.

IMO, it is only common sense that on these big ticket electronics, someone offering these items at a substantial discount are doing so for a reason. Not maintaining an authorized dealer storefront would rank highly on my list of where the discount comes from.

While I understand that the buyer can get trapped into believing they are getting a warranty, they also should be aware enough to be able to check out a manufacturers website if they are spending such a large amount of money on a purchase.

If they are computer savvy enough to shop on eBay with a valid PayPal account, they are savvy enough to do the online research on their purchases.

If you really are so unaware that you didn't understand the ins and outs of the warranty of said product, with a valid receipt I can only think someone at Pioneer or any company would hear your case.

If not, consider the lesson learned about their policy and vote next time with your pocketbook.

Just be aware, that most every AVR and pre/pro manufacturer has the same type of policies and your choices will be few.

Since my SC-35 crapped out i went back using the 1019. Today i found i didnt only upgrade for 3D but because the 1019 from day 1 has had HDMI handshake issues. Bought at BB but i didnt want the hassle of being without completely by sending it for repair so i just lived with it for 18 months till upgrading to the SC-35. I would just have to cycle the HDMI back and fourth and video would come back. But it was a headache.
So there, they owed me some warranty service. 2 Receivers of theirs in a row faulty. They will be fixing this one.

Again saying it on warranty card is not law. Its just to chase most from asking them for service and eating it themselves. Apparently it works very well.

And ya know thats why i found a deal on the SC-35 too, i bought the 1019 at BB for $550 and 1 month later newegg had it for $400. And again mine had an issue its entire lifespan. Thats what i got for buying local from an authorized reseller.

Pioneer's warranty policy is clearly stated on their web site and is both legal and common practice amongst consumer electronics manufacturers. As Fimmixer stated, if your purchasing criteria includes a receiptless warranty for gear acquired from an unauthorized dealer, your choices will either be very limited or non existent.

All of my Pioneer Elite stuff has worked like a dream for years. My Pioneer Elite DV37 has been going strong for over 10 years, my Pioneer Elite DV59- AVI has been going strong for over 7 years, both of my Pioneer BD 05 AND 51 FD players work just fine as well as my Pioneer G9 Kuro. Never had a prob with any of them.

As for my black market Pioneer Elite SC35 i bought for cheap, it's been doing fine for a few months now.

So can you tell me if this is like what your SC-35 was doing? I will turn mine on and lets say listen to Pandora off of the BDP-52, or stream off apple tv. and mine will out of no where make a "pop" which i have found it is making because it turns itself off then right back on. What is weird i have not seen it do it while watching a BD on the player, only streaming or listening to music. It has however done it while i was in the set up menu twice in a matter of like 10 min.Is this similar to what your was doing? what did they say was the problem?

I have bought several pioneers and never been denied warranty service. They just asked for a copy of my original receipt

I found someone else post is exactly my problem

I was listening to my SC-37 and then suddenly it turned off. When I tried to power up again it shut down after a few seconds and the ipod/iphone light blinks.

Looks as if its the power supply.

Mine is really random but the ipod light never comes on, mine will shut off and then immediately turn back on by itself. really weird whats weird also like i said i haven seen it do it while I am watching stuff or have anything moving across the screen.

I had a Pioneer CT-6 and A-6 components back in the late 80's and the auto reversing cassette deck broke and the receiver lost a channel not long after purchase so I switch to Technics stuff which seemed more reliable. I gave that Technics stuff to my father who still uses it today.

When we were shopping for a do it all receiver after selling off a 10 year old Sony 5.1 rack system I bought the SC-37. As I stated this is receiver #2 with a problem within a year. My failure rate for Pioneer is 100% so far. That's just my experience with there products and if they do in fact deny warranty on this unit then I'm done with them forever.

If they repair my receiver and don't cancel the remaining warranty then I'll keep it. If they don't I'll pay to fix it and list it for sale on Craig's list and eBay.

for those of you who have the new Elite receivers, would you recommend it to someone who is pretty discriminating, and leans towards separates, AND had a very troublesome Pioneer receiver in 1979? I swore off ever buying a Pioneer receiver at that time and went to NAD in 1980.( I still own it).
I am currently running a Cambridge Audio AVR(it lacks several features).

What i have been noticing last couple days after downgrading to the 1019 from an Elite SC-35 i havent lost anything i use.
The Elite had internet, i never used it.
It was 3D capable, never got to using that.
It had THX, dont notice a difference when its on other than the logo lights up.
(I think THX is just a License you purchase than can add to your product for marketing)
To me from experience if it was me id pick up the 1020 just to be ready for 3D.
1020 $300
Elite SC-50 series $2K+
The Elite line is suppose to be better built and all and it is 50lbs compared to 20lbs but the Elite is 3 months old and sitting on floor dead next to the almost 2 yr old receiver im back using.

There's something I learned about the mass produced Japanese receivers a few years ago. I had a Sony ES receiver fail me when it was 6 years old.
I took it to a authorized repair dealer and he told me that an output IC had failed. About 2 years later an output IC failed again. This time the service guy said that he could resolder everything for $250. He told me that when these components go through hundreds of heat and cool down cycles the solders can break causing a cold solder which causes an arc, which will blow a fuse but also will probably blow an output IC or driver as he called it.
I sold the unit to a friend and it has been going strong for 4 years now with no further problems.
So I would think long and hard before I would pay full retail or this kind of money for a unit that is probably consturcted no better than the cheaper unit you are using now. Just my opinion.

+1

especially when it says all over the Pioneer, onkyo, Denon et al websites that products not purchased from an authorized dealer will not have a warranty

Warren

really?

and more importantly what was the sound like between the two

Sometimes..make that many times...a more complicated product will fail more often

Simply because there is so much more going on

would you expect a Toyota Camry to me more reliable than an Lexus LS460?

I would....and I am sure on statistical level the Camry is more reliable and is cheaper to fix than the Lexus
They are both modes of transportation

why does the Lexus buyer make his choice to spend several times more than he could for a car that has the same primary purpose as the much less expensive alternative?

Warren

thats a pretty steep repair bill for a solder ..and no offense on a 6 year old Sony ES

to your point though about mass produced Japanese receivers

The end of line for these things and other market conditions mean that they sell for far below MSRP
That and the fact that you can be behind the technology curve and frankly the item is not worth fixing

then there are all these refurb sites selling Onkyo..Denon etc

Some of the Onkyo refurbs can get so inexpensive that you could not justify a repair

Any more..you can spend $200-300 at an audio repair shop easily

You have to question that when you can shop around a buy a refurb that could be a better unit for less than $500


Warren

When it broke the second time. It blew an output IC and something else and he added solder to everything he thought might could cause a problem later on.
The unit is now 12 years old and still running great.

I am using the supplies RF device on my SC-37 along with the IR blasters. I having a problem with the command be received twice by my Oppo BDP-93.

Anyone observed this or have a suggestion for a solution? My other 2 devices work great!

you can always roll the dice

I don't know how cheap you bought it for...but one trip to the shop can cost easily $250

so its about hedging your bets

it would be very hard for me to spend much on one of these without warranty....I guess it if was new in box( and I knew that for sure)...if it was say $500 less than what I could find elsewhere I would be tempted

Hopefully you got it cheap

Warren

The pros can answer that better.
The SC-35 went to 35 for normal audio listening.
The 1019 normal is 30. I think that makes a difference in audio quality but the average user doesnt hear that difference.
Both will shake a 20X22 room in action movies with no distort break up at all.
Im also not using hi end speakers, i have $1,200 7 speaker setup of Accoustechs and a $600 HU research sub. Got sub on Ebay for $300 shipped.


Upgrading speakers from 15yr old Yamaha small satellites to the Accustechs made a big difference in sound quality. Hear things i never did before.

Funny, i noticed the advertisement banner at bottom of page when not signed in takes you to unauthorized resellers of pioneer.

i take today my SC-37 to pioneer repair center for the ipod/iphone light blinks and shutoff problem, all i have to say im glad that i brought my from authorize dealer, i still have 1/7 moths of warranty left