2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series) - Page 50

Originally Posted by nicholc2

There's a test pattern on the AVS disc that can be used to set sharpness. For sharpness, you want to have it set so that the picture does not get soft, but also does not add anything to the image. If you look at small lettering, that isn't too difficult to see as you change the sharpness control. You'll see the text get soft or start having a ghosting shadow depending on where the slider is. You want it right in the middle.

Originally Posted by morphinapg

Did you (or anyone else) test these TVs with the Full RGB test pattern I posted earlier? If the result is that these TVs simply don't recognize a Full signal, then obviously the ps3 should be set to limited, but I have a hard time believing that any set released in the last 5 years wouldn't recognize a full RGB signal. I even have a 6 year old TV that does.

There are two schools of thought on the whole limited vs full, and I believe we've both described both. I'll stick to Full RGB as long as the set supports it and you can go with Limited if you want, I just feel the ps3 does a better job representing the original YCbCr information in a Full RGB signal due to YCbCr -> RGB conversion issues.

Originally Posted by nicholc2

That test pattern that you gave a link to doesn't even represent the full spectrum of gray. It only goes up to 50-55% max, so that isn't a good example.

Believe what you wish, but let me assure you that newer TVs are expecting 16-239 as RGB video and when you send them Full from a PS3 you are clipping both black and white information. The TV performs no conversion whatsoever and the PS3 sends what it sends depending on how you have it set up.

If you want the best video from your PS3, send VCbCr for video. RGB will be used for games regardless.

What set do you have, btw?

Originally Posted by bsevern

Thanks, this is good info.

I was looking at getting this TV stand:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...S&Sp=C&topnav=

It's 26.75" tall, so that would make it about 2-4" too tall according to your calculations? But I assume that the reason your said to measure floor to eye height when sitting is for the optimal TV center point height?

Originally Posted by morphinapg

The test pattern I posted has test boxes in the 0-16 range. If the TV supports Full RGB, you should be able to see the boxes when you turn up your brightness. Set your ps3 to full rgb and open the image. If you turn the brightness all the way up and don't see the boxes, your set doesn't support Full RGB. It's a simple test. It doesn't need to show the whole spectrum, just a range outside of Limited RGB. If the TV only supports limited, then all the boxes will be crushed to 16 RGB and you won't be able to see them.

My old set that supports Full RGB is an old CRT, Samsung TX-P3075WH. The LCD that supported it was a Sceptre x37sv-Naga. However, I've seen Full RGB working properly on other new sets as well (don't remember their model #s)

Also, I can't use YCbCr for DVI on the old set, and I have to use overscan mode to use YCbCr on the LCD. So I have to use RGB in both cases for best picture.

Originally Posted by nicholc2

OK, I'll give you that much. If the TV truly supports PC for RGB or 0-255, then you would see all of them with the PS3 set to Full and it would clip some with it set to limited. This works conversely for TVs that do not support PC input and use standard RGB 16-239. For those, you have to use Limited or black and white are clipped. But that's what I've been saying all along. Some TVs handle RGB like a PC monitor does and some handle it as video which is the proper way it should be handled.

This was evident on my WD-62725 as it handled RGB as Full, but since my TW DVR output RGB as limited, my blacks suffered, but there was nothing that I could do about that. With my new 73738 which handles RGB as video, it looks much, much better.

The other two items I cannot speak to as I'm not familiar with how either of those TVs handle RGB or YCrCb.

Originally Posted by morphinapg

I was just wondering if these DLPs actually read RGB 16-235 since they are (as well as most new TVs) supposed to support PC input over HDMI via the specs.

Originally Posted by nicholc2

Newer TVs will support RGB 16-239, not 0-255. That's what they are supposed to do.

That is why Uverse, TW, DirecTV, etc send it that way because that's what the specification is.

Originally Posted by morphinapg

That may be the specification, but I've seen far more newer TVs support Full RGB than older TVs. Most older TVs that supported RGB only supported Limited RGB, but almost every new TV that is coming out supports PC input, which is Full RGB, so most newer TVs also support Full RGB for HDMI.

Just about any DVI device (other than PCs) will only support limited RGB, but since HDMI was released, most HDMI devices support both modes.

Can somebody with a PS3 and one of these TVs please just test this using the test pattern I provided above? It only takes a few minutes to do, and I have a feeling most of the people here are simply assuming the TV only supports limited RGB, when it most likely supports Full RGB as well. If it didn't I'd be extremely surprised.

Originally Posted by wellingtonbear

Stabledave, capra, TViewer2000, and I are all kinda in the same boat. Although I think we all have black screens, I've never seen a green screen on mine. Does it only do this after the TV has been off for a while?

FYI, Stable Dave has described his problem to Mits and they are sending out a tech to replace a part, we're waiting for his outcome to see if it fixes the issue so that we can do the same.

Originally Posted by Stable Dave

Thanks, I'd be interested to hear how you make out. I just spoke with a tech and when I told him everything I did he said it sounds like they need to replace the digital board. He's ordering parts and will be out next week. I'll report back.

Originally Posted by capra1628

Received call-back from MITS in regard to my HDMI input problem (see earlier post #1393). Was told it was decided to send me the latest f/w update 12.05 in the hopes that it will correct the problem. If it doesn't, we will go from there. Could be up to a week before I receive it (on a flashdrive). So, they do call back, and glad they are making an effort to get to a solution. Will get back here with the results, good or bad. It may be just a process of elimination.

Originally Posted by nicholc2

Actually, what I suggest is that you post that as a new thread in the calibration forum and make it a poll thread. Here, you're mainly only going to get folks that own the 38 series Mits which definitely only support Limited RGB, so that isn't an accurate test.

Also so, there, you'll get more feedback from folks that test and calibrate TVs every day.

Originally Posted by morphinapg


Except I don't care about the other sets. I'm interested in buying a 60638 or 60738 and am interested in if it supports Full RGB, and not simply from an assumption, from someone who actually does the test to find out. My guess is it would, especially since it supports PC input on HDMI, but I would like to hear it from someone who tests it out on their PS3 with that test pattern I linked to.

Originally Posted by bbeezley

I bet there's some options for you to get creative and support the speaker above the TV by combining support of the front of the speaker shelf on the top of the TV, and the back of the shelf supported with either a bracket coming off your back wall, or maybe coming up from the back of the stand or as already said, a pair of wires from the ceiling.

I once supported a 70 lb turntable from the ceiling using some very small caliber braided steel cable they sell at Home Depot. Then they sell little aluminum cylinders that crimp on to the cable to create a "hold" under the speaker shelf, or to make a loop at the top to put over a hook. It came out looking very classy and professional.

Originally Posted by bsevern

Put the 65737 in your cart and once you check out it automatically gets upgraded to the 65738 on your invoice and email receipt, or you can call them as well.

I was ready to pull the trigger on the WD-60738 60-inch set for $1249, can't believe I'm getting the 65" model for $50 less

Now I need to figure out what 1.4HDMI AV receiver to get....don't really want to spend more then $500 so I'm looking at the Onkyo TX-SR608 or the Denon AVR-791....need to research them here first.

Originally Posted by nezff

I know I wont really be happy until I get the tv at the proper level. I am also trying to figure out how to make the tv stand look good also in all this madness. If I could somehow find a way to do a component rack, I could then make the stand however short I wanted to compensate for sitting and reclining. The tv is 6 foot wide which leaves me a couple feet on each side to make identical cabinets to hold components. I cant push the speakers out too far because they will hit the sloping ceiling.

Originally Posted by bsevern

I assume that with the Mitsubishi 3D starter kit it makes the firmware update a mute point (at least from the 3D compatibility perspective), BUT I wonder what else it will fix. Any update on it being released?

Originally Posted by kevin04

73738 - had this for a week now
there is a small fly inside the tv fllying,
dont know how it got in there

is there a way to get it outside?
i am scared it might fall on the bulb

Thanks

Originally Posted by capra1628

Received call-back from MITS in regard to my HDMI input problem (see earlier post #1393). Was told it was decided to send me the latest f/w update 12.05 in the hopes that it will correct the problem. If it doesn't, we will go from there. Could be up to a week before I receive it (on a flashdrive). So, they do call back, and glad they are making an effort to get to a solution. Will get back here with the results, good or bad. It may be just a process of elimination.

Originally Posted by nicholc2

I have made no assumptions. I tested it on my 73738. It behaves as it should. This TV displays better via YCbCr anyway.

This tv operates with the ps3 set to limited. No matter how many people test it, that isn't going to change.

Originally Posted by AmpBlast

No, please refer to my previous post. I gave you ideal stand height for your 65738 based on TYPICAL eye heights ranging from 38" - 42", which came out to stand heights ranging from 15.25" - 19.25". This 26.75" tall stand is probably too high, but the only way to know for sure is to measure YOUR eye height from floor when sitting. All these numbers really don't mean anything until you accurately determine YOUR eye height from floor while sitting.

Yes, the idea is to get the center of the screen, not the tv, to be at the same distance from the floor as your eye is, and thus the calculation I provided. This is crucial for DLP tvs as compared to other technologies.

Sorry if there is still some confusion, tell you what if you would go and measure your eye height from floor while sitting where you will view your set, I will calculate the ideal stand height for ya !

Originally Posted by morphinapg

My main concern is since I am intending to use this set as a PC monitor. As it states that it supports PC input, it should also support Full RGB. Any TV that can accept Full RGB will accept Limited RGB properly as well, so it's not as if a TV supporting Full RGB would be behaving in some way other than it should. Did you do the test with the same sort of pattern of boxes that are mapped to 0-16, or 235-255? If you do a simple ramp from 0-255, it's much harder to tell if the set is clipping the blacks or whites. Also, you can't just do the test at one brightness or contrast mode. If your test has boxes in the 0-16 range, you need to increase brightness to see if your TV supports them. If your test has boxes in 235-255, you need to either decrease brightness or contrast to see if your TV supports full mode, and obviously your PS3 has to be in full mode when you do the test.

If you're not going to do the test, I might as well email Mitsubishi and ask them. I just thought Id ask the owners here to test it out properly, since last time I emailed them it took them weeks before I got a response.

Originally Posted by bsevern

This is interesting, as I suppose if one were to change furniture, or watch TV while laying on your sofa as opposed to sitting on it, you would be out of tune with your optimal viewing sweat spot

I measured my viewing height, and it's 37" +/- 1" .

Thanks,
Brian

Originally Posted by gtgray

Good Grief... you can run either PC level or Video level signals into the set. You adjust the levels according, you can run different color spaces at the source. Just be prepared to not really get what you thnk you are getting. The drivers do weird things. Lots of different registry hacks to get all working right with Radeon. Current Nvidia is pretty straightforward but there cards are just now begining to support bitstreaming of HD audo.

. Do you have any idea how many thousands of us have PCs connected to our TV sets? PCs do different things with different settings on the video card/driver. You would like to send a video level signal because it means that the PC should be relatively close on calibration with your standard consumer electronics devices. To show you how weird it is to get video level output of out a current ATI card and drivers you set the Pixel Format to YCbCr 444 for video with the dynamic range set to 0-255. This produces your normal 16-235 video levels. Yeah you set it to 0-255 to get 16-235.

I have a intel i3 with a Radeon HD5450 set that way and PowerDVD and Media Center with the proper tweak both are using the same levels as my Tivo HD and my Panasonic BD-320. I know I just got done measuring with a real meter.. as usual morphinapg, you are way out there. If you are using an Nvidia Card you will probably select 16-235 if you intend to use the PC an HTPC.. It does not matter anyway because you have full control of brightness and contrast for each input. The TV does not care if you use RGB or YCbCr 444 it does the conversion either way. You may get some slight banding if you do to many conversions. Otherwise it don't matter. Again I have the same brightness and contrast setting for my Tivo HD, Pioneer BD-320 and my HTPC.. in fact they are all going into HDMI 1 through my DVDO Duo.

If you want to know about the different graphics cards, their drives and getting color spaces and levels to match up, go hang out in the Home Theater PC section. PCs can drive you crazy with this stuff... but the folks over there can guide you if you are ever willing to listen anyone.

Originally Posted by dcg44s

You could also go the simple route and buy a board and pair of L brackets to make a shelf attached to the wall ablove the TV.That would move the speaker back some but I don't think that would hurt anything ,unless you just didn't like the looks.