2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series) - Page 52

Is it just me or are the blue lights on the front of the direct TV reciever very irritating while watching 3d?

Don't send him to me...

BTW, my Duo VP is set to Auto on output. Which means it goes by the EDID information that the Mits is providing to determine how it sets the ouput to send to the Mits and the format is selects to send is YCbCr 444 and 36 bit.

This is regardless of the input color space or video level. From the tests I have done manually trying different input color spaces and video levels the 444 going to the Mits produces the least objectionable best looking results. Sending it in 36bit produces the smoothest gray ramp and seems not to crunch the blacks. What is nice about the Duo is that you get an accurate reporting of what is coming in from a source and what the VP is sending out. Source devices sometimes do something other than what you think based on the settings selected. PC video cards are especially weird and they could very well be different from driver version to driver version.

Full BTB/WTW come trough pretty much regardless of source.. Yes there are ways to get a particualr source not to send BTB/WTW but generally someone has to work at it on modestly recent/modern devices.

I will have to check the PS3 going through my gear to the Mits but I don't expect anything else. I know for a fact I have seen BTB/WTW on the PS3 attached to other sets in my house. I just never had a reason to run the PS3 on the Mits until now. I have the 3d adapter coming and I will test the PS3 later in the week in 3d mode. I will report back into this thread after that. Caveat that mine is a 2009, though I would be astonished if the way 2010 handles all but 3d input is any different between model years. I was just at my brother's house tonight where sits my Samsung 2008 72" DLP and we used exactly the same tweaks I have run on my ATI graphics card HTPC to his HTPC.

This allowed him to get his onboard Radeon graphics controller to run PowerDVD 10, Win 7 Media Center video material encoded in both HD and SD all at the correct (video) levels. His set passed BTB, WTW and did not clip white. Unfortunately is does like so many TVs have trouble with clipping green.

I did not calibrate his set tonight just set the levels and I used the Spears and Munsil BD Benchmark for the test patterns. I never put a meter on that set when I had it in my living room and I can't for the life of me remember how it was set up at that time but what I found interesting is that my eyes have become so much better trained than they used to be then. All those meter readings I guess.

Since I have calibrated the Mits so many times. I found I can visually remember fairly closely what a 6500k grayscale ramp should look like and what HD 709 color bars should look like.

When the Sammy 2008 DLP set was in Cinema mode and set to warm 1, a combination which should have been the closest to calibrated using presets or any other color temp for that matter, the HD color bars were way off. We set it to Normal mode and to the warmest color temp available in the Normal preset which was also called Normal and the color bars immediately looked right. Grayscale was not the right color temp, it was too cold clearly, but it was close enough that suddenly even without a meter the set looked smashing on his HTPC .

Most likely you will get some color clipping on the Mits sets no matter what you do unless you have the contrast down a lot. Is that what you are seeing on your new baby? I am anxious to hear more about it when that lamp is burned in.

Press them-they turn off.

In general (there may be exceptions), the video display will accept whatever is sent to it. Disc players generally default to YCbCr 4:2:2 output - but it never hurts to check that the player is set to that format.

AVRs that have video processing can change the format also so you need to look at the processing settings in the AVR as well - if there are any.

Even though the TV will probably handle what you send it correctly, it never hurts to check the settings in the TV also.

You can change signal formats on HDMI and Component. But there's no value to using component today unless you MUST use it for some reason. Component cables carry analog video so digital sources have to be converted to analog. When they arrive at a modern TV, the signal will be converted back to digital for processing - 2 conversion steps that should be avoided to get the best possible images. When you use HDMI, you use digital component signals that stay in the digital domain all the way from source to display.

Yes, you did. You said it would increase the color depth. It does NOT increase the color depth - that would require more information than exists in the original video signal.


Nobody ever said to use "Limited" RGB mode, nor to turn Super White OFF. You should NEVER clip anything above 235... it's perfectly "legal" to have data above 235... and as I've said a couple of times, the Cb and Cr values go to 240 anyway, only Y is "235". Specular highlights ARE "legal" and they do exist in many movies and neither the display, nor the disc player, nor the AVR/processor should clip any data above 235. Data below 16 is generally just an error and it won't be visible when the Brightness control is adjusted correctly. 235 is NOT a "hard limit" and a properly setup display WILL show values up to 254. 255 is "reserved" and should never appear in a legitimate 16-235 YCbCr signal.


When there's no choice, you do what you have to do. That doesn't mean it provides the best possible result.

So I'm reviewing an 838 with the 3D Starter Kit. Been trying to get 3D to work for a week or a little more. Got it working today.

Problem turned out to be... the HDMI 1.4 AVR that worked fine with Sony and Panasonic 3D displays and Sony and Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players would not pass the 3D EDID code that is sent by the converter box to the disc player.

When I connected the disc player (Sony BDP-S470) to the Mitsu converter box, the disc player saw the 3D EDID code fine and I got 3D images for the first time.

So I tried using the output of the converter box as an input to the HDMI 1.4 AVR hoping I could get audio and video via HDMI... no luck with that... no output at all from the AVR.

This is the 3rd 3D display I've had here and it is the only one so far to have ZERO crosstalk artifacts! I checked Coraline and Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs for the spots where both the Sony LCD and Panasonic plasma 3D displays had ghost/crosstalk artifacts and none of them existed on the 838. The lower resolution of checkerboard mode vs. frame-pack mode is barely detectable. You have to know what you are looking for and where to look for it to find any evidence at all that checkerboard mode has close to half the resolution of frame-packed 3D. Daylight scenes seem a bit dark even with Contrast set to 63... going to try setting the lamp to Bright to see if that makes daylight scenes look brighter. Oddly, night scenes do NOT look too dark.The Mitsubishi 3D shutter glasses don't look as fancy as the Sony or Panasonic glasses, but they seem to weigh about half as much - and they are the most comfortable I've used so far, aside from polarized glasses in IMAX or RealD theaters.

For those wondering about the Disney sampler disc... 22 minutes... a little Timon and Pumba in 3D (not from the original movie) but it's very View-Master-like (layered 3D not natural 3D... paper ships on paper waves sort of thing). Clips from A Christmas Carol, very very brief moments from The Polar Express (looks like I'll have to pay for that movie AGAIN - probably my favorite 3D movie next to Avatar), Trailer for Alice in Wonderland, clip from G-Force (with a daylight scene), clip from The Nightmare Before Christmas, trailers for A Cristmas Carol and Toy Story 3. And a classic-era Donald Duck/Chip N Dale cartoon converted to 3D in the View-Master (paper ships on paper waves) style... not something particularly impressive or that I'd want to watch again. The clip from A Christmas Carol had the lead-in to the flying scene - pretty amazing detail in Scrooge's face and in the orchard they flew through. Having seen Mitsubishi's, Sony's and Panasonic's 3D demo discs, I'd say they all have some good demo material, no clear winner, though Panasonic's disc was a bit light on feature movie clips or trailers.

I was expecting to not like 3D on the 838 much because of the lower-res checkerboard format, but I have to say... I'm pleasantly surprised by how good it is.

The unit is made by a company named Furnitech (Model FT72CC), and I bought it from Dynamic Home Theater for about $850. It was a bit more than I wanted to spend, but it is one heck of a solid piece of furniture (Brazilian hardwood).

Great review! It seems like numbers don't tell the whole story when it comes to human perception, and the illusion that is inherent in all visual reproduction.

Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post, but is your review model a 73838 or an 82838?

Never saw Polar Express!

taichi4

I threw the component cabinet idea around also. I have basically three options: one would be to build the stand short and wide to house the center channel and all the components. Another would be to have the same stand but lower the center channel down and make piers or cabinets even with the top of the tv on each side to hold everything including future components. The option would be to have one pier or component rack on one side of the tv or two piers but have them end at the middle of the tv. I'm thinking I like the piers even with the top or a wide stand

I've noticed a huge improvement by making these few simple changes. Thank you.

I just got my 73738 from Paul's TV for a low price - THANKS GUYS!!!

It seems to me the Mitsubishi guys really screwed up the input selection. My old Mits 65907 had the input botton show you the current input and if you pressed it again, it changed to the next input in the list, etc. With the new one, I have to press input, then arrow keys, then the enter button to change the input - what a pain in the a**.

The old way was easy to use with other learning remotes (I want RF because stuff is behind a cabinet) - for example, on my DVD page for my remote, I had the TV input button, so you could change the input to the DVD input.

But I can't figure out how to do this with my new 73738 because I want the selection arrows to work the DVD not the TV.

Any ideas?

What kind of remote? A harmony can use discrete codes.

I have harmony and used this guy's suggestion to get it working.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=932

It's pain to have two TVs in my remote... but it does its job. I guess I can try to set up my 73738 using other TV completely but I didn't want to mess with what's working.

That's discouraging. I currently have an older HDMI receiver that is 1.2, so I was thinking about updating to a current receiver, but if this is how it works, then that wouldn't really do anything for me as I have a PS3 that will be my 3D player, so I guess I'll have to hook up the optical for sound when watching 3D and bypass the receiver for video.

My PS3, Sony BD player, and media center PC all pass through my Onkyo receiver to the 3D box with no problems. Do you perhaps have a Yamaha receiver? My brother's 1.4 Yamaha required a firmware update to work (also using a PS3 and Sony BD).

That's less discouraging. ;-)

I was hoping to hear something like this, as I have a new Onkyo receiver but do not have the Mitsubishi 3D adapter to test it out yet.

My main concern is that I will be able to use my Samsung BD-C6900 with my receiver and the adapter (not holding my breath for the firmware update). Even though I am not in a huge hurry to go 3D I should somehow get the Mitsubishi 3D Starter Pack locally and try it out and if it doesn't work I can easily return it (even though I think locally they are all on backorder). That way I will know if I should keep my BD-C6900 or dump it for the BD-C7900 or maybe better yet the Panasonic DMP-BDT100 or DMP-BDT300.

If anyone has had success with a Samsung 3D blu-ray player and Onkyo receiver with the Mitsubishi 3D adapter please let me know!

Just a reminder that if you recently bought a Mit Dlp you get a FREE 3D starter kit!
http://www.mitsubishi3dtv.net/

I experienced this problem today Had the set for less than a week. Mine was manufactured in July also. How do you tell the current firmware version?

It's a Univeral Remote Control RF20, relatively cheap, but supports RF. No USB support, just learning option and general manufacturer code sets.

I wasn't debating with you. I took your word for it that these TVs only accept Limited, I just thought that was weird.


The only way I've seen PS3 send BTB/WTW is via YCbCr and "Super White" mode. No other modes seem to output BTB/WTW information. Then again, shouldn't a TV that's calibrated properly clip the BTB/WTW information anyway? I could understand if that data still shows with the brightness all the way down or the contrast all the way up, but isn't Black supposed to be the darkest color outputted on your TV, and White the brightest?

btw, if a set can read BTB/WTW shouldn't it also theoretically be able to read Full RGB properly?


No, I said Full RGB has more color depth than Limited RGB, as it has 6 million+ more colors (in the black to white range). I also said the conversion from YCbCr to Full RGB would be more accurate than to Limited RGB because of those extra colors. However, any conversion to RGB will lose some color depth when compared to the original YCbCr because of the nature of the conversion.


Well, actually people said you should use Limited RGB mode on the PS3, as that outputs 16-235. However, the PS3 strangely clips data from 0-16 and 235-255. I don't know why. I actually thought you were supposed to set your contrast as high as it can go without clipping "white" (whether that's 235 or 255 on your signal). You're saying it's okay to have your contrast lower, so that it can see the WTW signal? Wouldn't that make White/235 data more like light grey?


The best possible result for those sets, at least. I'd definitely use YCbCr for video with these sets since I can, obviously. However for PC and gaming on the PS3, I still need to use RGB, and I would prefer the ability to do 0-255 if I could.

I've had a 73838 for about two weeks. I'm happy with it except one issue: the voice and the video are out of sync. I've tried to read most of the posts here but haven't found a similar problem reported yet. Has anyone else experienced this? The voice trails the video slightly. The problem is the same with both Cox Cable and D*. HDMI on both.

Also I would be interested in opinions: I purchased the 73838 at the Big Screen Store. Today I received an e-mail saying that they have a clearance sale on the 82738 for the same price that I paid for the 73838. I'm thinking about an exchange since I'm inside of the 30 day period. There seem to be issues with 738, which is probably why they are discontinuing it. I'm not that interested in 3D and primarily watch sports and movies.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Press MENU and note the number in the lower left hand area of the Menu screen. That number is your s/w version.

Checkerboard should pass through. So far it does when sourced from my HTPC through the DVDO Duo which is 1.3. I haven't tried passthrough on my reciever because the Duo will split HDMI audio off from a combined HDMI Video and Audio stream and send the Audio stream to an audio only HDMI port which is how I choose to connect to the reciever.

Where did you hear that they were discontinuing the 738 series?
I have the 82-738 and it is completely problem free---so far!

I've had it since the end of July. The problems you read about on this forum are limited to a relatively few people. You rarely hear anything from those who have no trouble with their sets.

If in fact Mits is discontinuing the 82-738, which I seriously doubt, it is probably just a too many models and to many price points deal. My guess is this retailer is just not going to cary that particular SKU anymore because the pricing is too close to the 73838.

Thanks for rubbing it in for those of us who bought ours a little too soon!

I believe these sets do in fact auto update. I'm 99.9% sure that I was at 12.04 and just checked and am now at 12.05. If I could find the piece of paper that I wrote the version on when I received the set I could say for sure.

Of course right after posting I remember where I put it. My set was at 12.04 and is now at 12.05 so it definately updated itself.

Mine is at 12.02
I have no issues, but I always like to have the latest firmware on my computers, so it goes with my TV's also.
Right now I have my Oppo using my Ethernet cable.
Please let us know if the firmware does update automatically so I can swap the cable. It's behind everything so I only want to swap it if it is necessary.
Thanks!