2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series) - Page 54

I'm really on the fence between getting a PS3 slim or a LG BX580 Network 3D Blu-ray DVD player for my 3D BD DVD player. If the PS3 didn't have the audio quality reduction issue, to me it would be a no brainer, and who know's, perhaps they'll come up with a fix for this....if we're going 3D it would be fun to have the ability to play 3D games too

For my 73738, I always had firmware 12.02. I finally hooked up an ethernet cable to it just last night, not even trying to connect to any streaming service at all. I just turned it on now and see it is now at 12.04.

This is interesting.

Has anyone found any information on controlling these TVs via IP - such as with Control4/AMX/Crestron systems?

I'd like to use this in my Control4 system and I can write an IP driver but would need a protocol document.

I realize this is a long-shot but thought I'd ask if any of you have found such a protocol document, or had your Control4 dealer successfully integrate these with IP control.

Weird that some are being updated to 12.04 and others to 12.05. It would seem everyone would be updated to the latest, 12.05.

Maybe the 738's are 12.04 and the 838's are 12.05?
Especially since there are a number of differences between the two models.

my 65838, with full time internet connection, is 12.04. hmmmm....

Make sure HDMI CEC is turned off

Perhaps, but the MITS rep I talked to said they were sending me a s/w rev 12.05 for my 73738 (due to HDMI input problems). I'll verify this once it's received and installed.

It is, mine won't even let me turn it on. I checked pretty much every setting available trying to think of some weird one off setting that could be causing it.


Oh the plot thickens.... could you tell me what HDMI problems you were having and what rep you talked to? I would love to find out how to get the issue I am having resolved.

Is financing available when ordering online from pauls tv?

"full time internet connection, is 12.04."

I'm sorry but we've been through this before. Web based applications maybe updated via internet but unless MIT has changed something the core firmware is not.

My 65738 is 12.04 and has been since purchased.

Well, after reading all these posts, I decided to connect my TV to the internet. Checked my firmware before doing so and it was at 12.02. I connected it, checked some internet portion of the TV then turned it off. Came back from work next day and turned on the TV and voila, it was now at 12.04. So I'm guessing MIT did change something since it did update the firmware by itself without me having to press a button.

My HDMI input problem was stated earlier...refer to posts #1393 and #1483. I think the guys name was Jake. The frustrating thing is that it seems whoever you talk to has an accent, and that coupled to a phone connection that never seems to be a good one, leaves you spending half the conversation in repeating everything that's said to be sure you have somewhat of an understanding of what is discussed. Say that again.....

I'm moving down to the 73

The set I have arrived looking like images were being projected on the inside of a barrel. All 4 sides bowed inward noticeably, the image seemed rotated clockwise a little and even the horizontal center line was not straight... it curved upward in the left quadrant of the screen.

I got a procedure from Mitsubishi to restore the geometry settings - did that last night and now the geometry is quite good. Something had caused the geometry settings to revert to their uncorrected state. The procedure takes maybe 20 seconds. But don't feel comfortable providing the information here. I would suggest calling Mitsubishi Tech Support and tell them you have large geometry errors and you'd like them to talk you through the procedure to re-load the geometry settings from "backup" (use those words) to see if that improves your geometry. This requires accessing the service menu then finding another menu where there are a number of backup and restore options.

After restoring the geometry settings from backup ("backup" is stored somewhere inside the TV, though this menu also allows storage of settings on USB memory devices... you don't need a USB memory device to restore the factory geometry settings) the geometry is pretty good. Errors are small enough to be perfectly satisfactory. It's still not perfect, but the residual issues are really small.

The whole procedure is done using buttons on the remote control - nothing else is needed.

You should display a program guide or something else that shows the geometry problems while you do the procedure... when you do it, the geometry changes immediately and what you have displayed should look much better.

Just for the record, my 73838 which came with 12.04 installed updated itself automatically to 12.05. Also, for the record, everything is in great shape after about ten weeks daily use. The occasional insect gets behind the screen, but after an hour or so either dies or escapes. I am changing from Time Warner Roadrunner to Fios next week and am curious to note the differences.

So what? Nobody ever said to turn Super White off... in fact, every thread that discusses PS3 settings says to turn SuperWhite ON for Blu-ray movies.


Either way, it's still wrong. You do NOT get "more colors" when you change from YCbCr to RGB. You get the same number of colors. The number of colors is determined by the number of bits in the data stream. Rounding errors mean only that the resulting color is slightly "off" from what it was in the previous color space. But there are never "more colors". There are 219 gray/color steps in 16-235 when YCbCr is converted to RGB. You are just "speculating" about what "might" happen... which is not the point of AV SCIENCE forums. There are people here who KNOW what happens and nobody is served by speculation or guesses about what happens.


You do not understand the difference between whiter than white and contrast settings. Most modern digital displays never clip white no matter where you set the contrast control. So the ONLY consideration for where to set the Contrast control is getting it somewhere near that 35 fL level for comfortable viewing and increasing it for daylight/daytime viewing (along with Backlight if there is one). If a modern digital display does clip white, it ALWAYS clips white and it doesn't matter where the Contrast control is set. All contrast does is set how bright 100% white is (in most modern digital displays). The THX Optimizer and DVE information are not right for modern digital displays... and that is a fact.


You're "pretty sure" is also WRONG. Dead wrong. And you need to GET OFF OF IT. Nobody's eyes are different unless they are color blind or have macular degeneration or cataracts or some other issue that makes the eyes "not nominally normal". You are dealing with COLOR SCIENCE and it is VERY well-understood with decades and decades of research and study by SCIENTISTS. There is no guessing nor reliance on statements like "everybody's eyes are different". Which is frankly... an ignorant statement. As are all the statements about "shutter speed" as relates to eyes. In fact they are so wrong that it is difficult to even be nice about any of it. It sounds like the ravings of someone who went through the lame public education system (that has dominated over the last 2 or 3 decades) where nobody is ever wrong about anything. Just dream stuff up and you pass... no matter what. The world, and science especially, doesn't work like that.

Again... this is an AV SCIENCE forum and everything about color and visual perception is well documented. I worked on imaging systems for Eastman Kodak Company for 34 years in technical and engineering positions (and engineering college before that). I'm not interested in dreaming up cockamamie ideas about how color and vision works - nor in letting them perpetuate. I don't mean to be mean about this - but, really, you don't know what you are talking about.

One thing is CERTAIN... any person with nominally normal vision can be TAUGHT how to be a more perceptive viewer, but few of them can learn it on their own. When you run thousands and thousands of people through tests to determine how many shades of gray and how many shades of red, green, and blue they can detect, you get an accurate picture of human perception whether you like it or not. The truth of the matter is... yes, there is some variability in perception, but the variability is on the range of 195-205 visible steps and NO MORE THAN THAT. And often, those on the 195 end of the spectrum can be taught to see 200 steps.

There is a reason digital consumer video is an 8-bit system... that's because 7-bits is not good enough and 9-bits is more than necessary. And consumer products always want to skate by on the very LEAST capability necessary because more capability means higher cost. That doesn't mean 8-bits is the BEST system... it means 8-bits is the LEAST that can be used to make good images - but everything has to be done right and that's rarely the case. 12-bits would be better, and we'll probably get there some day. But it will be better not because we need more bits to make the best images human vision can see, it will be better because it will be far more difficult to make mistakes that become visible in the final product. The 8-bit system leaves no room for mistakes -- 12 bits means you have to be pretty bad at what you are doing to make mistakes that are visible in the final product.

You cannot rely on video displays to represent more than about 128 steps with reasonable accuracy. The have internal processing that emphasizes transitions from 1 level to the next making "stripes" visible when they are not REALLY visible with accurate (non-consumer) video displays or in specialized printed documents/targets. You are basing your "observations" on all sorts of inappropriate assumptions which is ANTI-scientific.

I know nobody says that, I was simply responding to you saying there was no limited mode for YCbCr, when Superwhite Off is pretty much a limited mode


Once again you misunderstood me. I know you don't get more colors in the conversion. I was simply talking about the color spaces themselves. 0-255 provides over 6 million more colors than 16-235. (assuming anything outside 16-235 is clipped, as the ps3 does) The fact is, with more colors available to convert to, the result will be more accurate to the original YCbCr image. As I've said before, any conversion to RGB, whether it's Limited or Full, will result in a less accurate image, but Full will be closer to the YCbCr source. That's all.


Not true, my LCD uses the contrast control as a "White Levels" control, if the contrast is set low enough, white isn't clipped. If it's set high enough white is clipped. Brightness shifts the entire range from black to white left or right (and if brightness it too low, black gets clipped as well) and contrast determines the range from black to white. If you increase contrast, that range increases. If it increases too high, white will clip. This should be the way any set with digital processing works. The DVE disc I used was the Blu-ray HD basics, which focuses on HD digital displays, and the THX optimizer I used was on a Blu-ray disc as well. I thought calibration was about getting the maximum potential out of your TV, meaning the darkest blacks you can get without clipping, the brightest whites you can get without clipping, and the most accurate color. Doing that has NEVER strained my eyes.


Then how do you explain the fact that I can easily see more than 220 levels? For example. I might have a set with 220 levels, and then another at twice the luminosity, and another, and another, and another going brighter and brighter. I would easily be able to see all the shades in all of these sets, all at the same time. That proves that I can see more than 220 levels. Yes, maybe within a small range of brightness we might only be able to see 200 levels, but like I said above, if you're getting the maximum potential out of your set, you'll easily see more.

Menu 2457 then press 0. Scroll down to restore geometry settings and press enter. You are done.

Is the hdmi and geometry issues related to the 73" models

Well my 65738 is now at 12.05 this evening. Now the quest begins for what was actually updated or fixed.

"Scroll down to restore geometry settings and press enter."

The tech who replaced my light engine, going strong by the way, said MIT responded to tech advice to store the settings in two different places so after work is done it is easier and less time consuming to restore these TV's.

So how's your picture now?

Did the tech give you any sense of overall reliability of the optical block?

Happy your set is good now.

taichi4

Just curious, may I ask why you are moving down to the 73" from the 82"?

That Guy was me

I also sent the conf paper and the invoice. I was tempted to send the packing list as well but decided otherwise. lol

Quick question for all.....
Do we need to buy the Mitsubishi 3DA-1 for each device
IE..3D Bluray player, DTV , Playstion? I havent tried this yet but i was wondering if i could connect the 3DA-1 to my Onkyo HT-RC160 HDMI output then to the TV? Or must the reciever by 3d compatible

Thanks

I picked up the Samsung BD-C6800 and it worked fine. Oh wait, your asking if it works through the AVR, sorry.. I ran mines directly to the 3dA-1 adapter and striaght to the TV. Ran optical audio cable from the player to my AVR
Worked perfectly in that manner.

I'm nowhere near any of their locations. I'm in Georgia. That's why I was asking.

I've been searching for a tv for a while now and I've gone through 3 of them, an LED and two plasma's and the last plasma I would have kept if the video game usage(95%) wasn't so high but ultimately it was a chore to keep up with the IR and when I started playing Demon's Souls well that was the final nail.

I'm taking a closer look at DLP's and LCD's now, I've all but ruled out plasma's for now. Anyways, for a tv that will be used 95% of the time for gaming, would a DLP be better than an LCD?

Do DLP's have input lag? (#ms?)
Do they support 3D gaming w/ the adapter? (360/ps3)
How does the 3D compare with LCD 3D?
How does the overall PQ compare to an LCD?
Also can I run video off a flash drive?

Specifically I'm looking at the 60738. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

tai...

Thanks for asking. Picture is great. I test it periodically and no problems. Tech did not say one way or the other about longevity, repairs for my model. Did say for the 83 inch ones he has replaced a couple of light engines already but not for the "smaller" units. He speculated it is something MIT did to pump up the picture for the 83 inchers and pushing the light engines so marginal ones fail.

He also said that the color wheels on these new models should last longer as they are air bearings, better designs, the previous ones.

He grumbled about the way the guts are assembled, disassembled and reassembled. Apparenty previous models were more modular and things like the lamp ballast were easier to service.

Even with my 65738 being more "difficult" it only took him a second. I mean it was like what are you complaining about? Takes me longer to swap video cards on my computer than he needed to swap the light engine.

Okay, my problem still persists... Occassionally, the HDMI signal craps out to the point where it also locks up my reciever and ps3. To the point where the ps3 needs to be unplugged to restart. (Holding the on button to force a sutdown doesn't even work). My reciever (an onkyo) actually half turns off. I dont' know any other way of describing it.

So turnign the tv off and on does not fix it. Unplugging it and plugging it back in does. So does holding the on button for ten seconds (on the unit, not the remote). So does pressing menu 123 on the remote. But the fix only works for about a day, and the problem happens.

Mits said the new 12.05 software is designed to fix the HDMI problem I described. It is weird, normally, companies doen't even want to talk to you unless you have the latest updates. Mits tries everything else first, trying to avoid the update. I dont' get it.

Anyway, they are sending me the update via e-mail! I was surprised. They asked if I had a thumb drive, I said I did, and they said they'd e-mail it to me, and all I'd have to do was copy it to a thumb drive. Interesting.

I'll give it a try and see what happens.