Just to check, my Panny 800u doesn't suffer from these "floating black" issues,right?

The floating blacks issue is on the 2010 models.

Yes it might, you should hurry up and take it back.

I have a 58pz700u. I assume mine should be oK. I never heard of anything like this anyhow, and haven't noticed for myself. But then again, folks on here are always complaining about seeing purple snakes and crap like that that I never see either. Maybe it's better that way.

It's only a 2010 issue. The 2009 and 2008 models are not affected. Whomever said they are, is wrong. You may be confusing it with the Rising Blacks issue which is on the 2009 models, and is on the 2010 models to some extent.



If a TV has the issue, you'd definitely notice it. I once saw the floating blacks on a G25 at Fry's and there's no way you'd miss it if you saw it. However i have never seen it on my 2009 G10 or 2007 PZ700U, or on any of my friends' 2008 models. It was new for 2010.

I was giving a silly answer to a silly post.

It is not an issue for those who can't see it. Those of us who can see it, have a hard time understanding how one could NOT see it, since it's such a dramatic jump in levels. But some people think McDonald's non-food is tasty, too, and they munch happily on budget meat, which sounds to me like a win-win. I just can't swallow it, myself.

So, if you have a 2008/2009, you aren't seeing it because it isn't there. If you have or are thinking of buying a 2010 and don't want to take the chance of being able to see something that totally bums you out, go find an older model, like the 2009 G's or V's.

Best,

_Mike

...Your...2010 isn't affected?

42800U just over 2 years old should be over 4,000 hours now. Generally, this TV is on about 7 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week. The rest of the time we are gone or asleep.

I have been watching this whole discussion of both rising blacks and floating blacks for about three months now, as well as the details from CNET.

For the most part the TV is close enough to perfect out of the box. The only adjustments over time have been with either picture or brightness control. picture control is a little different than contrast control, but for this discussion we will consider them the same.

With zero hours and new, the TV seemed a dash dull, so within the first few days I went with +2 on picture control and that made it perfect.

Around 400 hours I noticed it was too bright (broken-in good now), and changing picture control to just +1 factory original setting made it perfect again.

Around 1,000 hours or so I felt it was getting too bright again so went back to factory setting for picture control +0. I can easily see the different of just 1 click on any of the controls, be it picture brightness color or tint and of course color management (on/off). If there was such a thing, I would be able to see half clicks as well. However the +0 setting of picture control just did not have the zing or pop I was looking for, so I went back to +1 for picture control. It has stayed that way (+1 on picture) until the last couple of months and I have been watching it like a hawk for all these floating and/or rising black issues.

So during the last couple of months I have tried all sorts of adjustments. For picture +0 +1 +2 +3; for brightness +0 +1 +2. Played with color and tint but within a couple of hours and test always came back to factory settings.

Today the settings are: Factory Out of the Box with only +1 for picture with 4,000 plus hours.

And for my 800U the verdict is:

Floating Blacks None, zero, nada, zilch, not even close. No reason to discuss it is just not there.

Rising Blacks Perhaps, maybe, ultra super minor, if it is there and I think it is - it would be worth about ¼ to ½ a click worth of the darkest black. Keep in mind the 800U while very black is not the blackest TV in the world. So over time from zero hours to over 4,000 hours, the blacks started at one level out of the box, may have risen to ¼ to as much as ½ click around the 1,500 to 2.500 hour mark; but for sure at the 4,000 plus hour mark it is almost, within a ¼ click or less to where it was out of the box. At 4,000 plus hours that certainly works for me.

Side note on blacks: There are so many sources of blacks and all with different levels of quality a lot of people cannot tell where the black is or is not coming from (the TV or the source).

Just one tiny example:

BD version; Lost Season 1 (all 7 the disc, but easiest to find bad blacks on disc 2); has tremendously crushed blacks, and the blackest total dark scenes will appear gray. Many sections of BD conversions are so bad that custom in lieu of THX must be used in a feeble attempt to lift the blacks out - but it really cannot be done because the ultra black detail is not there. You will not notice that in the daylight scenes. Of course a super high quality BD like The Dark Knight does not have that problem. BD qualities are at the opposite ends of the spectrum; in this case black levels.

In comparison the standard DVD version of Taking Chance produces exceptionally deep rich blacks, it actually appears to the near real traditional BD quality. Of course in order to render that much detail the player must be able to up convert in fine fashion.

So on a scale of 0 to 100 for those three sources for the richest and deepest blacks:

BD The Dark Knight - 100

DVD Taking Chance - 88

BD Lost Season 1 - 20 Yes it is that bad, and many will think their TV has a serious rising black issue when it does not. Real Deep Black is not on the BD version of Lost Season 1 - you only get gray, where the black should be. Super crushed from the bottom up. The only way to make this a non-issue for Lost Season 1 is to place the BD on a LCD set, on Super Ultra Vivid mode, in direct sunlight.

Perhaps you're not drinking the same stuff they are.

slight modification.

Because it a design feature used to maintain the best possible picture over the longest period of time and the handful of hysterics (most of whom do not own the brand) do not seem to be able to influence Panasonic's reasons for the feature.

Worry about it if and/or when you have the "problem" and if you're not one of the handful with a visible issue stop the endless chest clutching angst and watch tv.

I wouldn't worry, you're not even close.

1. Yep that is what I am sort of saying; plus as the set gets even older above 3000 hours it is more or less self correcting. All TV's will change over time. IMHO the 800U is aging much better than "any" Sony Trinitron I ever had or "any" HD TV I have owned.

2. Well at least my 800U does not have floating blacks. I think reports that it may exist in 2010 may be well overstated. I would feel perfectly safe with the most current runs of G25 and VT25. I also feel safe that Panasonic will take care of any problem I have; just like they have in the past. They took back 3 plasmas and 4 BD players until I got one that worked to my satisfaction - of course these were defects out of the box - but again I was happy with the prompt response to take care of things.

3. See answer above. If I were to get a G25 or VT25, I could easily tell if it had floating blacks in less than 10 days - they would take it back and replace or give me a full refund. As far as rising blacks are concerned: Apparently it is equal to and/or is now better controlled than the 800U (which for me is not a problem). No one knows the answer until you get several thousand hours on it. Keep in mind the G25 and VT25 start out A Lot Blacker than the 800U ever was; that is noticeable by I think almost everyone? So any changes in black level on a G25 or VT25 would be much more noticeable over time than an 800U.


If I were buying today I would be getting a G25 - current production. If it did not work for me in the first 10 days I would send it back - after that I would keep it (unless it blew up or something). Otherwise, I would think it would be comparable to the 800U regarding long term picture quality. The only reason I am not getting one today is because of the economy. But I like many others no longer have the sources of income I did just 2 years ago.

I will try to explain again - also you may want to read my two posts again.

>>>1. Self correcting? What do you mean?

All TV's change over time. IMO Panasonic has done a good job concerning these issues for 2008 and current run 2010 models. AFAIK the problems remain for many 2009 models, according to others.

>>>>Is there some kind of thing about the newer produced G25's that means they're fixed (as some have said the V's don't even have floating blacks from the get go, which is interesting)? Did someone figure that out already?

Others that claim to know the facts have indicated the latest G25's and VT25's do not have the problems. I do not know for sure because I do not have one in my house and have not used it either. That is why I have qualified it by saying if it did not work for me I would send it back - therefore it is not an issue for me.

IMO, when a set is in your house you should be able to identify if a set has floating blacks within 10 days max - perhaps just a day or two. Rising Blacks will take a few thousand hours and if history is any indicator the 1,000 hour mark to 1,500 hours appears to be the most noticeable. AFAIK there are very few (if any) looking for this at 4,000 hours and above like I am. There simply has not been enough time for this to be tested on 2010 models just yet.

If the economy was not so bad I would already have a 54G25 in my house and if it passed the 10 day test it would still be here. I know up front the blacks are blacker than the 800U (which is very good) and the black detail is better too. Overall, I would expect the same type of long term performance I have gotten from my 800U.

Only in a forum would you have someone worrying if a new set is better than his (multiple posts TOO!)

WHEN

ANY of them have better black levels, double the brightness and half the power consumption.