Originally Posted by FOH
Well, either the magnetic interaction has the capability of being destructive, or it has no effect. One of us is correct.
68 posts and we finally have a point by point discussion. Let's keep this above board and peel these layers back. I'm sure I'll learn something.
I'm not arguing the audibility, that argument I can not prove.
You could, if you were so inclined, to conduct your own personal investigations but from a practical sense pick one or the other and move on to more fruitful endeavors!
1.) 20-20K is hardly wide bandwidth
I understand. In audio, 3 orders of magnitude is a wide range of signals.Sure because it's relative to our own rather limited bandwidth.
2.) according to Kirchoff, this current is exactly equal to the other but the direction is opposite. So, you've got two fields that are equal but have opposite signs resulting in them effectively cancelling out.
The fields do not entirely cancel out. Spaced pair. This is very easy to measure.So measure or calculate it using worse case scenarios then. For reference, the earth's magnetic field, which varies, is on the order of 1/3 or so gauss and the magnetic field in something like a woofer is on the order of 10,000 gauss or so. Since you're making the claim that it's detrimental, how's about you putting some perspective on this?
3.) Try coiling some wire around one of the speaker wires. with two bare ends. Attach one to a 9V battery and while playing a steady tone through the speakers, complete the connection to the battery's other terminal. Any difference in sound?
As you know, in DC one doesn't have the constant interaction of lines of flux. Nothing about what we are discussing is DC. I don't understand, and if you could explain I would appreciate it. I'm sure you are hitting on something here, but please elaborate.I'm creating a magnetic field that's fairly powerful. It'll affect a compass' orientation and even pick something up. Listen to the tone(s) and see if you can audibly modulate them by making/breaking the magnetic field.
4.) As far as IMD entering, that's a guess in an attempt to explain one potential aspect. My understanding is IMD is most noticeable when one of the frequencies is much lower than the other, and the high frequency signal is modulated by the low frequency. Different from the signals adding as they are supposed to.So it's a guess. When you can either measure it or calculate it and then compare it to the inherent distortion products in things like all the components of your system including the speaker, then maybe we'll have something to talk about.
5.) And they're all cancelling. You're worrying or obsessing about the most trivial of magnetic fields. Where did you read this stuff?
Once again, they do not cancel entirely, and they are no more trivial than those very small HF signals that we covet as extension. Where I've read this? Like most of us here, I read everything credible that I can get my hands on, but this is rooted in textbook stuff, physics of electricity. This is recollection on my behalf, so correct me on specific areas, I'll learn something.It's time to start putting numbers on things and those fields cancel pretty darned well. Zero, no. But let's not elevate trivialities to mountains.
6.) Tell me you're not reading Audioquest or Cardas mumbo jumbo white papers?
What Bill Low and George Cardas tout is surely out there in the fringe, and I'm being kind. They are in business to convince individuals to buy cable, and they do well at it. Me, I've got a mixture really, a lot of Monoprice. Matter of fact, just received some new cabling a few days ago.
Also, to prevent magnetic interaction between two fields, physical space would certainly help.Calculate the field strength using worse case scenarios.
To answer your question, yes, I've been around studios, recording, live audio, etc., for over 30 years. I have made my own purist recordings since I was in my teens. Mic, mic pre, direct to tape. Does this mean anything in this discussion? No, but I've been around.It's relevant in the sense that the trivial things you're worried about are ignored all through the signal chain in recording studios. What's one more? Worry about something really important like why Jen Aniston can't find true love and whether Cher's wax figure looks more like Cher than she does.
It's cheap. Agreed
It gives even the crappiest speaker a loftier pedigree. Agreed
It lets you play with biwiring or biamping or bi-whatever. Agreed
The longer you keep the speakers while playing around, the more likely you are to keep them and go past the period when you can return them. That's good for the store. That's good for the manufacturer who doesn't have to hear from the store that people are returning speakers and what are they going to do about it. I'll take your word for that.
If you biamp them, since the crossover point typically occurs in the most sensitive range of human hearing, 1-4 kHz, you can almost guarantee you'll manage to screw that area up with audible consequences and then call it a success. Agreed, I've detailed the caveats of bi-amping
Just 'cause there's another hole to stick something in, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. Is this hole theory? ...Dirac would be proud.
I don't remember how, but I ran into bi-wiring maybe 15 years before I ever heard or read anyone refute the possibilities. With my skill set and knowlege base, it easily stood up to my BS meter. Made theoretical sense. Subtle, yes. Hell,... most cases I'm not even sure if it's audible.
However, since I feel strongly that detrimental magnetic interaction can occur, bi-wiring using well made, yet inexpensive cables, in my opinion makes perfect sense.
Throughout this thread I've attempted to make clear I'm anything but a strong proponent.