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Official Sony XBR HX909 owners' thread (52HX909, 46HX909, HX9, HX900) - Page 2

post #31 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

LCD's struggle with 3D and it will take a year or two to iron out the wrinkles. When choosing a 3DTV you really need to weigh the pros and cons of each display tech, room, and lighting. You're not going to find a perfect 3DTV this year*, but the HX909 appears to be the most balanced of all the 3D LCD panels at this time.

*If you're not interested in 3D at all, a 2010 model may not even be the best choice.


True, but as most of the 2009's are gone, no...
I mean you can't just go out and pick up that B/L LD Sammy, can you?
post #32 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromothra View Post

True, but a most of the 2009's are gone, no...
I mean you can't just go out and pick up that B/L LD Sammy, can you?

A time machine seems plausible, perhaps? Though, you'd be travelin' forward, not backwards.
post #33 of 2895
I stand corrected. You can get the sammy, but jeez, you could get the 909 cheaper...
And after seeing the 909 reflection treatment, that sammy screen is looking awfully shiny.

Here's hoping this review gets passed the awful first (in-store) experience I had with this set, which I've gotta hope/believe was content/settings based and not the set itself.

Question: Why, on the CNET video is there so much flicker on about 50% of the screen closeups of the 909 (2:58 in and 2:40 in)?
You could chaulk it up to the video process they use, but I saw NONE on the sammy video using (assumption here) the same technique and equipment.
post #34 of 2895
I just got this Sony 3D last night....anyone knows any good tip ? I really want to calibrate my tv and the only place who can do that is best buy...but the cost is $299.00...and i dont know if is worth it or not... anyone knows?
post #35 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromothra View Post

I stand corrected. You can get the sammy, but jeez, you could get the 909 cheaper...
And after seeing the 909 reflection treatment, that sammy screen is looking awfully shiny.

Here's hoping this review gets passed the awful first (in-store) experience I had with this set, which I've gotta hope/believe was content/settings based and not the set itself.

Question: Why, on the CNET video is there so much flicker on about 50% of the screen closeups of the 909 (2:58 in and 2:40 in)?
You could chaulk it up to the video process they use, but I saw NONE on the sammy video using (assumption here) the same technique and equipment.

Zeromothra: Please explain. You said you saw the TV at the store and then you are concerned by the flickering you noticed on the Cnet video.
Well, did you see the flickering at the store?
I saw the TV in person in the Sony store and to my eyes this thing was a sheer beauty.

Please elaborate
post #36 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

LCD's struggle with 3D and it will take a year or two to iron out the wrinkles. When choosing a 3DTV you really need to weigh the pros and cons of each display tech, room, and lighting. You're not going to find a perfect 3DTV this year*, but the HX909 appears to be the most balanced of all the 3D LCD panels at this time.

*If you're not interested in 3D at all, a 2010 model may not even be the best choice.

See I really personally feel like the whole 3D with glasses thing is a silly gimmick that's going to pass by fairly quickly. I mean does anyone really see the feasibility in wearing 3D glasses when watching tv? I have a feeling people will use it for the first couple of months (at most) and then those glasses will end up wedged under the couch or in a drawer somewhere never to be used. From what I'm gathering from reviews of the VT25 is its got an amazing 2D picture so I wouldn't mind getting that tv as it seems to have the best 2D and 3D picture available today aside from maybe a Kuro.
post #37 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

See I really personally feel like the whole 3D with glasses thing is a silly gimmick that's going to pass by fairly quickly. I mean does anyone really see the feasibility in wearing 3D glasses when watching tv? I have a feeling people will use it for the first couple of months (at most) and then those glasses will end up wedged under the couch or in a drawer somewhere never to be used. From what I'm gathering from reviews of the VT25 is its got an amazing 2D picture so I wouldn't mind getting that tv as it seems to have the best 2D and 3D picture available today aside from maybe a Kuro.

The only reason I'm staying away from the Panny VT25 is because I read that on the last year models the TV turned grey after a rather short period of time.
Are you aware of that flaw?
post #38 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samckaz View Post

Also remember this is a " Backlit unit as opposed to a "Edgelit unit- backlit units dont suffer from Flashlight defects.

Yes I know, but I recall reading in the XBR8 owner's thread that some members had minor flashlighting in some of their sets even though the XBR8 is a backlit led unit.
post #39 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

See I really personally feel like the whole 3D with glasses thing is a silly gimmick that's going to pass by fairly quickly.

You really need to study history of AV as it will prove you 100% wrong. People will put on glasses for major sporting events, movies and video gaming and there will be a future without glasses at some point as 3D evolves. Born in 1950 I've been around through TV's entire evolution and it's far more exciting now than ever and yet each year we place the bar higher. I remember when CRT tubes were the only thing and for a couple of decades the largest TV was 27" and now we have HT's better than the Movie House - they pooh pooh HD as a gimmick also and guess what? We're in the infancy as Ultra HD will blow away what we view today. Ultra HD broadcast have been tested successfully in Japan for 3 years and they are working on a version for the 2012 Summer Olympics in England the hold back was broadband pipe and speed and that has now been resolved with new technology Cisco has developed that can handle it easily in the future.

Damn have you even seen Video Gaming with the glasses - done right it's amazing and virtually all sporting events will migrate to 3D starting this fall - Sony does most of the camera work and it shall grow far beyond a gimmick because those in control of the source content will make it so. There's money to be made and it is the evolution of the media.

I believe I recall the same thing said about X360, PS3, BD Players et al and they have evolved despite the doubting Thomases. I'd bet within 5 years Ultra HD will be replacing Blu-Ray. Sony, Samsung, Sharp, Vizio et al, are committed to 3D via LCD.

"3D models to account for over 86% of total PDP (Plasma) TV shipments in 2013, says Displaybank"

BTW I carefully viewed the HX909 two days ago at our Sonystyle for about 40 minutes and while the focus was 3D - there were about 20 varieties of content and I found most of it to be excellent, especially video gaming is taken to a new level not experienced before in 2D. While it was not perfect throughout I found it quite excellent and the blacks were great, football has great potential with 3D from viewing the USC/Buckeye ESPN 3D Game. I wrote a lengthy review in the 2010 thread. I'd rather trust the actual owners experinces in the weeks ahead. If what your viewing makes you involuntarily verbalize WoW! --- then it works in my book and 3D will only get better. Firmware and wireless makes these panels upgradable and 3D enhancement during ownership we didn't have the ability a few years ago.
post #40 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samckaz View Post

Zeromothra: Please explain. You said you saw the TV at the store and then you are concerned by the flickering you noticed on the Cnet video.
Well, did you see the flickering at the store?
I saw the TV in person in the Sony store and to my eyes this thing was a sheer beauty.

Please elaborate

Nope, no flickering noticed at the store. But it is there in the video and not there in the Sammy video, so I thought it odd and hoped to get some input from someone out there.

My experience in the store was posted in the BRAVIA 2010 Line Up thread page 71.
post #41 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

You really need to study history of AV as it will prove you 100% wrong

It's not like 3D with glasses has ever failed before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

"3D models to account for over 86% of total PDP (Plasma) TV shipments in 2013, says Displaybank"

So 86% of the plasmas to be sold will include 3D. How many of them will actually be used for 3D? Misleading statistic. I wonder how many HD-DVD players Toshiba projected to sell? And what were the projections on Sony's minidisc?
post #42 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

You really need to study history of AV as it will prove you 100% wrong. People will put on glasses for major sporting events, movies and video gaming and there will be a future without glasses at some point as 3D evolves. Born in 1950 I've been around through TV's entire evolution and it's far more exciting now than ever and yet each year we place the bar higher. I remember when CRT tubes were the only thing and for a couple of decades the largest TV was 27" and now we have HT's better than the Movie House - they pooh pooh HD as a gimmick also and guess what? We're in the infancy as Ultra HD will blow away what we view today. Ultra HD broadcast have been tested successfully in Japan for 3 years and they are working on a version for the 2012 Summer Olympics in England the hold back was broadband pipe and speed and that has now been resolved with new technology Cisco has developed that can handle it easily in the future.

Damn have you even seen Video Gaming with the glasses - done right it's amazing and virtually all sporting events will migrate to 3D starting this fall - Sony does most of the camera work and it shall grow far beyond a gimmick because those in control of the source content will make it so. There's money to be made and it is the evolution of the media.

I believe I recall the same thing said about X360, PS3, BD Players et al and they have evolved despite the doubting Thomases. I'd bet within 5 years Ultra HD will be replacing Blu-Ray. Sony, Samsung, Sharp, Vizio et al, are committed to 3D via LCD.

"3D models to account for over 86% of total PDP (Plasma) TV shipments in 2013, says Displaybank"

BTW I carefully viewed the HX909 two days ago at our Sonystyle for about 40 minutes and while the focus was 3D - there were about 20 varieties of content and I found most of it to be excellent, especially video gaming is taken to a new level not experienced before in 2D. While it was not perfect throughout I found it quite excellent and the blacks were great, football has great potential with 3D from viewing the USC/Buckeye ESPN 3D Game. I wrote a lengthy review in the 2010 thread. I'd rather trust the actual owners experinces in the weeks ahead. If what your viewing makes you involuntarily verbalize WoW! --- then it works in my book and 3D will only get better. Firmware and wireless makes these panels upgradable and 3D enhancement during ownership we didn't have the ability a few years ago.

Well the reason why I say it's gimmicky is because of the 3D glasses I too believe that 3D is feasible but ONLY when it doesn't require the use of glasses. I'm not a kid myself and remember the 3D phases in the 80s in the movie theaters etc.. and while I know todays tech is more advanced than that it STILL requires glasses which is the problem. But from a PQ standpoint the Panasonic apparently blows the doors off of the Sony for both 2D and 3D. The only thing I'm concerned with though is that I do a lot of gaming on a tv so I'm concerned about burn in with a plasma.
post #43 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

Panasonic apparently blows the doors off of the Sony for both 2D and 3D.

Those are strong words.....
But as far as I recall - even CNET admitted in their review that Sony HX909 had better blacks than Panny's plasma - can't remember which model though.
post #44 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladi123456 View Post

Those are strong words.....
But as far as I recall - even CNET admitted in their review that Sony HX909 had better blacks than Panny's plasma - can't remember which model though.

Well yah, but the review of the Sony on Cnet isn't very positive really. Cnet says about the Panasonic "3D picture quality aside, the Panasonic VT20/25 is among the best-performing televisions we've tested yet. It offers the standard uniformity advantages over LCD--excellent off-angle fidelity, uniform brightness and color across the screen--along with the best black level performance of any non-Kuro plasma we've ever tested, and highly accurate color overall".

They said the black levels on the Sony were good but tinged blue but obviously they are nowhere near as black as the VT25.
post #45 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

Well yah, but the review of the Sony on Cnet isn't very positive really. Cnet says about the Panasonic "3D picture quality aside, the Panasonic VT20/25 is among the best-performing televisions we've tested yet. It offers the standard uniformity advantages over LCD--excellent off-angle fidelity, uniform brightness and color across the screen--along with the best black level performance of any non-Kuro plasma we've ever tested, and highly accurate color overall".

They said the black levels on the Sony were good but tinged blue but obviously they are nowhere near as black as the VT25.

I'll give you that, it's better then any LCD TV on the market
But are you aware that these Plasmas burn out their black level after a short period of time, (even Katzmeier mentions it in his review) the blacks turn into grey and Panasonic is not responding to all the customers complaints
So what good is it
post #46 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

They said the black levels on the Sony were good but tinged blue but obviously they are nowhere near as black as the VT25.

No actual owners have reported that blue thing yet - as far as I know. Maybe it was just that one set.
As far as black level - according to Cnet - it's the other way around - VT25 is worse than HX909:

"the Sony XBR-52HX909 delivered a deeper shade of black than any of the other sets in our lineup aside from the Pioneer. Black areas like the letterbox bars above and below the image, or the silhouettes fighting under the archway (at the 15:16 mark) were often indistinguishable from those on the Pioneer and darker than the rest, including the other local dimming LCDs; although in very dark scenes the Panasonic VT25 also came very close to the HX909"

Also, as far as crosstalk - they said sometimes Sony was better than Panasonic, and sometimes Panasonic was better than Sony - which didn't sound to me like Panasonic blew the doors off of Sony.
post #47 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

You really need to study history of AV as it will prove you 100% wrong. People will put on glasses for major sporting events, movies and video gaming and there will be a future without glasses at some point as 3D evolves. Born in 1950 I've been around through TV's entire evolution and it's far more exciting now than ever and yet each year we place the bar higher. I remember when CRT tubes were the only thing and for a couple of decades the largest TV was 27" and now we have HT's better than the Movie House - they pooh pooh HD as a gimmick also and guess what? We're in the infancy as Ultra HD will blow away what we view today. Ultra HD broadcast have been tested successfully in Japan for 3 years and they are working on a version for the 2012 Summer Olympics in England the hold back was broadband pipe and speed and that has now been resolved with new technology Cisco has developed that can handle it easily in the future.

Damn have you even seen Video Gaming with the glasses - done right it's amazing and virtually all sporting events will migrate to 3D starting this fall - Sony does most of the camera work and it shall grow far beyond a gimmick because those in control of the source content will make it so. There's money to be made and it is the evolution of the media.

I believe I recall the same thing said about X360, PS3, BD Players et al and they have evolved despite the doubting Thomases. I'd bet within 5 years Ultra HD will be replacing Blu-Ray. Sony, Samsung, Sharp, Vizio et al, are committed to 3D via LCD.

"3D models to account for over 86% of total PDP (Plasma) TV shipments in 2013, says Displaybank"

1. Increasing resolution is not a gimmick, wearing glasses to watch TV is. I don't know of many more hard core hockey and soccer fans than me, but even if they paid me to watch it in 3D with glasses, I'd switch back to 2D. True fans don't care about how it looks, they care about the sport. Plus, what do you do if you already wear glasses? Use both? How do you host a Superbowl party, buy 10 pairs of $200 glasses or ask everyone to bring their own? It's a gimmick until they come out with 3D TVs without glasses.

2. I don't recall anybody saying X360 and PS3 are gimmicks, they are high definition consoles that replaced previous generation.

3. Just because almost every single computer today ships with dual or quad-core CPU, doesn't mean it's needed for checking your email and posting to Facebook, which is the only thing more than 90% of the owners use it for. Out of 86% of TVs in 2013 having 3D, I'll be surprised if more than 5% will be watching it. 3D was brought out ahead of its time to revive saturated HDTV market, manufacturers pulled all the tricks they had and now they have nothing else but 3DTV.
post #48 of 2895
Sooo ... where's this 909 info???
post #49 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

It's not like 3D with glasses has ever failed before.



So 86% of the plasmas to be sold will include 3D. How many of them will actually be used for 3D? Misleading statistic. I wonder how many HD-DVD players Toshiba projected to sell? And what were the projections on Sony's minidisc?

2 points to add:

1. PDP is also a serious minority player in the market.

2. Just like 120hz processing or LEDs, in a short time a majority if TVs will have 3D built in since the tech will drop in price. This does not mean people want it per se. Some will use it, but most will not. The average person will buy a new set, but not a new BD player, glasses, etc.

I am not 100% counting 3D out, but until it can be done cheaply (using OTA or cable signals) and without glasses (like the Nintendo 3DS)m it's not truly the future.
post #50 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniyar79 View Post

1. Increasing resolution is not a gimmick, wearing glasses to watch TV is. I don't know of many more hard core hockey and soccer fans than me, but even if they paid me to watch it in 3D with glasses, I'd switch back to 2D. True fans don't care about how it looks, they care about the sport. Plus, what do you do if you already wear glasses? Use both? How do you host a Superbowl party, buy 10 pairs of $200 glasses or ask everyone to bring their own? It's a gimmick until they come out with 3D TVs without glasses..


Gaming with glasses isn't an issue IMO - we already wear headsets for voice, hold silly plastic guitars and steering wheels and goodness knows what other tat to enhance the experience. Glasses will fit right in. Frankly if you're a gamer and have seen the motorstorm demo in a Sony store you're probably already scratching around for pennies behind the sofa. I know I am.

Even with movies/sports you'll sometimes get a beer, make some popcorn, arrange the seating/lighting just so, take the phone off the hook. If its an 'event' viewing, whats a pair of glasses in the grand scheme of things? nothing.

I agree for general viewing or if you have a large group, it won't be practical. But for occasional big stuff it should be great.


As for the superbowl party argument, which always seems to come out - I wish people would use commonsense. Until 3D is more widespread and perhaps glasses free (or everyone has a pair) - just use 2D mode. The TV isn't forcing you to watch in 3D.
post #51 of 2895
I was at my local sony style store last sunday to check out the 52HX909. While trying to find the HX909 by reading the model numbers off the white tags by every tv, I was noticing and comparing all the tv's there. Some pretty decent, some just ok, some I would never buy but then i came across the NX800 and it looked really good, well, better than most tv's there but still not too impressed. Finally i came across the 52HX909 i've read so much or so little about (at the time no cnet review or barely any consumer reviews) and my eyes opened up so much it was like seeing a pair of double D's for the first time..lol..i was just amazed by everything this tv was showing me. First images were of a World Cup game which was already set up for 3D. Employee hands me 3D glasses..wow!!!..better than watching 3D at the movie theater. I asked him to swith it to 2D and by the press of a button i start seeing it in 2D. The PQ was awesome! Better than any tv in the store. I tried looking for blooming and crosstalk in 3D which was my main concern since its been rumored the tv shows some of both but i didn't see any blooming and the crosstalk not so much but if you really, really look for it you might see it. not a deal breaker though, absolutely not. You can't be too picky these days. The best full array LED tv i've ever seen! Now i gotta wait for the price to drop a bit!
post #52 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordiesep88 View Post

it was like seeing a pair of double D's for the first time..lol..

For me it was like seeing 2 pairs of double D's.
post #53 of 2895
Ok, so I had a panny s1, and I hated it. Since the pannys keep coming up on this thread I thought I would chime in. Granted, the s1 is not at the level of the vt, etc. I found the panny to be annoying to watch. I am anxiously waiting for the new 60" Sony to be released. If anyone is interested,I will post the details of what I didn't like about the panny later....I did post on the panny s1 thread and got slammed!
post #54 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordiesep88 View Post

Finally i came across the 52HX909 i've read so much or so little about (at the time no cnet review or barely any consumer reviews) and my eyes opened up so much it was like seeing a pair of double D's for the first time..lol..i was just amazed by everything this tv was showing me. First images were of a World Cup game which was already set up for 3D. Employee hands me 3D glasses..wow!!!..better than watching 3D at the movie theater. I asked him to swith it to 2D and by the press of a button i start seeing it in 2D. The PQ was awesome! Better than any tv in the store. I tried looking for blooming and crosstalk in 3D which was my main concern since its been rumored the tv shows some of both but i didn't see any blooming and the crosstalk not so much but if you really, really look for it you might see it. not a deal breaker though, absolutely not. You can't be too picky these days. The best full array LED tv i've ever seen!

It's picture quality is obviously good enough to make you register here to tell us all about it...
post #55 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackkeys View Post

For me it was like seeing 2 pairs of double D's.

In 3D?
post #56 of 2895
Sometimes when I visit Avsforum, I feel like I've landed in another dimension... where logic and common sense don't exist, but instead people are only driven and motivated by ego, pride and pipe-dreams.

I recall seeing people often refer to CNET when they gave the XBR8 a great review, but now the same website with the same staff has given the 909 a less-than-perfect review, so they are unreliable, biased and full of sh*t.

Yeah. OK.
post #57 of 2895
Hi Blankslate,

can you comment on any PIP function and how does it work.

thanks,
post #58 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordiesep88 View Post

You can't be too picky these days.

If you are going to pay $4,000 for a TV, I believe you should be very picky.

That said, I'm not trying to put down the 909 in any way. But the price is a bit steep considering it's appartently not the XBR8 killer that some claimed it was going to be. It's obviously a fine TV still, but that's a lot of money.
post #59 of 2895
I'm not familiar with the Sony LCDs. Does the HX909 have a video option for 1:1 pixel display? I'm not a fan of the overscan.

thx
post #60 of 2895
even my lowly Sony 40w4000 from a couple of years ago has 'full pixel' which is 1:1 over HDMI, so the HX909 is a cert
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