Samsung Auto Motion Plus not HD Compatible? - Page 2

Did a full test on my Samsung D6100 this morning. Transformers DSM Blu Ray - fine in all motion plus settings, no judder detected and I viewed all fast action / camera panning scenes. Xbox Netflix, occasional judder for about a minute and then fine (i put this down to buffering/streaming movies through my dodgy sky broadband). I also viewed both stored and live sky HD programmes like csi miami (anything with nice action/camera panning) and again went through all motion plus settings and could'nt get it to judder.

Have to say 'clear' or 'off' are the only mplus settings I can get on with anyway - the other settings give me a headache with all the soap opera wobbly wierdness!

So that's all I can give you folks. Either i'm just very lucky or i'm onto something. Until it's tried by somebody else with the same model i guess we'll never know. over'n'out...

Just to add my 2 cents to this discussion, my Samsung LN40D630 is brand new, purchased in February, and exhibits the same stuttering and frame skipping when using AMP in anything other than "Clear" or "Off" as everyone else here. I tried to do a firmware upgrade as suggested, but TV tells me that I already have the latest version, no upgrade available. I have observed that the stuttering only appears to happen when using HDMI sources, which in my setup are: HDMI 1 Samsung Cable Box and HDMI 2 Panasonic Blu Ray. OTA TV with a rabbit ear antenna exhibits no stutter, and cable direct from wall into the 75 ohm RF jack exhibits no stutter either. So the problem appears to be related to HDMI compatibility with AMP, but I am not savvy enough to determine why this is. And, sure, I know I can just leave AMP on "Clear" or "Off", but I am one of those nutty people who actually likes a little soap in my TV picture for some content. This was one of the main factors in my decision to purchase this particular TV. And, I have another 120 hz TV, a 42 inch LG LED, and the TruMotion frame interpolation on that TV works perfectly , even on the strongest setting, so I know that this is doable. Apparently, Samsung has not yet mastered this technology and worse, refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem or do anything about it.

I have the same problem with Samsung xxES6100.

I guess they still refuse to fix this problem; even in the latest generation of TVs

Saw the same stutter happen on the es8000 and Es7500 at fry's on anything but Clear or Off. Video was bluray through HDMI. Its almost as if the AMP processor couldn't process the info fast enough which caused the picture to lag behind the sound ever so slightly at which point it auto corrected by skipping a couple of frames forward. The best use of "Smooth Motion" tech I've see was on Sony TVs, in particular the hx820 and hx929. The tough thing is the picture looks a lot better on the Samsung IMO, so it's tough choice when picking a TV out, as both features are important.

Just to be clear, this problem does NOT happen on 24P material (higher-end bluray players, media players, and PC outputting at 24Hz). I watch 2D/3D bluray on my D8000 without a hitch with my favorite AMP setting: Custom: Anti-motion=10, Anti-judder=3. I also have realtime conversion of TV material to 24P on my PC. Unfortunately there are no consumer cableTV/satelite boxes with native 24P output.

The problem is introduced when using 60Hz sources AND AMP settings except for Clear.

The problem in Samsung xxES6100 is introduced when using 24p (23.976fps), HDMI sources AND AMP settings, except for Clear. With 24p (24fps) works well.

I have the Dune HD Max mediaplayer well configured, and it's works Ok with the same configuration in my old Samsung 40LEB651.
I think Auto Motion Plus have a bug.or is a ****. )

Hmm.. must be something new. My PC send 23.976Hz (or as close as I can get to it)/23.976fps with full any AMP option I want; and, not get stutter on my UN55D8000. The only reason I prefer a "perfect" 24.000hz/24.000fps speed and refresh rate is to restore original theater audio speed/pitch and original theater video speed/framerate.

I noticed though, regardless, the TV is extremely sensitive to timings that are even the slightest bit off... can introduce stutter with AMP on anything other than clear. So, when frame rate changes unexpected, there'll be jumpy stutter. I think Sony TVs are more tolerant to imperfect framerate timings; as well as Samsung AMP "Clear" setting.

"The problem" only exists when viewing material ORIGINALLY RECORDED ON FILM. We are viewing such material via video. There is a difference between film and video. What does that suggest?

I have a Samsung UN55D6000 LED that my father left me recently. It was bought in March of this year at BB. It's a second TV for my living room now. I have a Panasonic plasma for my main set in the family room. Before this set, all my experience with TV's has been CRT, RP-CRT, and Plasma. I've never seen anything like this on any of them. Over at my parent's house, my mother still has a Samsung LN52A750 LCD she bought 3 years ago and it doesn't have this problem.

I think this set has the stutter problem you're talking about. Tell me if I'm correct. Ever since I had originally set it up for my father, this TV "stutters" on HD/SD cable. It happens anywhere from now and then to every few seconds during a show or movie. I'll notice it whether on an HD channel or an SD channel, and whether I'm watching a movie or TV show. You'll be watching, and while the color and clarity are great, sometimes the picture will stutter, for lack of a better term. It could be when someone moves their head or walks across a room. For example, the other night I had on a Frasier rerun on an SD channel, and Niles was walking across a small cabin they were ice fishing in. When he walked his body would stutter. Very disturbing and odd to look at. Tonight, I had "I, Robot" on FX HD. In one scene with Bruce Greenwood, all he did was turn his head and look away and then look back. You should have seen it. His head stuttered through the whole sequence instead of flowing smoothly. I even noticed it badly when Wil Smith shakes the robot's hand at the end, among other scenes.

Is this the stutter problem? This problem has made me want to just ignore the TV and leave it alone. I haven't got it hooked to the internet yet so it's never had a firmware update. I'm in the process of choosing a BD player for it. The cable is hooked up through the HDMI/DVI 1 input. I have a DVD player hooked up through the component input and it doesn't have the stutter issue. Only the cable through HDMI. I too have the AMP set to standard.

Do I have the issue too? Here I've been thinking about calling for service or just giving it to my sister, but it sounds like I've just got the stutter.

Yeah, that's Samsung's trademark AMP stutter. Oddly, to this day Samsung refuses to accept this issue. Believe me, there are dozens of reports on their offical support website. If you do a live chat with a support person, they wont have a clue what you're talking about, like they have never heard of this problem before.

What happened when you turned off the AMP?

Unfortunately, the only Samsung setting that can fix that crummy Transformers movie is turning the TV off, lol.

Regarding frame interpolation, isn't that an On or Off feature? The TV either is generating the intermediate frames, or it is not. The only modification to the interpolation I can think of - would be changes to the algorithm that determines the makeup of the intermediate frames. Maybe that is what occurs with the Samsung variable setting? But the viewer is still stuck with double the frames - hence the soap opera effect. (If some interpolated frames were dropped, then the viewer could encounter the mentioned hitching, but not sure why Samsung would want to implement interpolated frame drops.)

When I was shopping for TVs a couple years ago, I spent some time viewing various models at the retailers with interpolation features turned on and off. I saw the scrolling text demo - but how often am I watching scrolling text. For the most part, the only time I had preference for interpolation was on some animated movies. (As suggested, perhaps the animation is easier to handle in terms of the interpolation algorithms.) My solution - I saved some cash with a 60hz TV, and now I don't worry about judder/interpolation settings.

Well, at least I know I'm not alone. It sounds like a waste to call for service as so many others have it and Samsung doesn't seem to want to do anything about it.

I did the latest firmware update last night and it made no difference.




First, I set it to "clear" and it made a small difference. Setting it to "Off" made the most difference but I could still spot it. It didn't rid me of the problem completely. Each decrease just made the problem improve somewhat.

Can some of this be a compression artifact as well, considering how much some cable channels exhibit signs of heavy compression?

Great news. Since we couldn't get Samsung to fix (or even acknowledge) this problem, a software engineer decided to fix the problem himself. This would require us to install an enhanced firmware (SamyGO). It will be available at least for the "D" series LCD TVs. The firmware will also most likely fix other issues as well and add a few more capabilities.

He also explained what was the cause of the problem and how he will address it:

I get this issue of stuttering on all formats, I watch a lot of live sports and it's very annoying unless set to "clear".

Where was this originally posted? And what is status of this fix? How will it be applied to our tvs and will it void warranty? I love my tv except for not having AMP work correctly.

Hello all,

I just read this entire thread. I have been researching this problem for a while now because I thought I was crazy for seeing it. Even my wife noticed the frame drops and she doesn’t really have an eye for the subtle differences in picture settings. I wanted to add something to this thread that may have not been posted. For what it’s worth, I am not sure whether this is a desired fix or not.

I have an LN46C750, LN40D630, and a LN40B650

The B model works great. It’s a shame that I didn’t buy a bigger one when they were being manufactured. It seems that the smoothing effect produces more pixilation artifacts but there was never any frame skips and drops.

The C and D models both have the frame dropping problem. I have tried every setting I can think of. I am the type of person to play with it for hours if it bothers me. I have tried every iteration of custom and the presets. The only one that works is clear. However, I have read on cnet and in other threads that clear does not properly handle 24fps. It adds its own 3:2 pulldown. Does anyone know if that is true? Also, does anyone know any good blu-ray scenes for testing cadence and judder? Like some long pans or something?

Also, I have a panny 210 blu-ray player attached to the C750. I turned 24p off on the b;u-ray player and that has removed the frame skipping all together. I watched movies on standard and smooth and there was no frame drop. Although this was good, I am aware that the blu-ray player is sending a 3:2 signal and I am telling myself it is not as good. There seems to be an intangible loss in quality with 24p turned off. However, I would recommend trying this of you want the soap opera look and no frame skips. It works so far. Again, if anyone knows some good pan scenes on a blu-ray movie I can see how this setup looks with film cadence.

Lastly, I am going to do a factory reset like the one posted above and I will post whether or not the frame skip still happens. I have the latest firmware already so I will reset and try again. I am not worried about losing settings because I have basic adjustments anyway. Nothing to major is at stake. I will let you know if this helps.

So, try turning 24p off and see if that helps, and I will try and find some good source material for seeing what negative effects it has on the cadence of the film. And I will post whether the factory reset had any effect.

I factory reset my c750 last night using the service menu. I then made some minor birghtness adjustments and used the standard setting in AMP. I watched Salt on blu-ray and I am sorry to report that there are still frame drops and skips. I then changed the setting to custom 10/3 and it still skipped. It seems the skips are more pronounced in the custom 10/3 setting. stryke72, I am not sure how you fixed yours but it did not work for me. What settings are you using?

I am currently using custom 10/1 and I disabled the audio output over the HDMI cable. I will test this tonight. I am still trying to find a movie that has a long enough pan where I can see the hitching motion that is often described with 3:2 pulldown. I am curious if the cnet posting was correct when they said that clear mode uses 3:2 pulldown, because that seems to be the only settting that is free of frame skips.

CNET uses the helicopter pan from "I Am Legend" to test for 2:3 pulldown judder with 24fps sources.

The one move I don't have...LOL. Thank you. I will look at getting a hold of that. Is what the reviewers wrote about the clear setting accurate? Does it introduce 2:3 pulldown?

I wanted to post this quote that I just found on the Samsung support website and see if it makes sense to anyone. This was found in the questions and answers page for the LN46C750 TV.

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"This TV is a fully capable 240Hz set and offers the Auto Motion Plus feature that enhances said 240Hz image. This set will always upscale your 60Hz signal to 240Hz, regardless of any settings you may have active. However, in order to receive the full 240Hz benefit (judder and blur reduction, and frame interpolation), you will need to have Auto Motion Plus active. The reason you are seeing the 60Hz in the info box is because the info box only displays the signal’s actual Hz and screen resolution and not the info of the picture on the screen after the TV processes it. Meaning that the 60Hz you are seeing is the signals actual Hz and not the screen’s Hz. Currently there is no way to display the screen’s Hz in the info box. Coincidentally, the Samsung TVs can only accept a 60Hz signal."

-MrSamsung
1 year, 2 months ago
Username
MrSamsungSamsung HQ

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The part that concerns me is where he wrote that it only accepts a 60hz signal. I wonder if thats why it drops and or skips frames using the AMP. Could this be true? I have turned off 24p as a source and it has improved the AMP significantly. Maybe the TV was not designed to properly handle a 24hz signal. Or am I not understanding this correctly?

that quote simply means all current TVs can only accept up to a 60Hz signal, not anything higher such as 120Hz or 240Hz; in other words, since a 24Hz input signal is under the maximum possible input signal of 60Hz, it's also supported

why is AMP broken on 2010/2011 models? that is the million dollar question

now a question to owners of 2012 Samsungs with AMP: is it working correctly this year?

Thank you. I am also curious about the E models. And, I would like to add that I watched LOTR: Two Towers last night with 24p turned off and I still noticed a frame skip. Now, this could have been a hitching caused by the film cadence (2:3) because it was a panning scene, but I do not know. I am not sure that I even know what I am looking for in terms of the hitching motion described with 2:3 film cadence. Anyway, I guess its clear mode again. Thank you for the reply.

what position was AMP in when you watched LOTR?

I had AMP set to custom 10 blur, and 3 judder.

As an additional side note: I turned 24p back on last night and watched The Bourne Identity with Custom 10 blur, and 0 judder, and there was still frame skips. I don't understand how clear mode does not behave that way even when any other setting still causes frame skips. Tonight I am going to try custom with blur 0, and judder 0 and see how it behaves. I am willing to live with clear mode being the only thing that works but it frustrates me that this mode is the only thing that does work (at least I have not seen any skips yet). What is so special about the clear setting? Anyway, I was doing some research and someone on the UNxxES6100 page reported that he/she is experiencing a stuttering problem and was asking for advice. It appears that the E models still have the problem. Does anyone know if the plasma TV's have this AMP problem? I am willing to convert....LOL.. thanks for the help.

try off.... it should work like clear, but without the smoothing effect

I have the same issue and I even mentioned it in another thread. My set is the ES7500 and it stutters exactly as you describe, but only when watching my FiOS cable. Most channels do not stutter - but a few random ones do, and not always. I have a problem with TNT or TBS, one of those, when Law and Order is on. The show stutters bad - virtually unwatchable, like it's stop-motion animation. Yet when it goes to a commercial the commercials are fine, no stuttering. Then the show comes back on and it stutters again! I see this happen randomly. Sometimes the problem channels seem fine.

I also noticed the same behavior on an LCD set I tried last year from Samsung.

This is with the AMP setting to OFF. So for my stuttering it can't be the AMP since I usually leave it off.

I also notice artifacting when using AMP with custom and blur reduction at anything other than 0. I've tested it several times, on several channels, and it definitely reduces blur - very noticeable during hockey or basketball games - but the tradeoff is strange artifacting, especially around channel logos, on-screen scores, any on-screen graphics tend to collect artifacting. When blur reduction is off the artifacting disappears. I noticed in the ES8000 thread another user noticed the artifacting as well and doesn't use the blur reduction because of this.

I find this hard to believe. I play blu-ray discs and media player files at 24fps and the ES7500 handles it fine. And this is what CNET said in their recent review of the ES8000:

"The UNES8000 has the best video processing of any TV this year, mainly because of its numerous options that perform well. First and most important, it delivers the correct cadence for 1080p/24 film-based material, namely when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is set to either Off or Custom with a 0 on the "judder reduction" slider. Other AMP settings affected film cadence negatively to my eye; Clear showed the slightly halting cadence of 2:3 pull-down, which is still preferable to the buttery smoothness of Standard and the buttery-while-listening-to-Kenny G smoothness of Smooth.

If you happen to like smoothness, aka the "soap opera effect," you'll appreciate that Custom's "judder reduction" slider actually works well to gradually make the image smoother in subtle stages as you move from 0 to 10 -- in contrast to other makers' TVs, which don't offer nearly that level of customization. The move from 0 to 1 on the slider was actually so subtle that I, an admitted film cadence purist, was half-tempted to watch at 1 instead, since it took a bit of the "edge" off the most juddery sequences.

In terms of motion resolution all modes, with the exception of Off, delivered the full 1,200 lines in my test, and Clear looked the best of the bunch, with a bit less trailing than the rest. To get the full resolution I set Custom's "blur reduction slider" to 10. If you've been paying attention, that means that in Custom, at 0 "judder reduction" and 10 "blur reduction" the UNES8000 actually delivered full motion resolution and correct film cadence, a feat few TVs can match."

I can't see how the tv wouldn't accept 24p content. Like I said, I've been playing blu-rays in 24p and I have no problem at all with stuttering while watching blu-rays, or watching 24p files off my media player when outputting 1080p/24 or 720p/24.


Also - Do you guys actually call these issues in to Samsung via telephone? If not, these issues will never get fixed. A Samsung tech told me a while ago when I called that their firmware fixes get priority based on how many phone calls they get in - they have software that creates a pie-chart of how many calls come in about what problems - the bigger the piece of the pie chart, the more likely they will address it. Complaining on the forum can help to spread the word, and maybe see if there is a common problem, but if you want results, please, call Samsung and report it!
Edited by eagle_2 - 7/12/12 at 11:17am