Taiyo Yuden DVDs...now using JVC name...still any good? - Page 5

Using Nero and LG, I have never scanned a disc that came back error free. Most of my discs scan with a score in the mid 90's, like in the picture I posted earlier.

This next picture I enclosed is of a disc I rejected. Although the disc plays fine on my DVD player, I did see a colour impurity on the disc after burning on my stand-alone. I scanned it and sure enough Nero (with my LG PC burner) shown plenty of errors around the 3-gig space. Just like my visual inspection shown bad colour in a spot. So obviously my LG burner reads errors just fine using Nero DVD speed.

I did read a few rumors that LG made Nero exclude the quality test because the slow read time (less then real time) puts extra stress on the burner. My only suggestion is that you go into the advanced menu - uncheck the jitter test and put the test length all the way to the right - accuracy instead of speed - like in the image I included. And try again.

I'm using a LiteOn IHAS424 drive and Nero reports error rates from it with no problems.

I have an LG drive and did the registry mod. The Quality test works but takes a long time. From what I previously read is that the LG has to do each of the 3 error tests separately so it takes a lot longer then when using a Lite-On or other drive. That this has to do with the chip in the drive.

I gave a test disc to my friend with a Lite-On drive and got a lot different results than I did. It's difficult/impossible to compare results between drives, at least that what I understand.

Every test I run on my drive is different. They're all in the same general range, but the numbers can vary by 10-30% on each run (more variation for very good burns where the numbers are quite low).

It's quite a testament to the designers of the encoding scheme that it's able to read disks so reliably despite all the noise.

Thanks, Luke!

The saddest part of this whole JVC episode is its all for nothing. JVC has absolutely no media brand recognition with North American consumers whatsoever, if they're remembered at all its for their SVHS tapes for the tiny high end market and bottom-feeding multipak regular VHS at Kmart on the low end. Probably no one under thirty even remembers the blank VHS.

The whole point of TY licensing the JVC name was to get inroads into a retail presence, instead of remaining a specialty brand sold only by "Joe sent me" word of mouth at web dealers: a nice fantasy, but it ain't gonna happen. TY would have to drop its QC into the sewer and ramp production up hugely to meet rock-bottom retailer wholesale demands, and even after all that effort and trashing their rep would still be a fifth-tier brand. People will not touch anything at retail except Memorex, TDK, and Maxell: even Sony would be dead without Staples constantly whoring them for pennies, and Verbatim has now completely flushed itself to stay price competitive with its awful new "Life" series. The only brands surviving beyond those five are private-label ultra-discountable stuff: unless TY wants to totally slum and compete in that arena, "JVC" has no chance as a premium retail media brand. If Verbatim could not sustain premium quality at retail, TY is delusional to think it can.

As the saying goes, "they shoulda stayed in bed". Better a whale in a dwindling premium pond than a minnow swallowed by sharks in the retail ocean. The same transition was attempted by a company I contracted with for most of the last decade, with disastrous outcome. It had been a closely held supplier of luxury goods with a very limited retail presence, as a niche company it did spectacularly well with margins you would not believe if I told you. For the first 20 years it had only a Beverly Hills showroom, in 2000 it expanded to New York and Florida but remained niche and controlled completely by the founder. That person was eccentric, to say the least, but built the firm from zero to multi-multi-millions. Four years ago they became obsessed with the notion of growing exponentially, into a major chain with broad consumer recognition. A whole cadre of outside "sales managers" and "consultants" were hired, who immediately began trying to fit this odd, small but extremely profitable entity into the generic business expansion spreadsheets they learned at Harvard. The result was dispirited, demoralized employees and plummeting sales volume, dealt a final crippling blow by the recession hitting just as the firm was leveraged to the point of insanity to fund its overexpansion. Had the owner just strayed the course and remained king of the niche, the company would still be on solid ground today, instead of receivership.

A quest for the retail market makes no sense. TY's niche is/was the professional market, video production and data archivists--anybody who needs a DVD to last longer than 20 minutes. What's better: making a 10% margin on smaller sales volume to customers who bring you steady repeat business, or 1% on high volume sales to customers who don't know your brand from chicken s.......salad and will buy whatever garbage is on sale that week at WalStaplesMartDepotMax? But we all read the press release when the TY/JVC venture began....go figure.

I just got in a new batch o' TY/JVC 8x DVD-R. Think I'll burn some of those right away to see if I have any problems.

I think that if TY used JVC's mass marketing connections to get shelf space in a few B&M stores, while maintaining high quality control, and marketing their discs under their own name - stating that they are the most reliable, archival quality, right on the package - they could maintain their niche as a high-end manufacturer, and have all the business they could handle.

I'm not sure that would work. Several years ago I saw a few attempts at retail marketing of "archival" quality DVDs with hardcoat protection and supposedly superior dyes. But they didn't last long in the stores and I have to assume that there just wasn't enough support for them at the higher prices.

I'm not saying there isn't a demand, I just think it's too small a percentage of the market to make it worthwhile for a retailer to stock them. I suspect it's only a relatively small number of fairly high-volume Internet dealers who can get enough orders to make it feasible for them to carry these kinds of premium discs.

We're a land of cheapskates, it seems...

As a follow-up, my current 100 disc spindle of JVC/TY 8x Premium Line DVD-R media is from lot GG000339.

I've found perhaps four "mist cloud" discs in this spindle. The "mist clouds" on these discs are only observed by close examination. This lot's "mist cloud" discs have been used for normal recording/finalizing without any complication.

Some time ago one of my posts mentioned that TY discs are prone to attract dust particles more than other brands.

I've found the best way to remove dust from TY discs is with a can of compressed air.

I'll heartily second that! Anything else I've tried tends to leave scratches, but compressed air usually gets everything off with no fuss or damage.

But you do have to be a bit careful with a new can - spraying too long or hard drops the air temperature quite a lot and you can end up with liquid stains on the disc.

Just to remind you, I had bought eight 100 disk cake boxes of JVC T-Ys a few months ago. I have now gone through five of them. Earlier I found one lot that had a basic incompatability with my International model Panasonic DVD recorders. I tried three EH59/EH69 machines, and that particular lot number had errors, at the exact same place (around 69% through the disk) every time. It worked fine with my EH55, EH75, EH50 and my CopyPal and Microboards duplicators. It was just with the EH59/EH69 that the problem existed.

At least one of the five worked fine, error free, with my EH59/EH69 recorders, and two were unknown because I never tried them with the EH59/EH69. Well, I am working on spindle five, lot GG007091, and it too has the incompatability, and again ONLY with the EH59/EH69 machines. Oddly, the errors occur at the same place, but not the same place as with the previous lot. The errors I got with this lot were at 51% (according to the test mode of my duplicator). Again, no issues with any other burners, just the International Panasonics.

I have no explanation, but thought I should post it. As before, I used disks from an older T-Y spindle (NOT labeled JVC T-Y) and those worked without problem in my EH59/EH69 machines.

Does anyone know a phone number or address at Panasonic and Taiyo-Yuden where I could report this?

I don't know why but when I record my afternoon Court shows my DR570 Toshiba digital DVD Recorder ( I own 2 of them ) every TY DVD- blank always gives me approx 4 hours and 20 minutes in LP. I am not sure what my 2 Panasonic analog Recorders do since I stopped using them once I bought the 2 Toshibas. I have 3 old Panny DVD recorders, 2 ES-15's and one upconverting ES-25 I bought on clearance when CC went out of business. They all had become very picky with blank media only accepting Tayio Yuden discs with other 'premium' brands like Verbatim giving me coasters! The Toshibas seemed to work fine with the leftover Sony, Memorex and Verbatim DVD- blanks but I haven't bought anything but TY discs in 2 years and have never had one bad burn for my time shifting recording. Tayio Yuden discs cost more but I was tired of getting to the finalization stage and ending up with a worthless disc losing all the shows I had recorded. Sorry to ramble on off point but I just wanted to mention I always get 4:20 on LP speed on the TY discs. I bought up a load of 100 packs on sale at Meritline before JVC took over. I also would like to know if anyone has had a bad experience with the new branding.

I don't record at 4 hr. speed, but at 1,2,2.5 and 3 hr. speeds using Magnavox recorders I always get some extra time like 2:07 etc. My Panasonic does not.

Some recorders are a bit more "efficient" than others at the same recording speed, so they can fit somewhat more than the nominal 2, 3, 4 or 6 hours on a DVD. Some machines will only perform this "extra running time" trick in one mode mode or another (timer recording, "live" recording, etc). Panasonics have a third "flex record" option which tends to disregard actual available space in favor of an imposed lower capacity limit. You have to experiment with your machine a bit to see what the max record capacity is in various configurations.

From personal experience, current Magnavox and Toshiba recorders will squeeze the most onto a DVD: I've routinely seen 2:08 at SP and often gotten 2:10. Doesn't matter if recording "live" or via timer. Pioneer recorders will almost always squeeze 2:05 at SP but rarely any more. My old JVC DRMV5S units could pack in 2:06. Both Pioneer and old JVC have manual "flex" speeds which also run a bit more than nominal: if set to 90mins they usually squeeze 92-93 mins, at 130 mins you'll get 137 mins, and so on).

Sometimes I "prep" my TY discs on a Panasonic EZ series recorder with a five to ten second recording then swap the disc into an ES series recorder for normal recording. With my most frequently used LP recording mode (4:00 hours per DVD) "prepped" discs give 4:18 capacity.

With my 2005 Panasonic DMR-EH50 I've found that a high-speed dub of LP hard drive recordings to DVD will give up to 4:12 capacity per DVD. I haven't attempted a high-speed dub beyond that capacity.

With my Magnavox, Toshiba and PYE recorders pressing the DISPLAY/INFO buttons shows the disc capacity. With my Panasonic recorders disc capacity is found by pressing the STATUS button twice or by pressing the SCHEDULE button.

With Magnavox and Philips HDD/DVD recorders see Wajo's table for DVD capacity comparisons between "Real Time" and High Speed" dubbing:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...tcount=19#HSD5

Among my twenty or so Panasonics there is one DMR-ES25 and four DMR-ES15 recorders. As with all Panasonic recorders these models require routine DVD Drive laser lens, rubber hub/spindle area cleaning. See this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14479898

Funai manufactured recorders (Philips, Magnavox, Toshiba, Sylvania, Symphonic, Emerson, PYE, TruTech and others) seldom need to have DVD Drive rubber hub cleaning. The cleaning procedure(s) for Funai DVD Drives are found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post19647592

To extend laser assembly longevity and assure "quality burns" and equipment compatibility I use nothing but Taiyo Yuden 8x Premium Line DVD-R media in my 34 or so Panasonic, Magnavox, Philips, Toshiba and PYE recorders. In a recent SuperMediaStore sale I puchased 800 JVC/TY 8x Premium Line DVD-R discs at $22.91 per spindle of 100. SMS is currently offering around the same price on a box of 600, see http://www.supermediastore.com/produ...to%2075%%20Off! Shipping is free for purchases over $25. I usually try to keep at least 2,000 TY Premium Line discs on hand.

In my CopyPal duplicator (and computers) I use 16x DVD-R media. For archival back-ups I use good quality Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim orange/blue label AZO series discs. One online seller had the Verbatim AZO series discs at $15.99 but I didn't order those as I had just ordered the same discs at $16.99 through NewEgg. I usually try to keep at least 1,200 16x TY and Verbatim AZO series discs on hand.

For free distribution of time-sensitive material I've lately been using CMC junk media in the CopyPal, currently Magnavox branded CMC MAG AM3 DVD-R media, but any other sale priced CMC landfill grade media (such as HP, Philips, TDK, Memorex, Imation, Verbatim white/blue label "Life Series" or several store brands) will do. In late November Office Max had a brief sale of Magnavox 100 DVD spindles at $12.99 (see photo). I bought four or five DVD-R spindles at that price. The Magnavox horizontal lines make for easy labeling with a Sharpie fine point. I have around 330 Magnavox discs left. Once those DVDs are gone I'll use some other cheap CMC brand as most folks won't be attempting to play these duplicated discs after a few months. If someone finds these "dupes" have failed I can always duplicate another copy from the Taiyo Yuden archival master DVD. So, CMC media does have a use before becoming landfill material.

I also bought a few of those $12.99 "landfill" spindles of Magnavox discs on black Friday. I wasn't going to but found myself at Office Max later that Friday and I just couldn't stop myself I'm using them in my computer to make copies of my kids DVDs. They tend to be hard on DVDs and end up scratching them badly, if a copy becomes unplayable I just make another copy from the master. So far I've burned ~30 so far and not one coaster yet but like you, longevity would be a concern if I couldn't easily make another copy.

AFA disc space, all HDD less Panasonics normally only record ~4000MB to a DVD, wasting ~440MB. Recording first to the HDD of a HDD Panny then HS copying to DVD will allow you to totally fill up the discs with 4400MB(~4:15 Min LP). Using FR even on the HDD will only produce a file ~4000MB. The only workaround to totally fill up a DVD with one title using FR is to do as Digado did. That is first record a brief title(I use 5 seconds EP8 speed) on a DVD in a EZ recorder. Delete that title and then record direct to that DVD on a ES(or possibly any older) Panasonic DVDR. Doing this will produce one title ~4400MB for the length you've set FR for. It's really the only time I record direct to DVD anymore, otherwise I usually first record to HDD.

I've been using a DMR-EZ17, DMR-EZ28 and DMR-EA18 for "prepping" TY discs for use in DMR-ES25 and DMR-ES35 models. After about 8 EP seconds of a EZ or EA recording these discs have been yielding a 4:18 disc capacity at LP in ES series recorders. (I haven't been "prepping" discs for use in my DMR-EH series HDD/DVD recorders.)

Lately I've had a few reports of "unsupport" when these "prepped" discs are placed in ES series models. Even when placing some of these discs back in the recorder that made the brief "prep" recording these EZ and EA series recorders have been reporting "unsupport." Have you experienced similar reports?

No I've never got that error and I probably use prepped discs ~2 times/week. The only time I use prepped discs it is if I want to record one title in excess of 3hrs using FR and want to totally fill the disc(but of course it's also handy for getting 2hrs 7 min SP or 4hrs 14 mins LP realtime recording on a HDD less Panasonic).
I use my EZ-28 for the prepping and record a 5 second EP8 title(which I then delete on the EZ-28). I then record the prepped disc on one of my ES-15's, I never really realtime record direct to DVD on my HDD Pannys, I just want to save wear and tear on the drives.

In light of the current tragedy in Japan having potential to cut off supply of TY media, I've been exploring alternatives. Last week I ordered 1000 Verbatim DataLife Plus 8x DVD-R discs, which I received today. I've used these before, and they have almost always worked as well as TY (the only issue I've encountered is occasional kickback from friends who say their crummy 6 year old Kmart DVD players won't play them).

In the past I've used TY exclusively because I know it works flawlessly, and it tends to be 30% cheaper than Verbatim 8x. But in the current situation, with no timeline when many Japanese factories might be back in production, the Verbatims become more attractive. They are made in Taiwan, so supply should not be affected by events in Japan. And this week I noticed a significant price drop at supermediastore, which is selling them for as little as 23 cents each in quantity with free shipping. (Of course I only noticed this after paying 34 cents apiece to another supplier: thats $100 down the drain.) The Verbatims I buy are model number 94852, DataLifePlus 8x DVD-R Shiny Silver Top. At the moment, no one is gouging for TY yet, so I ordered 600 of those as well while they're still available.

I hope I'm being unnecessarily paranoid, and supply of TY remains strong. But if its interrupted for any reason, I recommend the Verbatims as an alternative. Their 8x is still the old original legendary "slow AZO" dye formula, not the CMC-contaminated discount crap that passes for 16x Verb AZO these days.

Here is the most recent Taiyo Yuden press release:

http://www.t-yuden.com/news/detail.aspx?id=169

The Verbatim 8x DataLifePlus AZO professional grade series remains the best choice in the Verbatim product line.

Verbatim is still producing the retail packaged AZO (Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation "MCC") DVDs in the 16x version, see the first photo.

The Verbatim Life Series is the usual retail store faire (China Magnetics Corporation "CMC"). While Verbatim Life Series advertising shows that logo on the discs themselves, I've yet to actually find the "Life Series" logo on Life Series DVDs. So, once Verbatim AZO and Life Series DVDs have been removed from their original packaging these DVDs appear to be identical. One must check the MIT to tell the difference. A Verbatim Life Series DVD (CMCMAG.AM3) is seen in the second photo.

CMC landfill grade DVDs are useful for duplication of current topic material. The third photo shows the first batch of DVDs duplicated with a CopyPal last evening. The Taiyo Yuden master DVD is seen in the red sleeve. The material is recorded to the hard drive at LP on a Panasonic DMR-EH50, commercials are edited out and a TY DVD master disc is high-speed dubbed. The TY master DVD holds up to 4:12 of LP content with high-speed dubbing. Most current FNC one hour-long programs come in with around 40:00 of program content once edited of commercials.

Relying on a single source of supply for blank media has made me uneasy since the days of audio cassettes (early '80s for me), when I'd load up a big supply from a particular brand I'd found reliable, only to discover that the mfr had changed the something in the product and it was now junk.

For music CD-Rs, we have no choice: we're stuck with Sony--fortunately, still reliable.

But for 8x DVD-Rs I've always split my supplies between TY and the Verbs Citibear speaks of. Yes, the Verbs have historically been more expensive, though not so much if you watch the sales on Supermediastore. I prefer to spread the risk. I'd rather spend 5 cents or so more per disc for some of my supply, but down the line if one company or another's discs go to cr*p, at least half of my collection will still be viable. Or maybe all DVD-Rs decay into unusability after 10 or 15 years. We don't know for sure yet. But I don't lose sleep over it: I have recordable CDs that are 10+ years old that have lived in the abusive environment of my car for that entire time, and they still play just fine.

However, the TY press release indicates production may be a little dodgy for a while, but there still seems to be plenty of product in the US supply line. Probably enough to cover the shortfall from Japan until the company gets back up to full production.

Still, even if you do lay in an extra supply of discs, you know you're going to use them eventually, right?

Doesn't TY make music CD-R's?

Not the kind for standalone consumer music CD recorders. Computer CD-Rs won't work in those machines; they will work in $$$ professional-grade CD recorders like Tascams. If I were making archival CDs on my computer, I'd certainly be using TY media!

That's what I use to record them (a Pioneer). Haven't been keeping up with it, and wasn't aware that it's only Sony now. I'll have to remember that next time I'm looking for a batch - although I haven't really recorded anything with it in a couple of years (it's still actually a better CD "player" than the Elite DV-79AVi universal player I bought not too long ago, though, Quite noticably, in fact).

I still have some old, blank Maxell's and Fuji's around, but if I ever start up again, I'll go through those real quick (much, much quicker than I ever do with DVD's, as I've always really been more of an audio person than a video one).

Funny how my drop-off in CD-R recording coincided with not having been to the local library in about the same amount of time (I used to copy a lot of CD's from there, but unfortunately, it's a pretty unpleasant place to be around nowadays).

Yes, one of my best sounding CD players is my old Pioneer PDR-W739. And among my DVD/Universal players, it's the Pioneer S-1800. And I remember reviewing a high-end Pio years ago that really made CDs sound fantastically good. At the time, I returned the review machine because I wasn't smart enough to ask if I could *buy* it a a discount. Duh.

I have the 739 in the back bedroom with the "B" system. It's recording side is back up and running dubbing LPs to CD.

It appears the only standalone music recorder that's still currently in production is a Teac. I found a few used backup machines on eBay several years ago, including a pretty nice Yamaha (not the fancy HDD model, though). So apparently there are still people like us out there who prefer that mode of working, just as we do with DVDRs.

I'm amazed that the music CD-Rs are still available (every time I pass by a Target, I snag a few cake boxes). Standalone CD recorders were hampered by SCMS (though I have a Sony that gets around it) and were pretty quickly superseded by ripping-n-burning music from your computer, at least among the mainstream population.

When I first started in 2000, I used TDK media; after a bad cake box of those, I switched to Maxell and Fuji. Then Maxell went south; I did snag a few hundred Fujis before they quit making them. And a few overpriced JVCs. But I haven't seen anything but Sony for the last ~3 years.

One warning: The Sony MUSIC CD-Rs used to have red wrappers on the cake boxes. They changed that, so now the computer CDs are red and the music discs are PURPLE.

Be careful of Amazon and eBay sellers offering music CDs. I got hosed on a batch of 200 discs that appear to have been rejected B stock. Maybe 2 or 3 of them worked in the Pioneer. The rest have worked fine ONLY in the computer, though they are clearly labeled with the music CDR logo. Go figure. I use them for non-critical copies of stuff I've ripped to the PC HDD.


Old stock, probably still good.


That's too bad. As I recall, you live (used to live?) in my home territory, Lake County, IL, right?

What is the difference between a Music CD-R and a Data CD-R?

If I'm burning a music CD on a PC is there a difference and does it matter which I choose?

I still have a few TDK CD-R80CB's left from approx. 2003, Manufacture ID is CMC Magnetics, what is the best for burning Music CDs on a PC now.

PS, I have always used Taiyo Yuden DVD-R 4.7GB 16X Silver Lacquer blanks for DVDs both on a PC and with a Panasonic DMR-EH50S DVD/HDD Recorder. I have rarely had a bad TYG03 blank

True Music CD-R blanks contain a little flag on the disc that tells the standalone audio component recorder "Hi, I'm an authorized Music CD-R and it's OK to record on me." Put a computer/data CD-R in the recorder and it checks the thing out for a while until it finally gives you some message that basically says, "Bad disc, can't record on this."

All music CD-Rs for audio recorders have a logo on the discs and packaging that says "Compact Disc Digital Audio Recordable". A portion of what the mfr makes on the sale of these discs goes to the RIAA, which supposedly has some way of distributing these "royalties" to members.

I have occasionally seen plain old data CD-Rs labeled as music CD-Rs or "for music" but they don't have the logo. Sure, you can burn your MP3s to them--or your photos from your last vacation or last year's tax records. They just won't work in the audio recorder.


No difference, except that Music CD-Rs cost more. They can be used just like any old CD-R to burn music or data from a computer.


Well, CMC DVD-R media doesn't have a very good rep on this forum. I don't know if that applies to their older CD-R media. 2003 was just about the time I got hosed on a bad 50-pack of TDK CD-RMs and stopped buying the brand for anything.

However, my experience has been that computer burners are spectacularly unfussy about CD-R media and will burn just about anything. The real question is how long will the discs last before the dyes break down and they become unreadable. I've never burned "keeper" material from a computer; if I did, I'd probably start with the DVD-R brands I trust, TY and Verbatim.


Me too. I've used a ton of TY 8x and I've had maybe a couple-three burn failures that *may* have been due to defective discs, only because I could attribute them to something else. The other infrequent burn failures that I have are due to some corruption of the data on the DVDR's HDD that causes the write to DVD-R to burp.

Southeastern McHenry County.

I only use PC burners but I have really good luck with Fuji brand CD-R discs. I've been burning CD-Rs for well over a decade now. Using various PC burners of the day. The majority of my discs are Fuji CD-R (hundreds) and as long as they initially burn, I haven't had one fail due to longevity problems. I say as long as they initially burn because I had a few fail while burning, maybe one out of a 100. I use my CD-Rs in my van so they sometimes go through extreme climate changes. I use jewel cases for storage.

I have no idea which dye the Fuji CD-R use but it's possible that they use more than one manufacture and/or change dye manufactures from time to time. Also, there is more to longevity/durability then just type of dye. The bonding procedure, plastics used, how the final product is baked and other stuff also contribute to disc longevity.