The 'I can't believe you want the largest room in the house' HT build.1

Hi there everyone,

Like almost every thread, I should start with some introductions but also with a massive thank you. It would be impossible for me to name all of the people who have helped me (directly or indirectly) with planning ideas, advice and guidance throughout my last 3-4 years of 'lurking' around these parts. Needless to say, I owe a big thank you to so many of you who have made my 'proposed build dream' a 'proposed build reality'. Thanks also to Tony (AVS Tony123) who has spent countless hours on the chat lines and webcam (and has undoubtedly caused me to spend my hard earned money on his recommendations) with his advice. Thanks also for lending his wonderful sketch up skills. I hope that I can swing a hammer a little better than I can drive SketchUp

So, thanks again. This forum is an amazing place of learning and a fantastic place to share ideas, advice and experience. I am humbled with the time that so many here are prepared to give to others with less skills / knowledge and experience (such as myself). I hope that I have learned a bit through my reading and research, but I am hoping that you will all be happy to fill in the gaps and offer any advice and feedback. I certainly claim no expertise in this field. Thanks in advance.

Next, I just need to tell you guys that I am an Aussie living Down Under, so if you see some of the more common words spelt incorrectly, it's not because I can't spell. We just do things kinda different in these parts. So, Theatre is Theater, Bass is Base, Mum is Mom and I am sure there will be a million others. All our measurements are in metres, centimetres and millimetres. Sorry, I will try to change that for you in my thread but if I forget, I apologise in advance. You guys really need to get past all this imperial stuff and jump on the metric bandwagon. What is it with this 5/16 stuff anyway!

Well, after building two homes in the last seven years, we are about to embark upon the construction of our third and (hopefully) our forever home. It is in the suburbs of Sydney, Australia and construction should start in the coming weeks. After building my first home with no home theatre and the second with nothing more than a small alcove containing a few inwall speakers, a 70 inch painted screen and Infocus X1 projector (it was an oldie!), I decided that the home that they will have to drag me out of will contain a proper home theatre. It has taken my wife about six months to come to accept the fact that the theatre does represent the largest room in the house. Hence, I have dedicated the name of the thread to my beloved, who seems to constantly raise this point!

Our block of land presented a million challenges and it has taken us since September 2009 to get to the point that we are just a day or two off from having the house plans all rubber stamped and we are away. It has a little of everything. For a start, the block is a battle-ax, sitting at the end of a steep 36 metre (120 foot) drive and behind another home. We have rocks all over (and under) the ground surface. We have a small 3-4 foot ledge across the centre of the block, up until a couple of weeks ago, a large tree sat in the middle of the building platform, it slopes from side to side and front to back. No career in real estate sales for me. It's not a great block but it's in the area we want to live and it does have 'potential'. Here are some photos from the survey...








And here is our home...



I will shoot through the internal floorplans in my next post (just in case you all doze off!), but I know what sticklers for full info you guys are. So, that's about it. My first entry of my first build thread. Thanks for getting this far and I look forward to following many of you guys along your own personal HT journeys.

Cheers

Greg

Thanks very much for that. Still learning so I appreciate the advice. I will certainly do that for future posts. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Greg

OK, worked out how to post pics properly now. Here are the internal floorplans, both upstairs and downstairs. The reason for the staggered shape of the front of the home is that there is a sewage pipe that runs diagonally across what would normally be the building platform. Did I forget to mention that????? So did the Real Estate Agent!

Downstairs


Upstairs (Theatre Level)


We really had to compromise on the theatre location, due to very strict council regulations. We have height restrictions with our local government, which has seen our home change from a dwelling with a high pitched gabled roof and a theatre room right at the base of the block to a flat roof home with the theatre now above the garage. Still, I have done my best to work around the issues and hopefully with the forthcoming work, we will end up with a great home and home theatre.

G'Day Whumph, that's what I thought, but I think someone may be pulling my chain on that one! Bass is Bass. Got it! Will be the first of many I imagine!
Have a great day.
Greg

Hi Anjel, thanks very much. It's a really exciting time and I am looking forward to things getting moving soon. Kind regards, Greg.

And here is the equipment list for the room....

Mitsubishi HC-6800 1080P LCD projector
Anamorphic Research 2 element prism A-Lens with astigmatism correction element
Seymour AV Center Stage AT material (enough for a 150 inch dia 2.37:1 scope screen)
Chief RPA-U ceiling mount kit
Sony BDP-CX960 400 BD disc Mega Changer player
Sony PS3 for gaming
Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player
Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player (spare player)
Marantz DV-6001 universal disc / SACD / DVD Audio player
Pioneer CLD-D390 Laserdisc player
Emotiva ERC-1 Reference CD player
Emotiva UMC-1 preamp - AV processor
Emotiva USP-1 stereo pre-amp (2 channel listening)
Emotiva XPA-5 5 x 300W RMS amp (4 ohms)
Emotiva UPA-2 2 x 185W RMS amp (4 ohms)
Behringer EP-4000 plate amp (for subs)
Niles Pro 2770 LCR speakers x 3 (front Sound Stage)
Emotiva ERD-1 dipole / bipole speakers for side and rear surrounds (x4)
Danley DTS-10 Horn Loaded sub kits x 2
Buttkicker BKA-300 wireless buttkicker kits for recliners (x2)

Well, that's what I have so far for the room. Hopefully I have my requirements covered. I know that the 2 x Danley kits are going to be overkill for my space, but then I would rather have the headroom and the ability to let loose while the wife is away! I chose the Niles speakers as they were firstly, great value, secondly, highly recommended and thirdly offered excellent placement options with the swiveling mid and tweeter assembly (see pic below)



Room construction details to follow....

OK guys, this is an option for the proposed layout of the room. Basically, I have a room that sits atop the garage of our new home. It will measure 18.5 feet long x 15 feet wide x 8 feet high and also has a separate equipment room which should be more than adequate to hold my equipment stands. Entry will be by a two (exterior grade solid) door system to eliminate as much sound leakage as possible. The room will have a reasonable level of sound isolation built in (green Glue, double 5/8" drywall and GG clips for all walls, ceiling and Green Glue on the subfloor).

The plans will be a little different than what we are ending up with. The builder will now be supplying a single door to the equipment closet. This is something that showed up when the room was drawn with Sketchup (thanks again Tony!). Apart from that, it is all pretty much as the plans are. I am looking to build a false wall, approximately 20-24 inches in depth on the left hand wall (the Danleys are 16 inches thick and I need to leave some room for wall treatments). The false wall will be covered entirely by the screen and black acoustically transparent material from a local supplier here in Australia (RIM Fabrics Trilogy One range).

At the other end of the room will be a 6 foot deep riser, between 10-12 inches in height (to be calculated still) and two rows of 4 recliners, giving us seating for eight. I know that we are trying to fit a fair bit into a medium sized room, but that is all that I have to work with. Here are some Sketches of what I am thinking...









Here are the recliners that we have. We have two rows of these, in this colour. Apologies for the poor quality scan



The windows will be plugged with multiple layers of GG and then covered with fabric. I have not decided on any internal sound treatments yet. I know that many over there use Linacoustic but I cannot find it over here and as soon as you mention Home Theatre over here, prices just skyrocket. This is very much a limited budget project.

So, over to you guys now. This is the general plan at this point. I guess there are more options out there than I have considered. The main limiting factors that I have are the length of the room and how it affects the A-Lens and the placement of the Danleys. My preference would be for them to be put behind the front wall. There is the option to build them into the riser, but then it would be very high (about 17-18 inches high) and I only have 8 foot (2440mm) ceilings.

I had not really considered building soffits in the room, as I feel that they would encroach upon the limited space that I have. I have purchased 6 art deco themed sconce lights, which I will dig up and post. Actually came from a fellow AVS'er who lives in Melbourne. Hopefully they will illuminate the room enough for it's purpose. Don't want to use downlights as I am trying to minimise the amount of holes in the drywall to reduce sound leakage.

Any opinions of the layout would be warmly welcomed.
Thanks
Greg.

Hi there Peter,
Fancy seeing you on here! We are forced to use a US website to chat when we live 5 streets away...

Relax mate..it's not all about the size I think that you will have about a 3 month start on me so there are absolutely no excuses. As long as you get Loganed before me I will be happy! I can't imagine that I will be finished before you. Better still, lets see who loses by running out of money first. That could be the challenge. You may win that one as well! Does comparing notes involve Beer??? If so, I am in!!!!!

BTW, would you believe that the seats actually came from John Cootes Furniture at Tuggerah. Not overly expensive at $1500 for the row and they are very comfortable. I looked at some of the local dedicated HT brands and they are about triple the price. All being well, and being that I don't spend too much money (which has long since passed according to she who rules the roost), I don't figure on sleeping in the theatre so they will be fine. Actually pretty happy with them for the money.

Hi Peter,
I guess that, like everything, you get what you pay for. The Topforms are probably a lifelong investment and of a significantly better quality, but I figured that these chairs will be used maybe 3-6 hrs per week tops, and they should last a while at that rate. I actually wanted to put genuine theatre seats in the room (2 rows of 5) which actually would have cost a lot less than I spent, but the boss told me that she wanted to be comfortable so we got the recliners. I am happy with the choice.
C'mon Peter, you have had 24 hrs to critique my plans. You gotta come up with something wrong!
Regards
Greg

Hi there Peter,

Thanks for the feedback mate. I agree that moving the seats off the wall will give much better sound. I think from memory the seats are only about 4 - 4.5 feet deep even with the foot rest up, so a six foot riser should be OK to still have them off the wall, even if it's only a foot or just over off the rear wall. I will move them as far forward as possible. If I need to add a little depth to the riser I will. I have a feeling that the screen will be smaller in size than originally planned, so viewing angles can be maintained by moving the front row forward just a little. I guess a lot is going to be worked out once I can get the seats into the room and actually watch a few programs and see what viewing angles suit us, how the projector and lens work at different sizes and what just looks 'right'.

With regards to the riser, I was planning to stuff it to capacity with R3.5 fibreglass batts to quieten it down (I have about 8 large bags filling up my garage from the failed insulation scheme sell-off). I have read a little about drilling through the joists but I am unsure as to how that will achieve any effect. There must be some but any ideas would be welcome. Would there be a noticeable improvement in room acoustics by doing this? Also, can you give me an idea how much that acoustic matting cost you that you used under your stud walls. Would it be of benefit to use that under the stage (which is where the Danleys will most likely be located)?

I think that I will work out the other acoustic treatments a little further into the project. I see all these great theatres on here with the OC703 bass traps. I think our equivalent is the Ultratel but I am not sure if the budget would stretch to doing the front wall and bass traps in that material. It's about $100 a piece. OUCH!

And go easy on the Laserdisc ribbing. Part of me really misses spending 80 bucks on a movie. Not sure which part but I am sure I have a few that owe me that much. I have the Star Wars Trilogy (4, 5 and 6) that cost $200 for the box. I still enjoy watching movies on LD. Call me sad but they have a certain charm about them. It was a real novelty in those days not to have to rewind a movie at the end. Ahh, the good old days!

OK, me back again with a question. I am not far off having to let the builder know about building materials for the HT. This is the plan so far:

I have tried to encompass as much in the design as I know for stopping sound exiting the room. It is important that this is an area that I can go to and watch movies at a time that suits me and not upset other members of the family and neighbours. I have an understanding wife (most of the time!) and a 3yo boy who goes to bed early. I work shift work, so I am often watching at odd hours. In line with the various constraints that I had with regards to Council height requirements, the need to have windows incorporated into the plans and space limitations, I have managed to incorporate a double door arrangement, which will hopefully reduce significantly any sound leakage through this means. The doors will be solid core, exterior grade and I will be sealing them on the bottom of the door with a standard rubber door seal (something simple).

I have also managed to incorporate an air space between the Home Theatre wall and bedroom 4. What would be the recommended material to line this cavity to provide the greatest sound insulation and prevent noise travelling into that room from the HT?

I have designed the Master Bedroom so that one of the Walk in Robes is adjoining the HT. I anticipate using a solid core sliding cavity door on this WIR to further reduce sound transmission into the Master Bedroom.

The Equipment room will have a single exterior grade solid core door to reduce the noise from equipment fans entering the HT.

Other factors in the proposed design:

*Standard construction 2 x 4 wall studs
*All walls and the ceiling within the home theatre and the equipment room will be
mounted on Whisper Clips.
*Walls and ceiling will be double drywall layered with Green Glue.
*Windows will be plugged with multiple layers of drywall with Green Glue.
*The floor will be double skinned with Green Glue to stop sound leakage to the
garage and through the subfloor into other rooms. Floor will be carpeted, using thick
rubber underlay.
*The whole room will be fabric covered (including the ceiling). There will be some sort of
acoustic treatment under the AT fabric (to be worked out later). I am using
FabricMate track (expensive but hopefully worthwhile - cost me a small fortune to
freight the tracks over here!)

First question at this point is what drywall should I be using. My understanding is that when using GG and whisper clips, it is unnecessary to spend the extra for the acoustic drywall. This material is quite expensive over here. I am hoping that 5/8" drywall (double layered) should be enough for what I am hoping.

Any feedback from you guys out there would be great. I am sure that there will be a million more questions along the way regarding just about everything, but I am going to need to specify building materials pretty soon so your advice would be great.

I am thick skinned, so please be honest. Feel free to comment on absolutely anything about the layout, plans, equipment choice, screen size, whatever. This project is a learning experience for me and I am hoping that, with your help, it can be a success.

Thanks guys once again. For those who have been in contact with me, I really appreciate it. Please keep the comments coming....even the nasty ones about me showing my age with Laserdiscs. Sorry, But I also have a very nice Coleco-Vision video game system and Atari 2600 in the garage if you feel the need to strike a real low blow. Cheers!

Hi there Adam and welcome. I thought everyone here had girls in bikinis hanging around in their ht's. No? Must just be the Aussie charm then! Welcome mate. I have been watching your thread. Thanks for the great sound isolation questions.... I have learned heaps from you, Ted and others. Thanks again. Greg.

Hi there Chris and thanks for the comments. Welcome! Personally the girl in the bikini is just there as a distraction so that you miss all the problems with my build. I hope to see you round on here. Btw, how is all that gear going now in your room?
Cheers. Greg.

Hi Ted, nice to see you here. Really appreciate and respect your comments. Hope that you will bear with me through this build. The whole sound isolation process has been a very steep learning curve and I am humbled by those who have so much knowledge in this field. Thanks for your input. Please feel free to critique to your hearts content! Regards. Greg.

Thanks again Peter. Appreciate your feedback. Tell me you've got bikini clad girls hanging around in your room! Give us all some hope! Greg.

Hi there Dixon, I was fully intending to go for the Niles rears but then wanted to go 7.1. The Emotiva surrounds were half the price which meant that I could afford a second danley kit. Being that the Emotiva speakers were well regarded surrounds, I went for the choice which had the biggest impact. Glad to hear that you are happy with your 2770's. What are you driving them with? Cheers. Greg.

Hi there Flyng,

I went for the second Danley for two reasons. The main was after hearing from another user on the forum (Tony123) who had so many placement problems using one. From the very size of them, placement options are a little more limiting than other subs. He has found the second unit has brought his bass to life. Oh, and the other reason.... because I really, really really didn't need it! But at the price, they were a steal. Believe me that they cost not much less each to sea freight them over here.
Thanks for dropping by.