Star Ceilings... Painted or Fiber optics? - Page 8

bl2bl2.... Good luck with this project! I hope the paint works out for you. I look forward to seeing the finished product. And... remember that it is easier to add more stars than it is to take some off. Just sayin... :-)

From my experience... the answer is no, the rope lights won't do a very good job at charging the paint. And, after researching LED lights... they don't do much better. I even tested LED Grow Lights... and wasn't too impressed. For me, the black light is the best source of light to charge up glow paint. Or, if you really don't want to use black lights... then the white CFL bulbs will work nicely.

I like using black lights because it doesn't affect the eyes like white light does, so your eyes are ready to see the mural once the lights go out.

A black light shining on a glow surface for 30 seconds will cause that surface to be 10 times brighter than a flashlight on it for 6 hours. And, I would say that rope lights would be similar to a flashlight and LED lights.

Here is a simple list of bulbs in order from the [LEAST to the MOST efficient:

White LED's
Blue/Purple LED's
Incandescent - standard light bulb
Compact Fluorescent or CFL - spiral tube, screw-in
Fluorescent Bulbs - long tubes
UV LED's
Black Light Tube
Direct Sunlight

What is really important in charging the paint is the light spectrum. And to not go into a lot of things that would put everyone to sleep (including me), let me just say that as of today... black lights have the right light. Sunlight is the best, but it isn't always around when you need it to charge up the paint... and the paint needs the light to hit the paint directly.

If white light is needed use CFL "Daylight" bulbs. That's what I use in my room. I changed out our incandescent bulbs in the ceiling fan with CFL's... and the ceiling is instantly visible when the lights go out.

Hope that helps!

But, still put in the rope lights. They are nice for creating a nice effect, just not for charging the paint.

Jeff
Night Sky Murals

Tom... Thanks for verifying my information.

I have had a few customers do things that they think are better... only to complain that the murals aren't glowing right. One customer in NC had little 25 or 40 watt bulbs (the ones that look like little candle flames) under her ceiling fan. I told her before I even painted that she would either need to change those out to the CFL (spiral lights) which would be perfect for her ceiling, or she would need to have some other light source (preferably black light) nearby that she could bring out for 10 to 15 minutes in the evening. She never did any of those things... and kept expecting those little low watt "flame bulbs" to charge up her mural. Her husband was mad at her because he thought that she'd been snookered and she has written a couple of times telling me how unhappy she is. I keep asking her if she has ever tried using a light as suggested. The answer is always no. What can I do when she won't listen... and she knew before I ever painted. And she was very impressed when I showed it to her after I finished painting. She wanted to show all of her neighbors back then. Oh well.

Another customer in Dallas had me paint her boys room. When I finished she couldn't stop telling me how incredible the mural was. It wasn't six months later that I got an email telling me that the mural just wasn't glowing very well. They could only see a handful of stars and she asked me to come by and repaint the ceiling. I said that I would do it, if she could wait a month or two until I was back in Dallas.

well, I flew into Dallas, went right over to her house, blacked out the windows, covered the furniture and set my black light out while I got my paints and tools ready. When I turned off the black light... the mural was perfect, just like the day I'd painted it and I stood there for a minute wondering what she wanted repainted. So, I called her up to the room to point out what she wasn't happy with. As soon as she walked into the room... she said, "Wow! I haven't seen the mural like this since the day that you painted it!" I then looked up at the ceiling fan (that had 4 lights under it) and noticed that there were still incandescent bulbs in there. I asked her what she was charging the paint with (thinking that she must be using a black light or something) and she said, "Nothing other than the lights in the ceiling fan." I reminded her that I'd told her to get those CFL bulbs and replace the incandescents with them. She said that she didn't think that they'd make that much of a difference. A week later, after I was back home planning my next trip, I got an email from her telling me how sorry she was for having me make a trip back out there and that she'd gone out, right after I'd left, to buy those CFL lights... and that the mural was perfect. Well, at least one out of the two customers who'd had a problem listened.

The other customer is still waiting for her little lights to charge up her ceiling... and she's still mad at me. You know... I think that I will send her a black light.

Anyway, my A.D.D. is getting the better of me and I am answering way more than needed.

But you have been so gracious in answering people's questions on here... and I appreciate it. These murals are really nice if people will make the room dark and get the light needed to charge up the paint. And, you did what was necessary and you seen to be enjoying the mural. Go figure! :-)

I am still craving that French Toast!!!!! Tom's wife is an incredible cook and they are a great couple. Thanks again Tom.

I too am hoping that LED's or some other technology will come out that will make it easier to charge up the paint. But, even still... I still like the realism of a painted night sky.

Juan... Tom has been very helpful to others who have questions about the murals and lighting. He had me paint one... and he has actual experience. He is very nice to help out. I can say anything I want, or think people want to hear... so I appreciate when Tom, and others, have given their suggestions.

OK, let me try and answer your new post.

I am thinking that your Grafik Eye and rope light are great for your room (if you were planning on having them there anyway. I love rope lights and have painted in many theater rooms that had them. There are really cool things that can be done with them. But, I really wouldn't expect much from them as far as charging the paint.

Can you tell me a little about your soffit? Is it close to the ceiling? Is it a foot or more down from the ceiling? How far does it extend out from the side walls? If it comes down even 7 or 8 inches down... you could put in a couple of black lights up in there, with the rope lights behind them... and you are set. You could probably even set them up on either a switch or a remote.

If the soffit is not that low, you still might get away with getting some black lights up in there, though it might be tough.

Since it is only a 7 x 7 area where you want the stars to be painted... is it out of the question to have a black light in a nearby closet, or behind a chair... or under a sofa, that you could pull out, turn on for 10 minutes and then put away? That would keep costs down to about $30 (if you get an extension cord to go with it) and your ceiling will shine just like you had lights in the soffit.

Now, if you wanted to see stars during a movie... then you'd probably have to have the light on during the movie. In the picture that you included in your post... that customer has the perfect set up. his soffits drop down about 2 feet and come out from the side wall 3 feet. And, on the inside of the soffit it is on an angle. It starts at 2 feet down (in the front) and angles to about 4 inches below the ceiling at the back. He then put in 13, 4 foot black lights. When he has a movie playing with the lights on, the stars are very visible, but not overpowering. I was there watching a movie once and I asked him to turn the black lights off so that I could see the difference... and the stars were still visible and beautiful. Without the bluish or purplish (I'm colorblind) cast from the black lights... the stars were just as real as outside. And, for the remaining hour or so of the movie... most of the stars were still visible, though not as bright as when he first turned out the lights.

Now, to finally get to another of your questions.... the lights that you see in that picture are only from the black lights. He has no rope lights up there. You just notice the brighter lights around the edge of the ceiling because that is where the black lights are.

And, the black lights really don't brighten a room up too much either. Maybe Tom can answer this better if he reads this... but when I was watching the movie with the black lights on, it really didn't affect me, or bother me at all. And, as you can see... the customer in that picture has a lot of lights around the room.

My suggestion for keeping costs down is to go with any lighting that you already have planned for the look that you want to achieve. Then, if you can fit a couple black lights into your soffit... then great. If not, then have one nearby that you can bring out for a few minutes.

Jeff

The customer had a really good camera! Thanks!

OK, that helps. And, with the area to be painted only 6 x 6... that should make things easier to get by with a soffit that is close to the ceiling.

I think that it will work out fine... but let me offer a couple of other options just to see what you think.

First, you might want to consider 2 black lights... on in the front and one in the back. They would charge the entire ceiling... which is important to what you are trying to accomplish.

Then, maybe instead of regular rope lighting... you get some of the new LED rope lights that you can dim and also make brighter by just a remote control. You can also create something like 30 different color combinations (I can't remember the number of colors that you can create, but it was quite a few) with one strand. So, if you want blue... you just adjust the LEDs to show blue. Want red... same thing and so on. So, with one string of lights... you can create any number of moods and looks.

Now, charge up the paint by turning on the black lights. Then, turn them off and turn on the LED strip and adjust the color and brightness to get the effect that you want. You can wash some of the stars out in the rear of the room as if that were the western sky at night... and it would get darker as you go towards the center. You could also accomplish the look by having a good, high powered UV Black Light panel (I have an American DJ 160 watt panel that has 4 lights in it that would do the trick) that you use to charge up the paint for about 5 to 10 minutes and then put it away. Then, you do the LED light trick. I'm thinking that you want to do away with an on-the-ground black light... but in case it doesn't work in the soffit area, a ground one would. Plus, that 4 light box will zap those stars really quickly!

I think, from what you are saying, that the LED's that can change colors and brightness (my wife has been trying to find a brightness remote that would work on me for a while, with no luck) would be really perfect for the effects that you are going for. Then, even if you don't want to charge up the stars... you could still play with the lighting.

OK, those are a few suggestions for you to consider.

The look of the stars will be like looking at the real night sky from a remote location. Even in a 6 x 6 area you will have at least a thousand stars, plus a really nice piece of the Milky Way. Then, with whatever you do with the lights will only enhance the experience. I like the sound of what you are doing.

Jeff

By the way, I used to send out free samples to people... but I got stuck doing only that. But, I can send you a sample for just under $30 (covers the poster paper, paint and shipping) if you want to see a sample of what the mural will look like. I hope that it's OK to mention that here. I wouldn't have if you hadn't mentioned that you can't visualize the mural.

GRBomer... that looks very similar. Those RGB LED's are really nice and are perfect for so many effects in a theater room.

Hi Wanna. Good questions... and I'm glad you brought it up because I do get asked that from time to time... and it hasn't been brought up here yet, and I totally spaced it.

The glowing stars are not a distraction at all. In fact, just like the real stars at night... when there is any kind of light pollution, the stars are washed out. It's pretty much the same with the murals. When a movie is playing (and you don't have a black light on for them to fluoresce) the stars pretty much disappear. To see the stars while a movie is playing, I need to use a special paint that will show up under a black light... and then the black lights will need to be on. As you see in that picture of the theater room that I have posted (that has the black lights around the room) with the black lights on, the stars jump out. When a movie is playing... they would still be visible, but maybe not quite as much as in the picture.

Now, something else. That customer had a 3 foot soffit (out from the side wall) that went around his room... and light from his projector and the screen never really bounced up to the inner part of the ceiling where the mural was.

Here I go again over explaining things and explaining things that weren't asked... Sorry!

In a theater room - if you don't want to see the stars during a movie, then you pretty much just need to leave a black light turned off. There will be some stars that are visible during the darker scenes... but they won't be overpowering. The painted murals are not super bright like fiber optics. They are much more like the real stars. And, if you were at a drive-in during a movie... you might see some stars, but the majority would not be visible.

What a lot of people will do, though, is use the theater room as a kind of relaxation room too., where they can go in, charge up the stars, turn on some relaxing music... and just sit back and melt into the chair.

Did I even get close to answering your question? I can go all over the place sometimes. :-)

Bazzy.... I have seen those projectors before and I think that they are pretty nice. I have even painted ceilings for people who have had them. The movement, which is too fast drove some of them crazy (they said it was kind of like having a astro-disco ball), and the small area that they cover were their main reasons for having a mural painted too.

I thought it was kind of fun to be honest. One that I saw had too many different colors and wasn't very natural, but still fun.

So, they are nice for a small (I think that it said it had to be 6 feet from the ceiling, the shape was a circle, and it was 9 feet in diameter) area. So... my opinion is that they are a nice alternative.

As far as the UK... I would be happy to go there if you can get a handful of friends to all get murals too. I usually try to cover the travel expenses when I travel... so I need to have enough jobs in an area to make it work. But, the UK is not out of the questions.

What part of CA?

I will be out in the Sacramento and also San Francisco areas probably within the next three weeks. It all depends on the weather everywhere else in the country. I was supposed to be heading to Detroit, Indianapolis and Columbus later this week... but I really hate sleeping in airports when my flights are cancelled due to snow. So, I have some customers in Florida that I am trying to coordinate schedules with right now... and may go there, then California, and then to the Detroit/Indy/Columbus area. (Changing travel plans seems to be my life during the winter).

So, if you want to email me your information, city... and also the size of your ceiling, I will get back to you with more information.

I may also be in the Southern Cal area in the next month or two also.

Jeff

Possibly sooner, rather than later.

You know... I have had quite a few people from Canada contact me and tell me that they want me to get up there. I would LOVE to get up your way. And, it is beautiful.

I think that I have a customer waiting in Alberta (I'd have to check) and we are
just waiting for a couple more people to be ready.

I need to renew my passport, which I meant to do last year... but once I have enough work up there... I will do it.

Can you PM me, or email me? If you will, I will get some information from you and we can discuss things.

Jeff

Thanks again Tom. You are always so gracious to help answer these questions. I still think that it is better for someone who is experiencing a mural to answer, than for me. I try to be up front and honest, but it is always better for a non-biased person to answer too. So, thank you!

Jeff

Oh... only a couple hundred! :-)

No, it just depends on the size of the murals to be painted. If you want to email me... we can discuss in more detail the options.

I would love to go to other countries that are close by. I speak Spanish fluently... so I could hit at least Spain. I would love to go to Italy too because my great grandfather came over to the USA from there. I would love to visit his small town there.

Email me and lets see what we can figure out. I would love to visit your area. I'm not sure that my email is anywhere to be found on here... so if you will PM me, I will send it to you.

Jeff