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Star Ceilings... Painted or Fiber optics? - Page 17

post #481 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hi Tom... Good to see you on here again. Did I not put a shooting star in for you? I'd sure be happy to do one for you if you want. Or, I can tell you how to do one. It's possible that I'll be out near you fairly soon... and if I am, I'd be happy to do it for you.

Seen any bears around your place lately?

Thanks for saying hi... and for jumping in to answer questions from time to time when others have them. Say hi to your wife for me, please.

Jeff



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post


Hi Jeff,

Cool looking picture---looks like you've done another great job!

You know, the view in the photo reminds me very much of your work on the northern end of our HT ceiling (except without the shooting star). I'm sure Azula will enjoy it for many years.
post #482 of 764
Thread Starter 
Just want to reiterate that if you have a dark ceiling color, whether you have someone paint a star mural or paint it yourself, you can expect to see some stars in the light (I have to see how fiber optics look in the light and if all those little holes show up too).

Usually, it will be the constellation stars and many people think that the constellations against a dark sky looks natural.

I will post pictures of stars on different colored ceilings when I get back home (Been painting around the country for two weeks) and I'll get them posted here.

I'll also mention that "texture", even a light texture, is better than a smooth surface for hiding the painted stars (and I would think the fiber optic holes too) in the light.
post #483 of 764
Most installations with fiber optics the fiber goes through fabric so the holes are not visible. In my theater with black ceiling when the stars are turned off you cannot see the fibers. With enough light in the room you could probably see them but my ceiling looks like a black ceiling when it is turned off.
post #484 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hi Stockmonkey...

Thanks for the info. That is good information for this discussion. I really appreciate your input. Now, what if fabric is not used... would it still be as invisible? I am thinking that the fiber optics would still be a little more invisible than the painted stars.

If there is even a small amount of texture on the ceiling, the paint is hidden somewhat, and the paint that is visible looks like the constellations. That's good for some, and not for others.

Again, thanks for the info!!!

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Most installations with fiber optics the fiber goes through fabric so the holes are not visible. In my theater with black ceiling when the stars are turned off you cannot see the fibers. With enough light in the room you could probably see them but my ceiling looks like a black ceiling when it is turned off.
post #485 of 764
Thread Starter 
Here's a picture of a theater room with a Night Sky Mural in it that I painted a while ago. Now, whether you have someone paint a mural for you, get fiber optics, or deide to
post #486 of 764
Thread Starter 
NightSkyMurals"]Here's a picture of a theater room with a Night Sky Mural in it that I painted a while ago. Now, whether you have someone paint a mural for you, get fiber optics, or decide to do a mural yourself... you really ought to consider having a star ceiling put up there somehow. It will turn your theater room into a great room to relax in. These ceilings are such a great match for a theater room.


Attachment 245648
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post #487 of 764
Thread Starter 
Sorry for this half written posting. He iPad is a little sensitive! :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Here's a picture of a theater room with a Night Sky Mural in it that I painted a while ago. Now, whether you have someone paint a mural for you, get fiber optics, or deide to
post #488 of 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

NightSkyMurals"]Here's a picture of a theater room with a Night Sky Mural in it that I painted a while ago. Now, whether you have someone paint a mural for you, get fiber optics, or decide to do a mural yourself...you really ought to consider having a star ceiling put up there somehow. It will turn your theater room into a great room to relax in. These ceilings are such a great match for a theater room.


Attachment 245648


Hi Jeff,

I think your comments above are right on the mark.
post #489 of 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Hi Stockmonkey...

Thanks for the info. That is good information for this discussion. I really appreciate your input. Now, what if fabric is not used... would it still be as invisible? I am thinking that the fiber optics would still be a little more invisible than the painted stars.

If there is even a small amount of texture on the ceiling, the paint is hidden somewhat, and the paint that is visible looks like the constellations. That's good for some, and not for others.

Again, thanks for the info!!!

Jeff

I have not seen a fiber ceiling that is only painted but my understanding is that they can be just as hidden. Some people even paint right over the fibers then trim the fibers again exposing the tip.
post #490 of 764
Thread Starter 
OK, that makes sense. That seems like a lot of work to paint over them and then snip each one again, but if someone were to go to that trouble, I think that it would be the way to go. And, I would think it would be less visible than my paint.

Now, I just came up with a paint that is even harder to detect in the light, but still... on a dark background, in the light, you are going to see some of my paint. Usually the constellation stars. Hopefully, with the new paint, not as many, but still....

Jeff

Thanks again Stockmonkey2000



Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I have not seen a fiber ceiling that is only painted but my understanding is that they can be just as hidden. Some people even paint right over the fibers then trim the fibers again exposing the tip.
post #491 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hey... there may be hope for LED lights to charge up the glow paint. I've been buying LED lights whenever I think one might work... and I just got a blacklight, flashlight today (yesterday) that worked out great. I am going to see what other options the lights can come in that might work for putting around the room. But, I know that many of you have been wondering... so I wanted to pass that along.

Jeff
post #492 of 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Hey... there may be hope for LED lights to charge up the glow paint. I've been buying LED lights whenever I think one might work... and I just got a blacklight, flashlight today (yesterday) that worked out great. I am going to see what other options the lights can come in that might work for putting around the room. But, I know that many of you have been wondering... so I wanted to pass that along.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

That sounds really interesting...perhaps even promising.

However, would I be correct to guess that LED lighting with sufficient capacity to charge an average-sized mural would be significantly more expensive than the conventional black light option, at least for the time being?
post #493 of 764
Hi again Jeff,

Just sent you an AVS Private Message.


Tom
post #494 of 764
Thread Starter 
Tom, maybe I am confusing lights here. You know those little lights that are in every flashlight, pretty much these days, that replace the old bulb with something like 5 to 10 tiny bulbs? Those are the ones that I am talking about.

I couldn't believe it when I got the package. I opened the flashlight that had 9 bulbs in it (that looked just like my other similar flashlights) but these were supposed to be black lights. Again, they looked like the regular bulbs in my other flashlights until I turned it on. It was just like a small version of the black light I haul around the country when painting.

Then I thought... OK, the color's right but it'll probably work like those incandescent black lights (the ones with the cover over an incandescent bulb) that do absolutely nothing. So, I grabbed a jar of paint and put the black light up to it... and the paint glowed bright. Next I took it into the room I use to paint samples and experiment in.... and shined it on the paint that's on the ceiling and walls. All started glowing.

I got excited at the possibilities. I just ordered a few more lights... this time with 21 lights and one with 51 lights. I want to see how they work. My concern is that the light wave is approaching the range that isn't good for eyes, but still think that it's OK (I'll let you know if I start losing my sight) or if my research indicates it isn't good.

Anyway, I will look into those LED panels that have like hundreds of those little lights in them. Those should be powerful enough to work, and they should be less expensive, not heat up and should last a long time. I'll buy one if I can find one with the right light being emitted, try it out and then let everyone know.

Also, if that works, I will look into possibly having some light strips made to put up into soffits or other places.

So, to finally answer your question... I don't think they'll cost more. :-)

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Hi Jeff,

That sounds really interesting...perhaps even promising.

However, would I be correct to guess that LED lighting with sufficient capacity to charge an average-sized mural would be significantly more expensive than the conventional black light option, at least for the time being?
post #495 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hi Jamiyhaley...

Thank you. I hope that you have found some good information in this thread. I know that there are a lot of people on this forum who have shared a lot of information in this thread too. So, hopefully we can all help each other out.

If you have any questions that come to mind... please ask them. Others may have the same questions you do, or might at some point down the road.

Good luck if you decide to do one...

Jeff



Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiyhaley View Post

Home plays vital role in every person's life. Hi jeff you share such great information about star ceilings. Its very useful ides to me in make my new home design. This type of star ceiling look too good and attractive.
post #496 of 764
Maybe someone could demo this stuff. Black Rope Light
post #497 of 764
Thread Starter 
I've already contacted the manufacturer to see what products they have and if they can make something for me. There is also a local company who I am planning on talking with (hopefully this week).

I can't wait to see how the 21 bulb, and 51 bulb lights work out. The 9 light light charges the paint 4 or 5 feet away, so there are possibilities. Maybe they'll even have lights that emit no visible light, yet will charge, and even cause the paint to fluoresce. Checking when I have the time.

BTW... xzener... I was just out in Cali (SF to LA) and will be back out again (in the LA area) soon. But those temps out there are killing me! :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post

Maybe someone could demo this stuff. Black Rope Light
post #498 of 764
Hi Nightsky,
Really impressive work and great help for some people around here.
I'm from Belgium and I'm having my HT build at this moment.
My first idea was to go with a fiber star ceiling until I came onto this topic.
Now I think I would like to go with a combination of fiber and paint.

The thing is that I really would like to have a nightsky even when the lights are on (dimmed), because when you are going to watch a movie. As soon as you turn off the lights and you start the movie, you can't enjoy the stars right ?
Because you really can't see much of the stars when the lights are on and the stars are also dimmed when the projector is on.
So you can only enjoy it to the fullest when it's pitch black without playing a movie.

What about regular white paint or combination of regular white paint and glow in the dark paint ?
So when people are entering the room in a lighted environment, you can see the white painted stars and as you turn off the lights, you still can see some glow in the dark stars ?

I'm having a rockwool acoustic tiled ceiling.
What about the ceiling construction frame ? Do you paint over it ?
I'm a bit afraid the frame will take away the effect.

Any plans about going to europe ? Belgium maybe ? hehe ?
post #499 of 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

I was just out in Cali (SF to LA) and will be back out again (in the LA area) soon. But those temps out there are killing me! :-)

Hey Jeff,

The weather has been very cool here so far. Only in the 90s a couple of days this year. Drop me an email when your closer to me... I could use a ribeye in your honor. Have a new BBQ appetizer... Bacon Wrapped Jumbo Shrimp!! So good!

Xzener

Oh, by the way. I just was asked to have my theater room featured on a web site June 1st. I will post a link soon after... I name dropped you a couple times.
post #500 of 764
So I understand the difference in price between the "pre-made" panels from FOSI and a true DIY from FOSI is about 3x the cost.

So, saying one got the premade panel. Is that panel the last layer that goes on the ceiling? I ask because it seems that it is offset from the ceiling to allow for the gap for the fibers to be on the other side of it. So if you have the panel, then a gap, then a drywall layer, or even a DD+GG layer, and then insulation in the ceiling, doesnt the gap create a triple leaf effect?

Or would one put the last layer of drywall after putting the panel on? But that would mean pulling all those fibers through the drywall. What is the correct way to install these while keeping room soundproofing in mind?
post #501 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hi Beatbrother...


Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbrother_bw View Post

I'm from Belgium and I'm having my HT build at this moment.
My first idea was to go with a fiber star ceiling until I came onto this topic.
Now I think I would like to go with a combination of fiber and paint.

I think that it would be a nice combination. There will definitely be times when the fiber optic stars will be better than the painted mural... like if you want to see stars shining when there is light in the room.

And, there will be times, when the room is dark, that you would get a much more realistic night sky scene with the painted mural. So, why not go for both if you can?


Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbrother_bw View Post

The thing is that I really would like to have a nightsky even when the lights are on (dimmed), because when you are going to watch a movie. As soon as you turn off the lights and you start the movie, you can't enjoy the stars right ?
Because you really can't see much of the stars when the lights are on and the stars are also dimmed when the projector is on.
So you can only enjoy it to the fullest when it's pitch black without playing a movie.

Yes and no. If you have a good sized soffit running around the room, including above the screen (that would block some of the light bouncing off of the screen and up to the ceiling)... and if the paint has a good charge to it... then you could actually see the painted stars for most of the movie. Now, it won't be all of the stars, like you would see if the room were totally black, but it would be more like you were at a drive-in movie and were to look up. You wold see stars, but not like you do when you go camping.

You could also turn on a black light while the movie is playing. My Home Theater paint is made to fluoresce under a black light.... just for home theater situations. But, then you have the black light on in the room and the room isn't dark. So, yes you could see the stars for the entire movie with the black lights on, but is it what you want to do. And, yes, with the right soffit design and a good charge for the paint... you could see a good amount of stars for the duration of the movie.

But, you were correct in stating that the best effect for the mural is to have a pitch black room. No questions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbrother_bw View Post

What about regular white paint or combination of regular white paint and glow in the dark paint ?
So when people are entering the room in a lighted environment, you can see the white painted stars and as you turn off the lights, you still can see some glow in the dark stars ?

That is possible. But I would probably suggest painting the constellation stars with the white paint first, then painting on top of that with the glow paint. You want the glow paint to not have any colored paint on top of it to block any light hitting it. After the constellation stars, I would suggest painting another hundred, or so, smaller stars and also painting smaller stars on those. Then, I would just paint the night sky as normal and if any of the smaller stars (painted only with glow paint) showed up, it would look like it was supposed to be there. Does that make sense?

If I were to paint a night sky mural first in paint and then with glow paint on top of the white paint... it would take me months because of how I paint. A typical home theater mural that I paint has probably 6,000 to 10,000 stars in it, and to do every star twice would not be worth it. But, by doing in the way I suggested above, you could probably come out with a nice dual mural.



Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbrother_bw;22019756[I View Post

]I'm having a rockwool acoustic tiled ceiling.
What about the ceiling construction frame ? Do you paint over it ?
I'm a bit afraid the frame will take away the effect.
[/i]

No, don't paint the frames. Leave those alone. That will just add to the 3D effect of the mural. It will look like you are looking through small windows. It will look nice if you leave the frames, but you will have to be sure to add enough stars that the frames are visible as a silhouette. Trust me on that one. ;-)



Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbrother_bw View Post

Any plans about going to europe ? Belgium maybe ? hehe ?

Have passport, will travel. I go to Canada and have plans to go to Australia, the Cayman, Islands... and possibly Dubai. Why not Belgium? Send the plane ticket and I'm on my way. :-)

I can always try and help you do a DIY project or help you find a decent painter over there. But, you really need to be careful who you have do one of these murals. It's almost better to DIY than have some painters come in. Let me know how I can help.
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post #502 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hey xzener...


Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post

Hey Jeff,

The weather has been very cool here so far. Only in the 90s a couple of days this year. Drop me an email when your closer to me... I could use a ribeye in your honor. Have a new BBQ appetizer... Bacon Wrapped Jumbo Shrimp!! So good!


My Missouri and Texas jobs are being delayed because of construction delays... so I am just going to head to California next week. I need to do a few things to my new website first (that should be live tomorrow- fingers crossed) but then I am planning on heading back out there. I am thinking about driving again, but it looks like I will be in the LA area. However, if my memory serves me well... those Ribeyes, potatoes and other plates were so good that another 4 hours might be worth it. :-) Need more stars on your ceiling? :-)

"Bacon wrapped shrimp? You're such a tease. Let me see where I will be. I may have a mural to paint in Bakersfield or Fresno... and if I do, then I'll let you fire up the grill. (Dang, my mouth is watering right now!!!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post

Oh, by the way. I just was asked to have my theater room featured on a web site June 1st. I will post a link soon after... I name dropped you a couple times.

Very cool!!! What site (or can you say?) That;s awesome! It's always fun when you get noticed for having something nice. And, you've done a good job with the space you had. And, from what you've said... you've done a little more since I was there. so, it would be fun to see it again.

When the article comes out, I can add it to my new web site if you want too. I still need to figure out how I'm going to work everything, but at least with this site... I will be able to manage a lot more of it without a web designer. I would love to add your theater to the site if you'd allow it.

Ribeyes... think rib eyes... (and bacon wrapped JUMBO shrimp). BTW... isn't that a contradiction in terms (Jumbo Shrimp)?

Hope I can make it up that way. I may have a kid or two with me. Since I'll be close to Disneyland....
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post #503 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hi hifiaudio2...

Hopefully someone on this thread can answer you with certainty. Since I only do the painted murals... this will just be a guess. I am thinking that you would want the FOSI panels to go on last, with a possible gap to allow for the fibers. Again, that's just a guess.

There is another thread that was started for star ceilings that seems to be turning into a thread about fiber optics. You might be able to get a better answer there if nobody can answer it here. Here is a link to the thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1397812

Good luck... Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

So I understand the difference in price between the "pre-made" panels from FOSI and a true DIY from FOSI is about 3x the cost.

Is that panel the last layer that goes on the ceiling? I ask because it seems that it is offset from the ceiling to allow for the gap for the fibers to be on the other side of it. So if you have the panel, then a gap, then a drywall layer, or even a DD+GG layer, and then insulation in the ceiling, doesnt the gap create a triple leaf effect?

Or would one put the last layer of drywall after putting the panel on? But that would mean pulling all those fibers through the drywall. What is the correct way to install these while keeping room soundproofing in mind?
post #504 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hey Xzener.... Tell us, or email me about your theater room being featured in that magazine. That's exciting!! Is it about something in particular? Very cool. I'm excited for you. It's always fun to have something you've done get recognized.tell me about it.

I'd like to put a link on my website, if thats Ok?

Tell us a little about wheat it

Congrats avail

Jef
post #505 of 764
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone.... I just wanted to share something with you guys who follow this thread. If you've been following this thread long enough, you will have become familiar with a few members of AVS who have been nice enough to jump in and answer some of the questions that many of you have posted. One of them is Xzener. I added a few extra stars to a DIY project that he did and he's been nice enough to help out in answering questions since then. He also tried to teach me to do clouds on the ceiling (which I never really got the hang of - that takes art skill to do) :-)

Anyway, his room was just featured in a Home Theater blog and I thought that I would mention it here for those who don't follow him. AVS is mentioned in the blog, which I am sure will get a few added clicks into the forum.

So, I hope everyone will wish Jason (aka, xzener) a nice congratulations on the nice work that he did in his theater room (not to mention his BBQ'ing skills) and for getting his room featured. Nice going Jason! Here's the link to the article...
http://www.insanehtpc.com/2012/06/01...-home-theater/

Jeff
Night Sky Murals
post #506 of 764
I have a flat black ceiling...Will the glow paint show up on such a dark base color? Thanks...AAl
post #507 of 764
Thread Starter 
The short answer is yes, you probably will see some of the stars. Here is a short video where I answer this question. Hope it helps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7f4Q...e_gdata_player

Jeff Stewart
Night Sky Murals


Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_ct View Post

I have a flat black ceiling...Will the glow paint show up on such a dark base color? Thanks...AAl
post #508 of 764
Thanks Jeff! In the dark will the stars glow as good on a black ceiling as opposed to a white ceiling? I do have a fairly textured ceiling too...Thanks...Al
post #509 of 764
Thread Starter 
That's a great question... and one that would be great for a video too. From what I have seen and from comments that I have heard from customers, there isn't much of a difference. Some will say that the lighter color of the ceiling will reflect the light better (makes sense), but to be honest, I haven't seen much difference. But, I will do a test and try to get that question answered very soon. But for now.... It isn't a huge inference, if at all.

Jeff
Night Sky Murals


Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_ct View Post

Thanks Jeff! In the dark will the stars glow as good on a black ceiling as opposed to a white ceiling? I do have a fairly textured ceiling too...Thanks...Al
post #510 of 764
Super! Thats what I was looking for...I was thinking the contrast against the black vs. the white would hopefully make it a wash or close to it...Thanks again! Al
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