New Onkyo TX-NR5008 & TX-NR3008 - Page 113

here's a copy of an Email that I sent to Emotiva about getting more headroom from my 5008 .................................
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From: Michael
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:29 PM
To: sales@emotiva.com
Subject: UPA-7 question on headroom;
I Pre-ordered a UPA-7 I’m using a TX-NR 5008 Onkyo AVR(it’s brand new) I’m going to be running a 9.2 system of Kilpsch Hertiage speakers modded with better drivers (Crites) 4 cornwalls & 5 Crites CS1.5’s ( Cs-1.5 is a modded Hersey but a 2 way) the 5008 sounds great in 7.2 over what I had before (TX-NR807 in 7.2) but I get just alittle less volume but the 5008 is clearer in sound running 7 speakers . haven’t yet put the extra 2 CS-1.5 on yet soo I do have a good A/B comparison between the two AVR’s . I do know that most AVR’s are dropped down in per channel wattage the more speakers on the AVR I’ve read the 5008 drops to 75 watts @ 7 channels driven

5008 is rated @ 145 watts @ 2 channel

807 is rated @ 130 watts @ 2 channel

what I’m looking for is more headroom in the soundstage(clarity,detail,depth) I got a little better of each of those with new 5008 but I want to take it further ;the reason I feel I need the UPA-7
looking @ running 7 channels off the UPA-7 & 2 channels off the 5008 when I go 9 channels

now does going with this set-up gonna add the headroom I need /looking for ?

the Audyseey has set to crossovers on the Cornwalls @ 40 soo they are sucking some watts there . sounds great having the Cornnies having a low direct impact .
the subs are self powered SVS PC12-NSD’s

thanx Michael

And the Reply
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Hello Michael that is correct most AVR’s as you load them up with more channels their output drops appreciably. Our power amplifiers stave off that loss due their high current swing and high voltage Swing. Even the 5008 cannot compare with even my smallest 2 channel amplifier in current/voltage swing. Our UPA-7 could be just the right solution to give your 5008 a fighting chance to deliver its best.

Thank You; Vincent Chen

Sales Manager

Emotiva Audio

135 Southeast Parkway Court

Franklin, TN 37064

615 790 6754

Let us know if it happens again. I have mine hooked up to a 50 foot hdmi cable and so far so good, but thats only one day in so far. Yours took a week or so. Will let you know if it happens to me.

Yes, plug in the USB stick, then press NET/USB until the required input (rear or front) appears, select the file (.mp3, .wav or .flac), press Pure Audio on the front of the Onkyo.

Another thing ...Peoples court on channel 702 is in 4:3 just like channel 2 which is also 4:3 as I type this . It all depends upon how the station is sending it out.


Wide Mode = Full ....Doesn't stretch enything to 16:9..I just tested it. Full is for 16:9 not stretch or zoom or anything else.They have their own settings.

Now...some programs are in 16:9 that should be in 4:3 because the stations are sending it out in 16:9 over the air..it's not the AVR doing it. Full isn't messing with your natural 16:9 content or your 4:3 content.Again..it's the stations messing with 4:3 480i content.

No need to change it to 4:3 for 4:3 content which will compress 16:9 content..

Got it ?

So if you want to watch 4:3 in 4:3 with black bars on the sides or 16:9 in a 4:3 box with black bars on all sides (Because some stations are sending 4:3 out as 16:9) go to their twin channel where everything is still converted to 1080p by the AVR.

Full isn't compressing any real 16:9 because full mode is 16.9 naturally.


Geezz now I'm dizzy

the local fox station is like that i get the SD box during the day & @ night ,lunch,news certain programming i get full screen 1080p
i'd much rather not have anything stretched,zoomed if it's a crap vid then it is what it is !
but with my settings the AVR does up-process to 1080p as all most all D*TV is 1080I & I get it as 1080P

Really? You managed to get that to work? Huh... so much to learn about this behemoth.

I tried all the possible configurations I could and had the same problem as SteVeO.

When I set output to 1080p, setting Wide Mode to Full works fine for native 16:9 sources (1080i or 720p), but if I switch to a 480i channel, it stretches the 4:3 picture horizontally to fill the 16:9 wide HDTV.

The only way to get a channel that is broadcasting in 480i to show up in its native 4:3 aspect ratio is to switch the Wide Mode to 4:3, but if I do that and switch to a HD 1080i channel, it squishes the picture horizontally to fit into a 4:3 box.

As I said, I tried all the combinations I could think of and couldn't get the receiver to just upconvert to 1080p but leave the damn aspect ratio alone. I eventually ended up setting output to 'Through' (which sucks because I wanted to use the Reon processor for cable).


Max

The remote has music modes, push receiver, then just cycle through until you see stereo. That should give you your 2.2 music. Or you can go to movie and select direct.

Be sure to read my other post 3364.... Just watch it on the 480i channel..it will be converted to 1080p but will keep it's
aspect radio that the station sent it out on.


Here..


If a station sends out 4:3 content as 16:9 it will be stretched on the HD channel as 16:9 But it's not the AVR doing it on the HD station.That's how it's coming into the AVR (Full Mode) which is a 16:9 format so it will fill out the screen.

On the SD channel it will still be 16:9 but in a 4:3box with out being stretched to the entire full screen.

If a station sends out a 4:3 it will be 4:3 on the HD channel and 4:3 on the SD channel but both will be upconverted to 1080p .

Reon FTW !

: D

Yep I moved a 40' Samsung and hooked up 6' HDMI, picture perfect. I then hooked up a 50' high end cable (new demo) and it also worked perfect, tried my old 50' and again picture perfect. Not the Onkyo 3008 with the Samsung, Onkyo and Panasonic 65VT25 probably have issues. I have contacted Panasonic Support for their input. Onkyo support said it was the cable.

Hurk

What TV are you using, my Pany 65VT25 might be the problem. I hooked up to a 40" Samsung with 50' cable and picture perfect. Awaiting for response from Pany Support.

Hurk

You have to put the onkyo into the mix when hooking up a tv with a shorter cable in order to rule out the onkyo .

If it works (with shorter cable run )then we know it's not the onkyo it's the long hdmi cable.

Is there anyway to bring the exact set up you have where it dosn't work so you can try a shorter cable.

Just switch out the long cable for a shorter cable using the Onkyo and Panasonic 65VT25.

You have to remember the new stuff (Onkyo and Panasonic 65VT25) are more sensitive to HDMI cables than your old tv etc which will work with the older HDMI cables..

You need to get a Mediabridge Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable With Ethernet - Category 2 Certified - Supports 3D & Audio Return Channel like the one I posted if you can't hook your exact set -up with a shorter cable.

Trying it with older tv's is not going to help you narrow it down.You have to use the stuff you are having problems with.

So even after the reset your pany and onkyo still don't like your 50' cable or the new high end one you got? Did you try a short hdmi to test like someone else suggested?

Mine is an old Sony LCD. 6 years at least.

Ok, I loaded 'PHD' off of The Crystal Method's 'Tweekend' album onto a USB stick.
Then played it on 'Pure Audio' the 3008. THe 3008 reported 'MP3 192kbps 16bit/44.1khz' which is correct.
This is actually the first time I have sat down in the best seat and listened to an entire song thru my 3008, I got it to 5db, that was about as loud as I could stand, I turned it down to 17db or so after the first few minutes.
Anyhow, I sat thru the entire song which is 6min 34seconds long
I am happy to report, no snaps, pops or anything out of the ordinary and the 3008 sounded fantastic.

Edit: Though the bass was lacking, I will have to go in and tweak the subwoofer settings, wether you know it or not 'The Crystal Method' usually is not shy with the bass.

Blue Rain
Good suggestion however lot of work to move Onkyo, however I did. Used a
6' HDMI cable, no change. I hooked up my BD Player (Pany BD350 & HD DVD plaer), when I changed sources I had the snow screan each time as per the
50'. So I believe I can say it is not the cables, either the Onkyo or the Panasonic, however the Onkyo worked on the Samsung which is not that old 2yrs.

Either the panny or onk is not get the EDID right & it's not handshaking with each other ..
up-date the firmware on both if U haven't already ... but it sounds like it's the Panny not playin' nice !

I would definitely agree that the bass is a bit lacking while in Direct/Pure Audio. I found that if you go into the Audio Adjustment menu and turn the subwoofer on that it definitely helps the low end compared to just the two fronts. This is of course if you didn't already have it on and will only work with an analog source, which I think any source from NET/USB would be considered (have only tested with Pandora, not USB or Server).

The problem with the pops, as I have experienced them, is somewhat intermittent. One day it consistently had the problem--the next day as well. The following day, after an hour of listening, I heard no problems, with the settings unchanged, always in Dolby PLII Music mode while listening to a connected iPod, at the same volume (near 70). Perhaps it could be a cable issue, but I think I began to notice this while streaming, but can't remember exactly haven't tested for that since. So I would not be inclined to rule out a problem from merely a clean preview of one song--as I had the AVR for a month before noticing this problem.

It is also a little easier to notice, though it can occur in any case, when listening to quiet music, like something with vocals without a strong beat.

I'm outside the return window, so hopefully the problem can be identified and resolved with a firmware update.

Once I do hear the problem again, the next step is to alternate inputs between PC and USB to see if the problem occurs with both or only USB.

This issue aside, everything really sounds amazing after calibration, so I don't want to sound too negative on the product.

It would be interesting to record the sound, perhaps from the speakers, or even better by channeling the output to a recording device to see if that picks up the noise. Without that kind of hard evidence, it may be difficult to get tech support's attention on the issue.

To ask a different question, if you are listening to a typical stereo music file, what is the difference between listening in stereo, direct, and pure audio modes?

Someone else was also having the "snow" issue with their VT25 Panasonic. My guess is it's the Panasonic, but looks like you found that out.

From an earlier post.

Speaker detect error
Left Error.................................Right Error
surround left---.........................Surround right---
Front wide left no......................Front wide right no
Front high left no.......................Front high right no
Surround back left ---................Surround back right yes
Center yes...............................Subwoofer 1 ---

Just have 5.1 audyssey tests front left, front right, center, and back right, then quits and gives me the read out above. It never tries to test the rear left or sub.

What is my issue?

Quick guess - check the polarity on your speaker cables - terminals may be reversed.

Speaker detect error
Left Error.................................Right Error
surround left yes.........................Surround right yes
Front wide left no......................Front wide right no
Front high left no.......................Front high right no
Surround back left no................Surround back right no
Center yes...............................Subwoofer 1 ---

Making progress, had the surrounds plugged into the rear surround spots.

It completes it now but still has a problem with the fronts. They are not out of phase... what doesn't it like about my fronts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurk
Blue Rain
Good suggestion however lot of work to move Onkyo, however I did. Used a
6' HDMI cable, no change. I hooked up my BD Player (Pany BD350 & HD DVD plaer), when I changed sources I had the snow screan each time as per the
50'. So I believe I can say it is not the cables, either the Onkyo or the Panasonic, however the Onkyo worked on the Samsung which is not that old 2yrs.


I got a response from Panasonic as follows:

"Thanks for getting back to us. If the set is working without using your Receiver as a switcher then this means that the issue is not with the TV, as you have determined below. Yes, please contact Onkyo directly to see if they have any firmware for their Receiver that may be required. Let them know that the HDMI Input version on your set is 1.4a so both the cable and output on the Receiver must be compatible with this version."

Viera Concierge Support Team
Panasonic Canada Inc.

Hurk to Panasonic

"Thanks for your reply. Direct to TV from source the picture is fine. I connected another TV a Plasma Samsung to the Onkyo with the 50' cable and all sources worked perfect through the Onkyo, why not the Panasonic. It seems that the Panasonic is the issue as it works fine with the Samsung??? I thought it was common that Onkyo and Panasonic have connection issues, is this not correct. If this is the case, is it the Onkyo or Panasonic problem. I will contact Onkyo for their input. Very frustrating purchasing both top of the line products and having these issues."

Firmware Update: All is uptodate. I'm at a total loss. I know there have been other posts regarding the very same issue, I will search and reveiw his results. I will speak with Onkyo tomorrow and see if there is a fix. I'm sure there are other Onk Pany combos that are working just fine.

Hurk

Hurt, BJC is from Seattle and a sponsor of this forum and Kurt (owner, I think) comments on this forum in the hdmi threads, here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=168

I think you might need to visit that area as well, although I "suppose" one of your components "could" be defective. But in my research, on all things home theater, this past year I have learned that hdmi is very finicky and tricky when getting components to work well with each other. Does the Panny have any firmware updates / have you checked its thread for similar situations? IDK, I would maybe ask the opinion of Kurt over at BJC or start a thread over in the hdmi section. Good luck!

Hey guys feel free to leave any comments over at a thread I started on slickdeals, here:http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthr...7581&t=2636629

Wow! Astute observations here. Very good to know. This really sounds like a software buffering issue when feeding the DAC. When the software glitches, the DAC doesn't have any digital data to decode (the static) and the software is struggling to find it's position in the track.


I have also ruled out network access, although it's how I first found out about the issue (playing Pandora). Any USB access causes the same issue.

While you might be pleased with the receiver even with it's faults, I feel that I am loosing out on a primary function of the receiver. I desire to listen to music from Pandora/USB and with my 808 this was 70% of it's usage. It's unreasonable that this could slip by as USB/iPod/Pandora is a highly touted feature of the Onkyo receivers.


Thank you for the report, it sounds like many people have this issue.



In other news; I got to thinking about the 'quiet passages' of music and how to test for this problem. I have generated a blank audio flac file that reproduces the problem with my 3008.

http://jink.us/avsforum/BLANK_AUDIO_TEST.flac (6MB, 2min 30sec)

When the volume is at listening level (70% or so) I can hear the pops/clicks even with this blank file!


Will you try this file out on a USB thumb drive or disk and let me know if you hear the pops/clicks as well?

Really? That's incredible. I wonder if this really is a hardware issue with the DACs?!


Yes, put a song on a USB stick, plug it in and play it. The Onkyo plays many formats (including FLAC). I have a test file you can use:

http://jink.us/avsforum/BLANK_AUDIO_TEST.flac (6MB, 2min 30sec)

Be sure to have the volume up to normal listening volumes. I assure you the music file doesn't have anything other than silence (and it triggers the issue on my 3008).


Another user that can't reproduce it... Do you mind trying the blank file I have above? I hope to rule out hardware/software bug.



I also had trouble reproducing the problem tonight until the stereo was up to temp by jamming to some Muse. The sound was clean until about 5-10 minutes of listening. Then the pops came. Usually the static arrives 30+ minutes later.

That is a good thought to test PC and USB, I didn't think of the PC input.

I can easily record the popping it does; playing my silent file I linked above.

I am not outside my return window and am getting ready to ship this 3008 off!

Hey guys, I've been watching this thread since I got my 3008 about a week ago. I too am getting the tick noise listening to music on Pandora, and streaming files from my PC. Only in Pure Direct, and Direct as has been already stated. I called Onkyo a couple days ago, but the woman wanted me to switch the fronts to the center, and then reset so I hung up... I'm hoping a simple firmware update will solve the problem.

One issue I am having is something I haven't seen discussed yet. I have quite a few game consoles hooked up to my TV and almost all of them use S-Video. The S-video scaling was actually a big reason why I got this receiver... Something isn't quite right though...
I tested everything I have and got this
3DO- Works Fine
Gamecube- Works Fine
PS1- Start up Screens Work- Actual Game Doesn't
N64- Doesn't Work
SVHS- Works with TBC on, otherwise doesn't
Saturn- Doesn't Work
PS2- Works Fine
SNES- Doesn't Work

What I mean by doesn't work is that the sound is coming through, but for video all i get is a rolling screen with pink snow, although I can faintly see what I should be seeing... Any suggestions, or is anyone else seeing this? Do I have a bad unit? It sucks because I really like this unit otherwise!

Add me to the list of people here who have contacted Onkyo about the NET/USB Pure Audio/Direct ticking noise. I sent them a message through their web site a while ago. I also mentioned that several people here in the forum have also been experiencing this issue and some more severe issues with NET/USB.