New Onkyo TX-NR5008 & TX-NR3008 - Page 250

CBdicX - you don't really seem interested in learning anything - you just keep on repeating your earlier posts in different words. Did you not read my replies to you, where I explained how the room negatively affects the sound? Have you any questions or comments on what I said about modes and reflections?


No, it isn't. There IS only one correct sound - it is the sound that the recording engineer put on the disc in the first place. The object of an in-home sound reproduction system is to get as close to the original sound that was recorded as you possibly can. If you don't then you are not hearing what the creators of the disc intended you to hear and you are not getting what you paid for when you bought the disc.

Of course, you may prefer boomy, lumpy bass and comb-filtered treble just as perhaps some people prefer cold, greasy food instead of a top quality meal cooked by a good chef. However, many of the people on these forums are here to learn how to improve their sound quality by seeking answers from those with more experience. If you are not interested in learning, then that is fine and if you tell me I will stop replying to you. But there is no need to keep on saying the same thing over and over as we heard you the first time. IOW, let's try to advance the discussion or give up on it.


There is a reason for that. If you go to the Official Audyssey Thread you will find over 47,000 posts and contributions from some of the most respected and knowledgeable people in the world of acoustics. There are professional sound engineers, people with two decades experience working for Dolby Labs, professional reviewers and so on. Over those 47,000 posts, some common themes emerge. One of these is that it is not at all uncommon for people reporting bad sound after running Audyssey to have not used the proper procedure. Usually, after it has been explained to them, they run Audyssey again and then report substantial improvements. It is also true that the experienced professionals and the knowledgeable amateurs there have consistently found that Audyssey, especially XT32, does make a substantial, easily heard improvement in the quality of their sound.


What do you mean by making it "sound wrong". The "right" sound is the one that gets as close as possible to what the recording engineer heard when he made the disc. Either you get that sound or you don't. It will certainly "sound wrong" if you have a 10dB room-induced boost at 70Hz. Or a 5dB null at 400Hz. Or comb filtering caused by untamed first reflections. And so on. Audyssey can correct for all of those things, as can room treatments, but if you have made no attempt to correct for them, then they will impact negatively on the sound by distorting it from the original intention. What's worse, if you have a 10dB boost at 70Hz, it will also affect the way you hear all the frequencies above 70Hz as well, making your sound poor all over.


You don't have to rely on your ears alone, and with respect, I doubt if your hearing is trained to recognise differences in sound and what causes them. Can you identify comb filtering when you hear it? Comb filtering is what happens when you have reflections in your room and the sound 'meets itself' on the way back, causing a form of distortion called comb filtering. If you have not treated the reflections in your room, then you will probably have this negative issue affecting your overall sound quality.

It is just not a credible position for you to assert that the room does not matter and that you can somehow ignore all the problems the room causes and creates. It is similar to you saying that if you rip the tweeter out of your left speaker you prefer the sound that way. Well, you might, but it doesn't mean the sound is meant to be heard that way or that it is "right".

If you want to have a serious discussion, and to learn how to make really big improvements to the sound you are currently getting, then please respond in a positive way and there are many people here who will help you. Your current tone seems to indicate that you are totally incurious to learn how to get better sound out of your system but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Please don't reply just by repeating your earlier posts again - I have read them and know what they say.

Of course you will! Just as you will if you move your head a bit to the left or right while listening! If you move your head by as little as 3cm you are dramatically changing the frequency response and phase characteristics of your room. So it is no surprise that if you move the Audyssey mic by a similar amount that you get a different response each time. In fact, the surprise would be if you didn't!


Do you not realise that that is exactly how it is supposed to be? The sound in your room IS DIFFERENT with the blinds open and with them closed. It's the same if you move the furniture or add new furnishings or cover a hard floor with a carpet. All these things will affect the frequency response of the room and therefore you would also expect Audyssey to know that when it does a calibration and to compensate for it. You seem to be saying that you think this is some sort of *fault* with Audyssey!

Exactly what i mean with Audyssey, if the cat sits in the right corner of the room and you do the setup and it moves the next time to the left you get a different result, nice, but then the sound (calibration) is wrong, someting changed inside the room.....
And then again, what will be the corect sound.
There are far to many variables in a standard living room to do a corect calibration and be dun with it, things move, walk, sit or do different things then during the setup.
In a lab like room with fixed items and no changes Audyssey will, or can work, but thats not the room we live in, things change to often.

I maybe telling the same story but the Audyssey camp is also, over and over again but then in favorite of Audyssey.

And thx for your info, i do read what you telling me but i see this not working for me, i tried from the TX 876, NR3007, NR708, NR3008 and now Integra 70.2, many times with and without Audyssey, but i stay without.

Just because you are unable to hear a benefit, doesn't mean that there isn't one - as I have been saying and Keith has explained in much better detail than I can be bothered to. It seems that your mind is closed to reality, so I see no point in carrying on the discussion.

Indeed, but thats both ways.
Also i do read with interes what your saying and hope to see more info from you and Keith on 'problems" about the Onkyo's, but on Audyssey we better close this discussion, you are not going my way because Audyssey is doing what you want, and i do not go your way.

Thx, and see you on the next post.....

+1. I'm starting to damage the wall with my head now...

If you put a bit more thought into it, it doesn't acutally worth both ways.

What you are putting forward is merely your opinion based on your preference, nothing more. As I have said before, I don't have a problem with you stating your opinion/preference, but you are trying to do more than that and it just isn't making any sense.

It appears at this point that he simply prefers the sound he has been listening to for some time over the corrected sound that the recording engineer intended. The whole preference vs reference thing. It did take me a little while to get used to "correct sound" but I'm glad I took the time to do so. I was missing a lot before I corrected for my room issues. There's so much to learn in these forums. Lots of very knowledgeable people.

O, ooooh, then you have to re-do Audyssey again....... LOL

Yes, I've been through that same transition myself, twice.

Yes indeed. Myself and mjf_uk have no problem at all with people preferring one sound over another. But I think it's important before one starts to go for preference to know what reference is - that way one has a definite 'ground zero' to start from and to go back to if necessary. CBdicX, OTOH, is taking a different position which is that the room is not a relevant issue as far as he is concerned. That position is not a sustainable one because it goes against the entire body of acoustic science. He seems to believe that he is getting a "good" or a "right" sound in his room when he is in fact getting neither and nor can he be until he accepts the role that the room plays in the overall sound. I constantly read of people spending money on a new AVR or new speakers, or new cables etc in the search for 'better' sound but they spend nothing at all on trying to improve the single most important component in their system: the room. CBdicX says there is no point in trying to correct for room modes and reflections because his cat might sit in a different place sometimes - this shows that he has no understanding at all of what I and mjf_uk were trying to explain to him, nor does he understand even the basics of room treatments. It is refreshing to read your post where you took the time to learn and then apply your new knowledge in the pursuit of better sound, which you then achieved. Some people refuse to be told, refuse to learn. It's their prerogative of course. The danger is, other people read their guff and also believe it and follow it, and that is a real pity because they could get so much more pleasure out of their system if it was working to its maximum potential.

The damage might help diffuse some of the HF....

Regardless of what Audyssey is doing the only thing of any consequence is whether or not the ears can detect the difference and does the listener like it.

I agree. The answer to both is, for the large majority of people, yes.

While that is the most important thing to each individual, it still doesn't make an opinion based on preference a fact. Your sig seems to contradict your post.

So, in theory, in a perfectly treated room, Audyssey wouldn't make any corrections?

(BTW, I really like Audyssey)

A good read from the bleachers. Thanks!

My problem with the Onkyo AVR is ease of use.

1 No memory buttons for different bass settings.
Movies vs Music. So you have to go through a menu every time, which means the projector has be fired up. Major PIA.... (The one Yamaha feature I really miss)

2 No Audyssey disable button on the remote.
Again you have to fire up the projector, and go through all the menu's.

I personally believe that is still would. But that's just my opinion.

Same here.

Although it could be done with some clever remote control programming.

That's probably right. I say probably because Audyssey may do things we don't know about (because the precise way it works is a closely guarded, proprietary secret). Theoretically, if the room is 'perfect' then there will be little in the way of correction needed by Audyssey.

If you have a Harmony remote, Logitech will, on request, add the discrete Onkyo codes to it.

A good alternative is using the oRemote app for iOS (if you have an iOS device...)

Two way feedback and discrete buttons for almost every function..

I agree about the Yamaha... the system memories are fantastic (for those that don't know, the older (i.e. Z7, 3900, etc) had system memories that could be recalled with one button push.. you could store speaker configs, eq setups, video setups... almost everything..

Can anyone confirm if the 5008 rear USB stays powered on regardless of input/source? This may make a great cooling solution http://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Dua.../ref=de_a_smtd

Yes, it is on when the unit is powered up and then off when in standby. It has been discussed before.

These fans will make a lot of dB's when they run on full power.
Try Noise Blocker M12-S1 on a master/slave unit, running on 4 or 6 volts, will lower the temp inside with about 7 to 10 C. and you will not hear them.
i have 3 running on top on the back side of the receiver where the most heat is...
I tested 5 different, low noise brands, and the NB's were the most silent fans and the best air suckers on low volts.........
I see low temps on my Integra with the 3 fans running, no higher then 34-36 C. when tested in heavy use for 2 hours.

Actually I don't, but we don't need to further that discussion.

Any recommendations on the Master\\Slave unit? Any one know how many watts the 5008 draws in standby?

The NB's are very low and surely silent but dang $25 a fan! The Coolerguys are around ~20db. My understanding is hearing your self breath is around 10db. (Hope this means lean in shape dude vs fat guy tying his shoe )

Any Master/slave (smart strip) will do, put the receiver in the master and the fan(s) power adaptor in the Slave and all works.
I use 3 x 12cm NB fans on the receiver.
Yes, $25 is a high price but they will work for years and years without making any bearing noise !
Also these fans have rubber corners to prevent the fan from vibrating on the case.
They are garanteed for the use of 6 years (160.000 hours), and they use a specific bearing design so they can be used horizontal, most fans (allmost all !) are designed to work vertical and will start to make noise after some time.
I use the NB's now for more then 3 years (8 to 12 hours a day) and they still make no sound on the bearings
The fan inself is also extreme silent, dB not measurable (below 6 dB/A).

It is on regardless, but remember it is delivering only 5 volts. So if you are using a typical 12 volt PC cooling fan it will not run at anywhere near its full speed and thus may not give you the cooling you need. Then again, it may - you'd have to try it. If it doesn't you can always hook up the 12v PC fan to a 'wall wart' and power it that way, using a 'smart strip' to turn it on and off with the AVR.

If you have RHID and/or network control turned on in the 5008, the difference between ON and Standby is not sufficient to trip the smart strip. A simple workaround is to use some other component that is always required when you use your system, to trip the smart strip. EG, the screen or a power amp etc.


ROFLMAO!