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Cylindrical A-Lens Owner's Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGINC View Post

Mark, I wonder how real the 50K hours are? I have seen a lot of low power LEDs fail long before 10K hours. Maybe the LED life is inflated as much as the projector bulb life? I suspect the replacement cost is such a large percentage of the projector, if a LED does fail you have a throw away unit.

You could be right there, spoke to a gentlemen on the phone last night who deals with projectors and he said the same thing. Too early for know wait a few years.

I think I'll wait know!!
post #152 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGINC View Post

Mark, I wonder how real the 50K hours are? I have seen a lot of low power LEDs fail long before 10K hours. Maybe the LED life is inflated as much as the projector bulb life? I suspect the replacement cost is such a large percentage of the projector, if a LED does fail you have a throw away unit.

Even if the unit lasts 20 000 hours, I'd say still way better than the 2000 hours we currently get. Disposable units are certainly the direction I see LED technology heading. I am guessing no filters to replace either.
post #153 of 623
Quote:


I wonder how real the 50K hours are?

They'll be UNreal of course. Projector manufacturers' ratings always are. I'm surprised anyone takes them seriously.

50K hours is 5.7 years of continuous viewing.

There'll be enough upgrades and enhancements in that time to make sure users continue upgrading.

LED projectors are just too dim at the moment. When they get brighter (presumably before the mythical "50K" hours come up) the new model will be the latest craze.
post #154 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGINC View Post

Mark, I wonder how real the 50K hours are? I have seen a lot of low power LEDs fail long before 10K hours. Maybe the LED life is inflated as much as the projector bulb life?

You'll need to ask Mr. Svante Arrhenius if you can find him.
post #155 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGINC View Post

Maybe the LED life is inflated as much as the projector bulb life?

Except I've seen many UHP lamps lasting as long as their specified hour rating - and some even longer. Of course I've seen many that don't.
post #156 of 623
Thread Starter 
I hope I'm assuming correctly that my lens will be compatible with a 3D projector as is. I don't see why it wouldn't.
post #157 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

I hope I'm assuming correctly that my lens will be compatible with a 3D projector as is. I don't see why it wouldn't.

It should do!!
post #158 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

I hope I'm assuming correctly that my lens will be compatible with a 3D projector as is. I don't see why it wouldn't.

The question is - do projectors like the Vango Scale for CIH. Other than that, single lens projector, yes it will work.
post #159 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

The question is - do projectors like the Vango Scale for CIH. Other than that, single lens projector, yes it will work.

Yes it does
post #160 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Yes it does

NICE!!! Thank you Alan
post #161 of 623
This may not be the ideal thread. Nevertheless---

What would happen if a manufacturer using 16x9 native panels decided to use an anamorphic lens (let's say it expanded horizontally) as the spec lens. Not a second lens, the prime lens. Then used some software that could feed what we usually term 'squeezed' frames to the lens to send 2.35 to a CIH screen. Then, when the native material was 16x9, a graphics processor could output a correctly proportioned image on the same 2.35 CIH screen. Yes, you would have unused bars to the sides. Not a bad compromise for me.

Basically, even though the panel is 16x9, the default optimization would be for 2.35. The firmware could be the same as long as there is some way to instruct the projector as to what aspect you desire. A projector could be ordered optimized for either format. But not both.

Not as good as native 2.35 panels, but fairly easy perhaps. Some software and tell the lens maker a different set of specs. The size of the lens might be an issue, but it has a distinct advantage by being close to the imager.

Or maybe this is just nonsense. Just a what-if. It is quiet around here lately.
post #162 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

This may not be the ideal thread. Nevertheless---

What would happen if a manufacturer using 16x9 native panels decided to use an anamorphic lens (let's say it expanded horizontally) as the spec lens. Not a second lens, the prime lens.

Cost, size and weight of the projector would go way up.

Quote:


Basically, even though the panel is 16x9, the default optimization would be for 2.35. The firmware could be the same as long as there is some way to instruct the projector as to what aspect you desire. A projector could be ordered optimized for either format. But not both.

And right now, with a 16:9 projector, anamorphic lens and a slide, (separately they are probably cheaper than a one unit solution too) allows optimization of both 16:9 and Scope.

Quote:


Not as good as native 2.35 panels, but fairly easy perhaps. Some software and tell the lens maker a different set of specs. The size of the lens might be an issue, but it has a distinct advantage by being close to the imager.

Or maybe this is just nonsense. Just a what-if. It is quiet around here lately.

This approach is no different to what many of use are doing now anyway (myself included) and that is to leave the lens in place and Scale for CIH.
post #163 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post


Not as good as native 2.35 panels, but fairly easy perhaps. Some software and tell the lens maker a different set of specs. The size of the lens might be an issue, but it has a distinct advantage by being close to the imager.

Or maybe this is just nonsense. Just a what-if. It is quiet around here lately.

As CAVX said, a few people already do that, and Runco had a projector that had a fixed prism lens (in front of the prime) which wasn't designed to be removed. I can't remember the model number right now but shows at least one manufacturer had moved in that direction, albeit with a fixed secondary lens rather than a single lens solution.

Gary
post #164 of 623
CAVX

I used an ISCO II mounted behind float glass in a hush box for some years with the JVC G15 and processed with Vigatec. If you look at net effect I must agree with you. Nevertheless, there are other aspects clearly. Elegant simplicity is sacrificed IMHO. Having said that, I don't expect this to happen. I had forgotten about the Runco. Good point.

Ciao,

Vince
post #165 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

CAVX

I used an ISCO II mounted behind float glass in a hush box for some years with the JVC G15 and processed with Vigatec.

As you have to with this lens due to the fact that it magnifies the height slightly.

Quote:
If you look at net effect I must agree with you. Nevertheless, there are other aspects clearly.

Elegant simplicity is sacrificed IMHO. Having said that, I don't expect this to happen. I had forgotten about the Runco. Good point.

Ciao,

Vince

I am not 100% sure if I am understanding this part of your post. By "elegant simplicity", are you referring to the alignment of the A-Lens?

Runco's Cinewide is an excellent example of the "all in one package".
post #166 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post


Runco's Cinewide is an excellent example of the "all in one package".

Have to agree with that.
post #167 of 623
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Runco's Cinewide is an excellent example of the "all in one package".

It's looks like a clean package, though the Whitney lens, thats riveted on, is a prism I believe. Like Runco, Marantz has/had several A-lens options, up to and including the Isco as their top option with a motorized slide.
post #168 of 623
Quote:


What would happen if a manufacturer using 16x9 native panels decided to use an anamorphic lens (let's say it expanded horizontally) as the spec lens. Not a second lens, the prime lens. Then used some software that could feed what we usually term 'squeezed' frames to the lens to send 2.35 to a CIH screen. Then, when the native material was 16x9, a graphics processor could output a correctly proportioned image on the same 2.35 CIH screen. Yes, you would have unused bars to the sides.

The prime anamorphic lens would be a little bigger than the spherical prinme lens would be, but not by a great deal.

The anamorphic elements would be placed early in the chain, mostly near to the back of the lens and thus wouldn't need to be big at all. This is done routinely with camera anamorphics and commercial cinema anamorphic projection lenses and works fairly well.

The elements after the anamorphic elements perform some correction for aberrations arising from the anamorphic elements, especially geometric ones like pincushion. There is a pincushion improvement but not necessarily elimination. Usually there is a sweet spot - an ideal throw and throw ratio - where everything comes together, but outside that range you see some fall-off which, is why companies like Schneider make a range of these types of anamorphic primes.

The following link contains a list of 22 such lenses made by Schneider

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/pr...anamorphic.htm

Schneider patents describe a lens system where the spherical component of the lens deliberately aberrates the beam in one "direction" so that unavoidable aberration by the anamorphic component in the other "direction" is balanced. If either section is used on its own the picture looks terrible, but together they work to produce a clean image.
post #169 of 623
Aussie Bob,

In this line

"The prime anamorphic lens would be a little bigger than the spherical anamorphic would be, but not by a great deal."

Should it be spherical non-anamorphic? Or perhaps I am not following. It happens.

The Hubble fix was a classic example of off-setting imperfections. Chillingly good actually.

Vince

Edit: Hubble, while yielding a good result, does not follow the logic properly. To that extent it is not a good example. Both aberrations were NOT intentional.
post #170 of 623
I think it would still attract negativity due to the fact that the full panel (1920 x 1080) was not being used for HDTV etc.
post #171 of 623
Quote:
I think it would still attract negativity due to the fact that the full panel (1920 x 1080) was not being used for HDTV etc.

So it seems you've retracted your advocacy for leaving the lens in place all the time?

Quote:
In this line

"The prime anamorphic lens would be a little bigger than the spherical anamorphic would be, but not by a great deal."

Should it be spherical non-anamorphic?

Yes, of course. forgive the typo. Fixed in post.
post #172 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post

So it seems you've retracted your advocacy for leaving the lens in place all the time?

Not at all. Whilst my lens is mounted on a slide, it never gets shifted from the light path unless I am demonstrating the "scaling+optics" principals for a client.

I'm simply speaking on behalf of all those that do believe in having HDTV displayed at 1920 x 1080 and why I don't think an anamorphic lens built into the projector would work as mass produced product.
post #173 of 623
Thread Starter 
Here's another way to look at it. Those of us that have these top shelf A-lenses, certainly have considered the longevity of the use as an important factor in the purchase. This same basic lens has been around for decades. And could remain the standard for along time. However projector have a tendency to have a shelf life of about 20 seconds. Do you really want a non upgradeable component buried in a projector that could be obsolete in a few years or less. I group this type of A-lens in the same category as power amps. You buy a good one you like and it will outlast a dozen preamp/receivers which seem to change yearly, with new must have options. I know guys that have been waiting years to update the expensive pre/pros to HDMI (even Parasound cancelled their new one in April due to HDMI issues) and now we are moving to 1.4. As long as we have 16x9 projectors(no matter the resolution) and 2.35/2.40 content my A-lens is gold. There's components that are replaced every one or two years and then there's components that remain for ten or twenty years. I'm hoping mine's in the latter.
post #174 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

There's components that are replaced every one or two years and then there's components that remain for ten or twenty years. I'm hoping mine's in the latter.

Well said
post #175 of 623
I have had my anamorphic lens for about 6 years now. I will never need to upgrade or replace it. However, I am on my third projector, not counting 4 previous CRT projectors.

Vern
post #176 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

I have had my anamorphic lens for about 6 years now. I will never need to upgrade or replace it. However, I am on my third projector, not counting 4 previous CRT projectors.

Vern

Can you share some details about your lens and maybe post a photo?
post #177 of 623
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

I have had my anamorphic lens for about 6 years now. I will never need to upgrade or replace it. However, I am on my third projector, not counting 4 previous CRT projectors.

Vern

Exactly. I've heard JVC has promised 3 new 3D projector(RS20,30,40?) along with the Sony VW90 and Panasonic AE5000 in October. All 3D. I, for one am looking forward to stereoscopic video to match the discrete 360 degree audio we enjoy. I think after viewing 3D content for sometime it will become second nature. I have a feeling it will be around awhile and will lead to the next step. I'm also looking forward to the better light engine. And I really think I'll still have my lens five to ten years from now with a 4k res/led driven/3D/1,000,000:1CR/3000lumen/convection cooled/wifi enabled and connected/self calibrating(ala Audissey for Video that calibrates for screen and room) projector. And, again, using my same old lens.
post #178 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

And, again, using my same old lens.

LOL, mabye you need to refer to that 'ol lens, not old lens
post #179 of 623
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

LOL, mabye you need to refer to that 'ol lens, not old lens

Hehehe. Your right, ol' more like it. I've had mine what, 3+ months. But, come on Mark, you know 3 months is the half-life of electronics. Especially gotta love projectors, with their Fedex Obsolencence. LED's units will be half off next month, right.
post #180 of 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

Hehehe. Your right, ol' more like it. I've had mine what, 3+ months. But, come on Mark, you know 3 months is the half-life of electronics.

A state of the art optical device like an ISCO III (or even my own MK4) is hardly "electronic", so does not have a "3 month half life". These anamorphic lenses are one off investments that won't ever need to be upgraded unless the required horizontal magnification changes from the current 1.33x.

Quote:


Especially gotta love projectors, with their Fedex Obsolencence. LED's units will be half off next month, right.

Bring 'em on. I am really looking to replace my BenQ W5000 with something LED that is 3D ready. I just don't feel like being an early adopter this time round
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