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Audyssey DSX & Dolby Pro-Logic IIz Receiver Questions

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

I am a novice and my understanding of these things is somewhat limited so please excuse any ignorance on my part. I need some help & understanding with an issue regarding AV Receivers that offer Dolby Pro-Logic IIz & Audyssey DSX formats (especially since most that do usually offer both). Regarding the "Height" speakers, DPLIIz & DSX have two totally different criteria (except that they should both be high up close to the ceiling I believe) for the placement of these "Height" Speakers. DPLIIz clearly specifies a fixed position whereby the "Height" speakers must be placed directly above & in-line with the Main L&R speakers. DSX specifies that the "Height" speakers must be each placed at an 45° angular spread left & right from the listening position which means their positioning is variable & will likely mean that the DSX "Height" speakers will be further apart than the DPLIIz ones. To accommodate further, they also may need to be placed in the ceiling and/or at the side walls further "into" the room to achieve the positioning angle. This then also means that in most rooms, it is probably very unlikely that one will be able to use a single set of "common Height" speakers to use/interchange between the formats as you cannot have a single set of speakers at two different positions.

With that in mind, should not AV Receivers that offer both DPLIIz & DSX offer two sets of "Height" speaker channels/terminals - one dedicated for each format? That way, users can (if they wish) install two sets of dedicated "Height" speakers each correctly set up & in compliance with each format. As it is, users are given both formats but in practicality terms, they are limited to only using one since it is very unlikely that they will keep physically changing the location of the "Height" speakers or install two sets of "Height" speakers and then swap the cables at the back of the "Height" Channel terminals on the back of the receiver every-time they wish to switch between the formats to ascertain which they prefer depending on the material & content at the time. I would like to ask, is there a solution to this that I may be unaware of or is there anything I have not taken into account?

In my case, I will not be running the "Back Surrounds" as my listening position is right up against a back wall. In addition to the standard 5.1 layout, in order to run DSX "Wides", DSX "Heights" & DPLIIz "Heights" one would need a 9.1 Receiver with 2 sets of "Height" speaker terminals or a 11.1 one if not more. Surely, the manufacturers all know this & I am bemused why they would offer features which then cannot be used fully and/or omit something that is so glaringly obvious like enough connections for those features - why offer features that one cannot fully or ideally use or utilise - especially on somewhat expensive items as many of these AV Receivers are? I want to run "Wide" Speakers For DSX, and both "Height" speakers for DSX & DPLIIz - what do I do?

Also & just as importantly, can anyone fully confirm for me if it is possible to run DSX "Wides" & DPLIIz "Heights" at the same time on on receivers that offer a choice of DSX "Wides" OR "Heights" only but then also offers DPLIIz? By the way, sorry to be a dunce on these matters!

Many Thanks,

Bazzy!
post #2 of 6
Sorry,
I'm bumping this question as it was asked by Bazzy much better than I could. Also, since PL IIz has been out a little longer now, I'm gambling that more members have experience with height speakers.

I would also like to add a question on what type of speaker would be best. Atlantic is now offering what looks like a bipole speaker intended to be used as a height speaker. This would imply a more disperse sound field and the first reflections would seem to simulate the DSX prescribed angles.

So, would using an old set of Klipsch bipole with two angled horns and one forward facing 5.25" speaker placed directly above the mains work, or would the bipole layout work against the PL IIz processing by spreading out a signal originally intended to be more point-source?

Thanks for putting up with an old post that was probably before it's time.
post #3 of 6
Mfgr's don't even offer enough amp channels for completely different channels let alone multiple sets for heights.

I'd guess that DPLIIz would work a lot better with the recommended DSX height positions than the DSX height signal fed to speakers in the DPLIIz positions.
post #4 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Mfgr's don't even offer enough amp channels for completely different channels let alone multiple sets for heights.

I'd guess that DPLIIz would work a lot better with the recommended DSX height positions than the DSX height signal fed to speakers in the DPLIIz positions.

Originally posted in the PLIIz Height Speaker Review thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

The height speaker placement recommendation for Audyssey DSX is at a 45 deg elevation angle from the listeners' ears, and I don't see why that would be incorrect for IIx.

It's important to remember that the DSX height speaker placement is 45 deg off centerline (versus 30 deg off centerline , i.e., over the mains, for DPLIIz); this translates into higher placement than if you compute 45 deg elevation above the mains. Notwithstanding any of the foregoing: The placement criterion for the DPLIIz height speakers quoted in several articles is 3 feet above the mains...?! [I'm guessing that's supposed to be tweeter-to-tweeter vertical separation...?!]

Note also that there are a few quotes by Dolby reps/techs in articles which say that a placement 'slightly wider' than "over the mains" is also acceptable. With that in mind, I'm taking as a working hypothesis that the same placement can be 'acceptable' for both DSX and DPLIIz front height speakers, and also for Yamaha Front Presence speakers [thereby facilitating swapping receiver brands in the future, without the need to relocate DSX/DPLIIz front height/Yamaha Front Presence speakers!]

And after Q2.2011, we'll likely find ourselves with a three-way conundrum: Where to place the Front Height speakers for an AVR equipped with all three of the Audyssey DSX, Dolby Pro Logic IIz, and DTS Neo:X processors?

[Just a thought: It would be pretty pointless to complain about 'poor performance' if one did not follow the recommendations for speaker configuration in the User Manual of the installed AVR...?! ]
post #5 of 6
I'm using a pair of Atlantic Technology 1400SRz speakers (in bipole mode) for my heights. They are positioned three feet over the L&R front speakers and slightly wider in my 3400 cu. ft. room. I play movies in both the DPLIIz and Audyssey DSX listening modes. Both sound perfectly acceptable to me. I have no space for front wide speakers and like many people out there without a fully dedicated home theater room I'm limited as to speaker placement.

I had a 7.2 setup and installed the front height speakers (to make it 9.2) as an experiment, with cooperation from my local dealer. I decided to keep them and made the installation permanent. I'm so satisfied with the performance that I can't imagine going back.

What I'm trying to say is that even if you can't position your height speakers perfectly you shouldn't let that stop you from trying them. Don't overthink things. It can cause you to miss out on some enjoyable experiences

Cheers,
SB
post #6 of 6
Brazzy,

New theater build in progress. Same issues about front height speaker placements. What is your current understanding of a solution.

Mike
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