HTPC Golden Age? Reducing Component Count - Page 3

Since most home users only want to watch a single source at a time (in the same room), the splitter is the ideal solution.
However there is a typical exception: In my other smaller media room I have a 30" 2560*1600 LG display along with a Pioneer 141 1080p plasma. Here a splitter is not optimal because of the different resolutions, so my Intel i7 computer is getting a new ATI 5750 which can drive three different displays (at different resolutions) simultaneously, along with HDMI audio.
BTW I've got cat 5e going to every room with Ethernet based HDTV tuners and network shares set up.

I know it hurts Nvidia enthusiasts when I stated I’m dropping Nvidia for ATI. Contrast this to others accused me of being five years behind. Yet you recommend waiting several more months for rumored products.
Sony taught me several times that consumer loyalty will always be punished. History also shows those who jump first become beta testers, and then go on to whine at AVS. What a miserable rut to be in?

Just because Nvidia doesn’t talk about HDMI audio does not mean there is not a large demand for HDMI audio. There is. How else is the HDMI audio to get outside of the computer? It must go through one HDMI port along with the video.

Hopefully next year you will be able to buy an HDMI audio based Nvidia card, and then post how wonderful it is. Like 2009 for the rest of us? Ironically what you criticize me for is exactly what you yourself are doing.

As Tom’s hardware pointed out, adding HDMI audio to a video card usually eliminates the need for a separate $200 audio card. That is exactly the point of this thread: reducing component count (and implied noise and power consumption). The superior 40nm ATI process does just that too.

The most important feature of my HTPC system is to allow all family members to be able to timeshift HDTV broadcasts, without paying a subscription (to be saturated with advertising).

The critical products reaching stability and maturity are:

HTPC based Intel i3 processors in source component size micro cases
ATI HDMI audio and video
Power DVD 10 Mark II 3D disc playback
Windows Media Center 7 DVR and remotes
Free HDTV broadcasts and TV guides
Ethernet based HDTV tuners
Wireless N (300mbs) and/or inexpensive Gigabit Ethernet networks
2TB drives

All are green. WMC is actually more efficient than cable and satellite as the low power computer goes to sleep while not in use. Try that (and Blu-ray or Dvd streaming playback, Internet streaming and surfing, music streaming playback) with cable or satellite!

HDMI Audio Based Computer Choices
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I've built three HDMI video and multichannel systems:

The $330 Acer 3610 dual atom with Nvidia ION graphics nettop computer is small and uses low power (though the ION chip itself appears to run hot).
Really needs an external workhorse eSata drive to record 2-3 programs concurrently. Blu-ray playback requires and expensive external drive, and PowerDvd may not run optimally with the Atom (better to buy a stand-alone player - I use a nice but too-expensive Oppo). Very quiet too.

The small formed factor sized $549 Gateway SX2840 internal DVD drive can easily be swapped out for a Bly-ray drive. I turn it on its side and it looks like a regular stereo component. Must use a low profile, low power ATI video card (like the Sapphire ATI 5570) with half-height type bracket.


Only one video port is active so the 1080p output must be split ($30) for home theaters with two displays. Quiet, fast and power efficient.

For a full-sized (regular noisy and power hog) computer I've just finished installing a $150 HIS ATI 5750 connected to a 2580*1600 desktop display and a Pioneer 141 60" 1080p Plasma. The drivers are stable and everything integrates seamlessly. This card has a "Enable ITC Processing"
(Select—Enables ITC processing for HDMI displays that are capable of the feature. When movies are played in full-screen mode, the display’s processors can be used to ensure video quality)
check-box which may help make the picture quality drop-dead gorgeous.


PowerDvd 10 Ultra MK II and ATI combination looks better than the Oppo as the computation power isn't even in the same ballpark.

Compare these extremely useful and practical systems to the typical 1.5Kwatt hairdryer 115Hz gamer computer that the industry seems to be stuck on. Can't stay a teenager forever guys!

I agree as competing manufactures must be a bit unsettled at the situation.
Maybe I didn’t make clear but I‘ve got three different media rooms in my house. One with a Panasonic 65” 3D plasma, another with a computer monitor and a Pioneer 141 plasma operating at two different resolutions and then a 120” JVC projector and LCD monitor operating at the same 1080p resolution.
My goal was to be able to stream between the three varying systems, then clearly and concisely explain the logic and reasoning behind the choices (but only if there were NO issues)!
We are at the point where most people don’t need to spend a lifetime becoming a computer geek. While computer have become a commodity item, HTPC have NOT. At least until now. This very exciting news indeed!
The integration efforts over the years between Cyberlink, Microsoft and ATI have really paid off for the consumer, as a HDMI equipped Home Theater PC makes for a superb Jack-of-All-Trades.
I’ve touched on many of the advantages, there are actually more. Make no mistake about it, High-Definition HTPC is ready for the masses. Manufactures and retailers know all about this, but are slow to accept it, as virtually every company wants to keep consumers buying into their proprietary system. (MicroSoft Windows popularity has been waning a bit, so they strike back with WMC 7).
Best Buy finally stocks a few small form-factor PCs (but still no Intel i3 and ATI HDMI based audio and video), not even the second generation stripped-down SX2850.
Hopefully these mature and largely bug free technologies will quickly become a commodity item and put an end to the endless frustration (so well documented at this forum). Rather than reading what gear to avoid I post what is (almost) guaranteed to work.
Are there bugs: yes the Nvidia ION system keeps switching to 1024 resolution whenever its HDMI connection to the display is switched out.
Then for audio I still have to manually switch between the 44,100 and 48,000 frequencies, when the software should automatically keep the sound in the native format, rather than degrading it.

Putting your head in the sand is one way to deal with the issue, I guess.

Maybe its a matter of perspective, as my experiences are probably different than yours. I approach audio and video from a purists (not Stereophile or Monster Cable) and engineer approach. The most basic principle is once a signal has been digitally sampled it must stay in that format. Otherwise the quality is degraded.

The question is can a HTPC now replace all other components? Hmmmm...
Does a stand-alone CD player resample from 44.1 to 48Khz? no

Does an PS3 or Xbox or most HTPC quietly resample the audio? Yes!

Why does Blu-ray and HDTV broadcasts look so good today? Because the 1920*1080 signal format is untouched! Here its called 1:1 pixel mapping, where each pixels remains untouched from the camera to the HDTV. This is why computer text is so clear with playback at the native rate. It is also why Best Buy does NOT payback their computer displays at the native rate - do you know why?

I realize that young people ripped to mp3, a format which was developed when storage space was expensive. That dear friends, is no longer the case. Today we have an entire generation that doesn't realize what they have been missing. That is quality. Comparable to just eating fast-food?

Even worse its difficult to unlearn bad ways. Incidentally, this ingrained attitude is the root cause why HTPC progress with HDMI audio has been so slow too. ATI is enlightened, Nvidia is not (incidentally which is American designed?)

Previous versions of Windows butchered the sound quality. Windows 7 manually allows setting the playback rate (44,48,88,96KHz) and the bit depth (16 or 24 bits) without corruption. Everyone clap!

So like why can't the software transfer any incoming format and pass it on to the HDMI output untouched? After all HDMI is designed to handle all these formats. Dah!

From my empathy, I realize a bit more patience is required to unlearn those bad ways.

Well excuse me but I gotta go grab some Taco Bell. Yummy!

Sound Issue #1
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Windows Media Center doesn't work if the sound is not set to 48Khz and 16 bits depth
WMC gives a bogus fatal blue screen error that the drivers are not installed correctly. Such a stupid misleading error message, when it's just a simple forced compromise (brought on by an inadequate design) user setting in the sound applet.
Worse the Internet searches do not hit upon this key shortcoming (setting the user preferences "wrong"). They state to reinstall the application.

Sound Issue #2
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Your receiver's surround sound processing modes require the native format, or they don't work. For example, Dolby likes 48Khz. Circle Surround II only likes 44.1Khz stereo sources.

Using Stupidity to Make a Bad Problem Worse
-------------------------------------------
Set the speakers to 5.1 then all six HDMI channels are activated even when mono or stereo sources a played. Then the receiver rightly disables many surround sound and processing features like mixing stereo bass to the subwoofer.


Solution
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A sound applet check-box to "keep sound in native format"
It that simple yet it takes the computer industry (10 years and counting) to solve.


The ATI HDMI audio device will show up here in the Windows 7 sound applet:


The Configure button sets the speakers and the Properties set the sample rate and number of bits. So I must manually set this crap every time I switch between music and movies! While its hard to blame anyone experience dictates starting with Realtek, a leading manufacture of lagging computer sound chips.

The best products take a incredibly complex set of functionality and make it a easy to use: witness the success of Apple iPhone
While all the issues you state are true, the situation has improved rather dramatically!

Motherboards continue the trend of incorporating more functionality. Intel’s adding HDMI based video/audio on the same CPU die is excellent value (even if they can’t output 23.976Hz correctly). To compete, ATI’s added HDMI to its video cards. Their drivers/GPU handle interfacing to the display through this messy interface superbly, no small feat.
So ATI’s 5xxx series HDMI solution is a large step forward and is quite elegant and integrates nicely with WMC and Power Dvd 10. Power Dvd provides truly excellent picture quality and has user selectable features such as motion interpolation (and puts the free VLC player to shame. I purchased a full OEM version for $40 and installed it on my three computers).

Consumers should typically choose 16-235 video range and disable the stupidly default enabled ATI over-scan (why is my text blurry?)

I’m enthusiastically sold on HTPC from this point-on even though I may whine and be a bit cynical. I look forward to every consumer having just one open-source component to drive a receiver, speakers and HDTV. The technology is here today and ready for assembly and integration to stream video in a home network.

WMC does not work if the sound is set to 44.1Kz! You need to read the huge complicated tables which better receivers include stating what processing they can do for which input streams.
You do lose sound processing features on the receiver as its falsely lead to believe the incoming stereo steam is already 5.1 channels, so it can't expand into 5.1 channels, even though it should and wants to but can't. Brute force changing to a new fake format for no-good-reason, is pure stupidity. Accept it

At least we agree: "it would be nice if you could set it to passthrough". Dah!

Passthrough is the lowest latency as it involves the least processing (just copying).

Finding the best sound quality is a quest like peeling off the layers of an onion. The difference is there, it just you haven't go far enough to realize it.

Did you mean to say "Play for Sure" a technology which MS turned its back on consumers and abandoned? Just like Sony?

The is why you want a open-source HTPC and setup simple shares/disk mounts over a network to steam regardless of where you are and independent of where the movie/music is stored.

I say by using Xp, you should not even be in this discussion!

Linux was born because of closed proprietary software. So today it is MicroSoft's main competitor and keeps them in check.

DVRs have also been closed and proprietary component, with the difference being its now hardware (rather than software).

HTPC typically contain largely open-source software and hardware with MS software being the exception. But WMC is just an application, not a source of advertising revenue like Tivo DVRs (they are the worst example of invasion of privacy into the home I've ever witnessed, yet many intelligent people were duped).

In any event open-source components free consumers from subscriptions, leases and not paying for channels you never watch. Enter the Golden Age of HTPC.

Wow! I find the skewing here as if the post were from the industry. I don't have the time to refute everything. Mathematically changing from 44.1 to 48KHz is quite difficult.

LCD monitors only look clear and sharp when set to their native or recommend resolution. Best Buy TVs and computer monitors on display are frequently fed a mediocre signal at a different resolution so consumers cannot make a valid picture quality comparison. Forgive me for assuming the obvious.

To help sell an expensive display they frequently fed it a high quality Blu-ray at the displays native resolution. Forgive me for assuming the obvious.

The same analogy holds true for audio, change its native sample rate and quality suffers. Forgive me for assuming the obvious, but now I can see where we are: lowest common denominator vs. highest common denominator

Thank you for posting. Now go home and set your 1080p TV to 720p and see if you can tell a difference.