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The "Official" Onkyo TX-NR808 Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

The DHCP client in the Onkyo is erroneously sending multiple repeating discover requests when it shouldn't. In my case, this did not result in an observable failure, but depending upon how many times it refuses this negotiation, it could be a problem on your network. This does not accurately describe the root cause of all failure modes, however. If you are able to reach your receiver through the web interface or a ping, this, in all likelihood, not the problem you're experiencing.

I back up this claim; it looks like what the receiver is doing! I am not sure why the onkyo is not accepting the first offer. I recently switched routers from a Belkin (on it's last legs) to an Asus running Tomato. With the belkin, the router would refuse DHCP leasing to the receiver (and the onkyo would be stuck). The asus seems to have no problem providing offers multiple times.

This definitely sounds like a bug in the network stack of the onkyo. It seems like the users having problems are running routers that do not tolerate multiple discover packets from the receiver. This solidifies my post earlier about manually setting ip/subnet in the onkyo and having no problems (the DHCP multiple discover bug isn't present).


Great discovery! I am planning on sniffing other devices as well to see how many times they perform a DHCP discover.
post #302 of 1815
I've been running this lab over and over, and it appears to be intermittent. Sometimes the Onkyo sends a request after the first offer, but often times it will send multiple request... strange. My Airport seems happy to ACK it to death though.

I reeeeeally don't want to haul my receiver in to my office for wired testing. I might have to dig up a spool of Cat5 and run a wire across my house to see if it's the wireless bridge introducing too much loss in to the situation. DHCP is more like UDP than TCP. If the message doesn't make it, there's a complete retransmission of the transaction, rather than a low-level TCP retransmit. Basically, there's no way for me to verify that the offers and acks are making it back to the receiver. I'm mirroring at my router. Maybe I'll just take the switch out there and mirror at the receiver.

I also want to dig in to the other traffic on the wire when the receiver is initializing, but that's going to take some time. There's a lot of stuff going on here.
post #303 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by jink View Post

Great discovery! I am planning on sniffing other devices as well to see how many times they perform a DHCP discover.

Just a little poke at Windows here -- because I never pass on that opportunity -- Windows networking stacks are/were known to suffer from similar problems. They wouldn't accept DHCP offers, but for no good reason. Ever had a Windows PC show "limited or no connectivity", even though you're 100% certain they're plugged in properly and your network configuration is fine? DHCP negotiation failure right there.

Heh, maybe Onkyo borrowed some net code from MS roflmao
post #304 of 1815
Some information


DHCP discovery

The client broadcasts messages on the physical subnet to discover available DHCP servers. Network administrators can configure a local router to forward DHCP packets to a DHCP server from a different subnet. This client-implementation creates a User Datagram Protocol (UDP) packet with the broadcast destination of 255.255.255.255 or the specific subnet broadcast address.

A DHCP client can also request its last-known IP address (in the example below, 192.168.1.100). If the client remains connected to a network for which this IP is valid, the server might grant the request. Otherwise, it depends whether the server is set up as authoritative or not. An authoritative server will deny the request, making the client ask for a new IP address immediately. A non-authoritative server simply ignores the request, leading to an implementation-dependent timeout for the client to give up on the request and ask for a new IP address.

DHCP offer

When a DHCP server receives an IP lease request from a client, it reserves an IP address for the client and extends an IP lease offer by sending a DHCPOFFER message to the client. This message contains the client's MAC address, the IP address that the server is offering, the subnet mask, the lease duration, and the IP address of the DHCP server making the offer.

The server determines the configuration based on the client's hardware address as specified in the CHADDR (Client Hardware Address) field. Here the server, 192.168.1.1, specifies the IP address in the YIADDR (Your IP Address) field.

DHCP request

A client can receive DHCP offers from multiple servers, but it will accept only one DHCP offer and broadcast a DHCP request message. Based on the Transaction ID field in the request, servers are informed whose offer the client has accepted. When other DHCP servers receive this message, they withdraw any offers that they might have made to the client and return the offered address to the pool of available addresses. The DHCP request message is broadcast, instead of being unicast to a particular DHCP server, because the DHCP client has still not received an IP address. Also, this way one message can let all other DHCP servers know that another server will be supplying the IP address without missing any of the servers with a series of unicast messages.

DHCP acknowledgement

When the DHCP server receives the DHCPREQUEST message from the client, the configuration process enters its final phase. The acknowledgement phase involves sending a DHCPACK packet to the client. This packet includes the lease duration and any other configuration information that the client might have requested. At this point, the IP configuration process is completed.

The protocol expects the DHCP client to configure its network interface with the negotiated parameters.
post #305 of 1815
Aside from the networking tutorial, can anyone answer my previous question about the Onkyo 808 ?

Thanks!
post #306 of 1815
post #307 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by jink View Post

This definitely sounds like a bug in the network stack of the onkyo. It seems like the users having problems are running routers that do not tolerate multiple discover packets from the receiver. This solidifies my post earlier about manually setting ip/subnet in the onkyo and having no problems (the DHCP multiple discover bug isn't present).

After firmware update, I am still having "Now initializing" issues. After setting static IP for 808 and without using DHCP, I am still stuck with "Now initializing".

With or without DHCP, my router lists 808 as an attached device in only a few seconds, while 808 is always stuck with "Now initializing". The only way out of this quick is to unplug/replug the network cable.

It's not just DHCP. It might be router related, since it's working for some people. However, we are now doing Onkyo's job to test and troubleshoot. For a $1000+ product, it is NOT acceptable.
post #308 of 1815
Even though I only have one sub, MultiEQ shows two on the screen. Is that something I should be concerned about?
post #309 of 1815
There could be pending firmware revisions waiting to be released in the near future to address previous learned issues (whether or not a specific issue is known of or not - isn't understood). Debugging a complex system isn't easy I'm sure; having shareholders waiting, sometimes might mean a premature release. Aside from hardware, software takes time to perfect - especially in newly created configurations, such as this receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calebju View Post

After firmware update, I am still having "Now initializing" issues. After setting static IP for 808 and without using DHCP, I am still stuck with "Now initializing".

With or without DHCP, my router lists 808 as an attached device in only a few seconds, while 808 is always stuck with "Now initializing". The only way out of this quick is to unplug/replug the network cable.

It's not just DHCP. It might be router related, since it's working for some people. However, we are now doing Onkyo's job to test and troubleshoot. For a $1000+ product, it is NOT acceptable.
post #310 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

Just a little poke at Windows here -- because I never pass on that opportunity -- Windows networking stacks are/were known to suffer from similar problems....blah blah..
Heh, maybe Onkyo borrowed some net code from MS roflmao

do you really believe this is microsoft and not embedded linux code?! *bop over the head*

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolfpgh View Post

1. check/verify you're using a CAT5e/CAT6 cable
2. replace your hub/switch (the device at the other end of the cable)
(its not playing nice with the Onkyo NIC communication settings.. 'the black magic')

this black magic is also known as a loss of synchronisation during auto-negotiation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

No, that couldn't be farther from the truth..
.. two pairs of un-twisted 24 AWG voice cable. Granted, the distance was only about 14", but it works.

I don't want to get in to a pissing match over this though. I'm more interested in understanding this problem fully so maybe, just maybe, we can help some people resolve their issue.

i dont wish a pissing match either - but I believe you're wasting your time and you didnt read my post.
You/I/We cannot alter the tcp/ip stack of the Onkyo NIC. Why test it?! we know its wonky linux code on the hardware that isnt 'playing nice' with many switch/routers. Unplugging a cable and plugging it back in (as a fix) tells you immediately its not negotiating properly.
Do not use a 2pair CAT 5 cable..it wont work.


if other options posted here aren't working then the quick fix is to introduce a switch/cable that plays nice.. or sit around and wait for onkyo.

this is my last post on the matter wishing you all the best.
great receiver - love it!
post #311 of 1815
I have just installed my new 808 and am watching Dark Night from my Sony BDP 960 and the receiver will not play it in DOLBY, anyone know why this is? The BluRay states it is broadcasted in DOLBY HD, etc. I need help bad on this receiver. I have read all the instructions and am still confused. It only allows me to select multichannel input.

Thanks
post #312 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore27 View Post

I have just installed my new 808 and am watching Dark Night from my Sony BDP 960 and the receiver will not play it in DOLBY, anyone know why this is? The BluRay states it is broadcasted in DOLBY HD, etc. I need help bad on this receiver. I have read all the instructions and am still confused. It only allows me to select multichannel input.

Thanks

Hi Bmore27, make sure your blu-ray player is set to Bitstream or Direct and also note sometimes a Blu Ray disc will default to the standard DD/DTS track, so you might have to manually select the TrueHD/DTS-MA soundtrack. Normally this will be found under Audio or Language Setting.
post #313 of 1815
no

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

Just a little poke at Windows here -- because I never pass on that opportunity -- Windows networking stacks are/were known to suffer from similar problems. They wouldn't accept DHCP offers, but for no good reason. Ever had a Windows PC show "limited or no connectivity", even though you're 100% certain they're plugged in properly and your network configuration is fine? DHCP negotiation failure right there.

Heh, maybe Onkyo borrowed some net code from MS roflmao
post #314 of 1815
Still not makin any sense. First you said it was peoples routers, now you say it is the receiver's code. Make up your mind, obviously you don't know one way or the other. He tested a revised system so his findings are only valid for revised units. Even so, his findings didn't (don't) prove or even demonstrate (duplicate) the issue many are having with or without firmware update.

Actually, both of you are out of line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolfpgh View Post

do you really believe this is microsoft and not embedded linux code?! *bop over the head* i dont wish a pissing match either - but I believe you're wasting your time and you didnt read my post. You/I/We cannot alter the tcp/ip stack of the Onkyo NIC. Why test it?! we know its wonky linux code on the hardware that isnt 'playing nice' with many switch/routers. Unplugging a cable and plugging it back in (as a fix) tells you immediately its not negotiating properly.
Do not use a 2pair CAT 5 cable..it wont work.


if other options posted here aren't working then the quick fix is to introduce a switch/cable that plays nice.. or sit around and wait for onkyo.

this is my last post on the matter wishing you all the best.
great receiver - love it!
post #315 of 1815
ugh.. you're killing me. ok, I'm typing this slowly perhaps that will help.

there is no question the issue is with the Onkyo NIC tcp/ip stack > the problem only occurs with certain routers/switches.
can you do anything about the Onyko NIC tcp/ip stack? > no >
check cable and/or purchase a new $35 switch > problem solved

you guys are making this a lot more difficult than it really is.
yes virginia, not all computer equipment communicates nicely with each other... not unlike us humans, eh?

p.s. relax..im just busting your balls. have a great day.
post #316 of 1815
Do you think it is worth it to try and exchange my 808 for another one, or would I still have the networking issue?
post #317 of 1815
It isn't your typing, it's the context of it. Next time try elaborating your FIRST stance. You might sound more credible. You can't say with any certainty that replacing the router will correct the issues. Telling people to go out and spend more money is bad advice. The firmware revision fixed my issue (to-date).

The objective is to determine where the problem is occurring. If it appears to overwhelmingly be the receiver, Onkyo needs to work towards addressing it. Which (if you've been paying attention) they have begun doing (firmware revision specifically addressing issue). That's not to say there's nothing else needing revised, possibly overlooked or still pending release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolfpgh View Post

ugh.. you're killing me. ok, I'm typing this slowly perhaps that will help.

there is no question the issue is with the Onkyo NIC tcp/ip stack > the problem only occurs with certain routers/switches.
can you do anything about the Onyko NIC tcp/ip stack? > no >
check cable and/or purchase a new $35 switch > problem solved

you guys are making this a lot more difficult than it really is.
yes virginia, not all computer equipment communicates nicely with each other... not unlike us humans, eh?

p.s. relax..im just busting your balls. have a great day.
post #318 of 1815
Well for now I'm sticking with what I've got (front high and rear high speakers added to a typical 5.2 setup [two subwoofers]). Part of that decision is just because I spent about $125 in parts to run raceway to everything to make it look like a professional installation and the other part is simply that I'm tired and don't feel like pulling everything apart to make the change.

I do appreciate everyone's input! I get that not reading the manual thoroughly was my main problem! Also I apologize for coming across like a total noob! The only question I have now is what to do with my Kenwood VR5090 receiver which is a behemoth of a receiver if ever there was one!!

Thanks guys!

Chris R.
post #319 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolfpgh View Post

do you really believe this is microsoft and not embedded linux code?! *bop over the head*

If it were Linux code, this whole conversation would have been a lot shorter, because I'd have a copy of the source code running inside the 708 and 808. That's how the GPL works

I'm not saying it's Microsoft code. I was just pointing out an example.
post #320 of 1815
Hello, to all of you.
I've just change my Onkyo 701 with a 808 and i need some suggestion how setup my B&W 602: better normal or bi-amp?

And I don't understand the specs say that they are "Impedance: 8Ω (minimum 3.0Ω)" so I must select 6ohm not 4ohm, is it right?

Thanks for any suggestion

P.S.

Is it normal that my volume is above 45db to "hear" something???
post #321 of 1815
I am having a weird issue where the sound from my left and right surrounds drops out and I need to unplug the unit. This has happened several times. Any ideas?
post #322 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo.Kiwi View Post

Hello, to all of you.
I've just change my Onkyo 701 with a 808 and i need some suggestion how setup my B&W 602: better normal or bi-amp?

And I don't understand the specs say that they are "Impedance: 8? (minimum 3.0?)" so I must select 6ohm not 4ohm, is it right?

Thanks for any suggestion

P.S.

Is it normal that my volume is above 45db to "hear" something???

The ohm rating on the onkyo: 6 ohm setting is for all speakers 6 ohms and up. 4 ohm is for everything else. Not sure why it's worded like it is. My Boston acoustics (8ohm) are set to 6 ohm in the onkyo.


Regarding volume: I have to have mine cranked to the last 10-20% to get some real volume going. Its crazy! Very fine grained.
post #323 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by remedy1978 View Post

I am having a weird issue where the sound from my left and right surrounds drops out and I need to unplug the unit. This has happened several times. Any ideas?

Make sure no wires are touching. If everything looks good I suggest giving onkyo a call.
post #324 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo.Kiwi View Post

Is it normal that my volume is above 45db to "hear" something???

Yeah, that's normal. Decibels are logarithmic rather than linear, so you'll notice that things get louder much more quickly near the top of the volume range. I have my unit set to default to -40 dB on start up to prevent any surprises. I listen to most television at around -30 dB. Music at -20 dB.
post #325 of 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

Yeah, that's normal. Decibels are logarithmic rather than linear, so you'll notice that things get louder much more quickly near the top of the volume range. I have my unit set to default to -40 dB on start up to prevent any surprises. I listen to most television at around -30 dB. Music at -20 dB.

My volume is about -10dB more than yours, but I'm not worried about that just curious because I thought the 808 have more power than the 701.......I red your articles and yes watts doesn't matters but I can't always control my free thought

Could I ask an advice about front speaker if I want to change my B&W 602 S3??

Indiana Line Tesi 560 and Kef iQ70 Pros and Cons (my child dream was a couple of Kef Q9, but they are too much expensive and the new iQ90 too )
post #326 of 1815
need help..I have the 808 for a couple weeks now

I usually listen to it in all stereo mode..

problem I'm having is..when im watchin a show..or even ESPN, or ESPN News, or commericials..it will have a 1-2 second audio drop out. The main screen on the receiver blinks..and flips over to "dialog norm" then goes back..then the audio comes back.

Is this normal? I have them connected via hdmi cables. everything seems hooked up right. I just dont like the audio drop outs from time to time.

I have a HR22 Directv receiver..works fine. It just with the new 808..the"glitches" or audio hiccups while watching shows drives me crazy.
post #327 of 1815
You can turn your IntelliVolume setting up if you want to increase the volume sooner.

Receiver/Setup/Options 4,2

Do this for whichever source, active. Meaning, if you want it to effect BD/DVD source, have it "active"ly on before going into setup and changing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo.Kiwi View Post

Is it normal that my volume is above 45db to "hear" something???
post #328 of 1815
Hi,

I have my Onkyo 808 hooked up to an old CRT TV (Sony KV-36FS16).

I currently have Component Video as well as S-Video connected. I can see my DVD player as well as my Cable box via both these connections. The receiver is also powering my Polk Audio system (5.1).

If I hookup one of my laptops via S-Video in via GAME input, it shows up just fine. But, I have had no luck trying to get my PC IN to show up properly on my TV.

I read through the manual and found some information around "Monitor Out" settings. I changed it from HDMI to Analog. That doesn't seem to do the trick. The resolution is set to "Through" and I have tried changing that to 480p etc. But, no luck. I can see a totally distorted image on my TV screen. I have a Window 7 box, that I wanted to hookup but have had no luck.

I was wondering if anyone could provide me some pointers on what I could try?

Thanks...
post #329 of 1815
This should not matter Rich.
Mine has been changed from default and the 808 connects (connected out of box) without issue.
And also now, after firmware update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Do you use DHCP and what IP?

I ask because I use 192.168.100.100 as the base.
Just wondering if that matters.

Thanks,

Rich
post #330 of 1815
Can someone also post some pics of what this GUI looks like and how it operates?
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