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Nvidia GeForce GTX 460(GF104 GPU) supports full audio bitstreaming - Page 20

post #571 of 1812
Since this is being done through a driver upgrade what do you guys think is the chance they can or will allow this on an update for their Quadro line of cards?
Specifically the Quadro 3800? I paid a lot of money for this card to use it mainly for my work, CAD CAM, but it sure would be nice if I could get the losless HD Audio from it for Bluray over HDMI.

Is there any hope or should I just plan on buying the 460? How well would that work in the same box with a Quadro? Would it work at all? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin C.
post #572 of 1812
Quick question guys. I have a 460 768 with the beta 260 drivers installed, using an Avr 254 for a receiver. I snagged a Samsung bluray combo drive on a newegg sale last week, it came bundled with a version 8 something of powerdvd. When I get home I can look up the exact version. Bitstreaming works on the wolfman bluray, but its only showing dts on my avr. Is powerdvd 10 needed for dts hd to work?
post #573 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedo View Post

Quick question guys. I have a 460 768 with the beta 260 drivers installed, using an Avr 254 for a receiver. I snagged a Samsung bluray combo drive on a newegg sale last week, it came bundled with a version 8 something of powerdvd. When I get home I can look up the exact version. Bitstreaming works on the wolfman bluray, but its only showing dts on my avr. Is powerdvd 10 needed for dts hd to work?

From what I understand you need the LATEST PDVD10 MKII build 2113 in order to get HD bitstreaming..
post #574 of 1812
Yup, even PowerDVD 9 hasn't been updated for this card to bitstream (probably won't ever), and PDVD 8 never bitstreamed HD-disc audio.
post #575 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Coleman View Post

Since this is being done through a driver upgrade what do you guys think is the chance they can or will allow this on an update for their Quadro line of cards?
Specifically the Quadro 3800? I paid a lot of money for this card to use it mainly for my work, CAD CAM, but it sure would be nice if I could get the losless HD Audio from it for Bluray over HDMI.

Is there any hope or should I just plan on buying the 460? How well would that work in the same box with a Quadro? Would it work at all? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin C.

Does that card do any kind of HDMI audio at all? In any case, I wouldn't have any hope for it, cause you need the specific hardware to do it. The 460 could always bitstream, even with the older driver. This driver just makes it possible with commercial players and protected content.
post #576 of 1812
Thanks Andy,
Here is what it states on Nvidia website re the audio over HDMI.

Quote:


HDMI Support
Enables transport of video and audio to HDTV’s and other HDMI capable devices (via HDMI adaptor).



It also says this:

Quote:


NVIDIA® PureVideo® HD Technology
The ultimate high-definition movie experience on your PC by combining high-definition movie decode acceleration and post-processing on HDCP enabled platform, HDCP circuitry, and integration with HD movie players. It delivers superb picture quality for all video formats, as well as stunning HD DVD and Blu-ray movies—with low CPU utilization and power consumption.
post #577 of 1812
There are at least 3 "levels" of HDMI audio available with Nvidia cards. HD-disc bitstreaming has only been available since the 460. Not even the first batch of Fermi cards (480, 470, 465) can do it.

The two other "levels" are the first one, where you had to piggyback an SPDIF output (e.g. your motherboard's) into the HDMI output of the Nvidia card (I had a 8600GTS that did this). The second level was full 8-channel LPCM available in desktops since the GT210, 220 and 240, and in laptops since much earlier.

If your card does have an integrated HDMI audio device, it's probably on the second "level".
post #578 of 1812
Thread Starter 
Quadro FX 3800 is a GT200 GPU(previous generation GPU) that has no built-in audio processor in the GPU, it doesn't support 8 channel LPCM output, let alone HD audio bitstreaming.

You need to buy a GTX 460(GF104 GPU), GTS 450(GF106 GPU) or the upcoming GT 430(GF108 GPU) for HD audio bitstreaming support.
post #579 of 1812
I've been watching this thread closely and I have a question for Andy O and SamuriHL. I know bought of you had ATI 5xxx series cards and have/are experimenting with the new bit-streaming fermi cards. My question is, is the 460,450 ready for prime-time (driver support too) or should I hold tight to my 5770? I have a few little annoyances with my current setup and have been thinking hard about jumping to a Fermi based card in hopes that it would iron out a few things for me.

I'm using MediaPortal right now and I can do everything I want in it. I'm getting inconsistent color levels and lip-sync though and everything I've tried to fix it seems to fail. So this points to the one variable I haven't changed, the 5770 card.
post #580 of 1812
I can't give an objective opinion on that yet. I'm still struggling to get the 450 set up to my liking. TMT doesn't have bitstreaming support, but, PDVD10/WinDVD2010/ffdshow all work perfectly for bitstreaming. It's the video levels I'm struggling with. With DVE and Empre Strikes Back THX optimizer, if I set RGB (my tv no matter how I configure it will *NOT* accept YCBr) and limited (16-235) black levels in all video, even TMT, are perfect. I don't really get that one at all. However, blacks on the desktop are crushed. Setting it to 0-255 kills blacks in video but fixes it for the desktop. Very frustrating but I may have to learn to live with it. To be quite honest, I'm not sure this card brings anything more to the table than your 5770 does. Both have DX11, bitstreaming, and quirks. The devil you know, or the one you don't. That is the question you have to ask yourself. I suspect the black level issue is unique to my environment, but, it shows that no card is perfect for every situation.
post #581 of 1812
Thanks for the info guys. People on here seem to be more knowledgable than even the nvidia
Tech support I have talked too.

I guess I will have to add another card to my pc, but I can't give up the 3800 for work
Reasons, hopefully the two cards will play nicely together.
post #582 of 1812
Thanks for the info guys. People on here seem to be more knowledgable than even the nvidia
Tech support I have talked too.

I guess I will have to add another card to my pc, but I can't give up the 3800 for work
Reasons, hopefully the two cards will play nicely together.
post #583 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

I can't give an objective opinion on that yet. I'm still struggling to get the 450 set up to my liking. TMT doesn't have bitstreaming support, but, PDVD10/WinDVD2010/ffdshow all work perfectly for bitstreaming. It's the video levels I'm struggling with. With DVE and Empre Strikes Back THX optimizer, if I set RGB (my tv no matter how I configure it will *NOT* accept YCBr) and limited (16-235) black levels in all video, even TMT, are perfect. I don't really get that one at all. However, blacks on the desktop are crushed. Setting it to 0-255 kills blacks in video but fixes it for the desktop. Very frustrating but I may have to learn to live with it. To be quite honest, I'm not sure this card brings anything more to the table than your 5770 does. Both have DX11, bitstreaming, and quirks. The devil you know, or the one you don't. That is the question you have to ask yourself. I suspect the black level issue is unique to my environment, but, it shows that no card is perfect for every situation.

a couple of things to check:

1. plug into the hdmi1 port

2. if not using 'dvi pc' mode (under Source List menu), check that hdmi black level (under Picture Options menu) is set to 'low' (ignore if greyed out) and that 16-235 is set in nvidia control panel

3. see if YCBr will work with tv in 'dvi pc' mode
post #584 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post

a couple of things to check:

1. plug into the hdmi1 port

2. if not using 'dvi pc' mode (under Source List menu), check that hdmi black level (under Picture Options menu) is set to 'low' (ignore if greyed out) and that 16-235 is set in nvidia control panel

3. see if YCBr will work with tv in 'dvi pc' mode

I've done all of that and more. Nothing makes any difference. As soon as I change it from RGB it turns the screen green. Note...I did NOT have this problem with the AMD 4850 and my cable box, which is plugged in through the same Pio receiver, is using YCBr. So, I'm a little perplexed on this one. I've never had a problem with that tv accepting YCBr until this card. I will try plugging it directly into the TV later and see if that makes any difference. It's also possible I need to configure the Pio receiver, as well. I don't know yet.
post #585 of 1812
SamuriHL,

I have a 40b650 and a UN55B7100, both have a really similar menu system to your tv. What mode is the tv in? (Movie, Standard, Dynamic) or did you say you were using PC mode? I've noticed that if you select Movie mode all you menu options open up. Basically, using PC presets a number of options in you menus, but Movie mode allows you to setup a custom configuration. I never had a problem passing BTB and WTW to my b650, but I know for a fact, I'm not using PC mode.
post #586 of 1812
Samuri,

There's something very strange going on there. I know I don't have a 450 so perhaps something is messed up in the drivers for that card but I can tell you that with the latest drivers and 2xx cards (also the integrated graphics on a 730i/9300 system) that black levels in TMT are correct when set to 0-255. There's no BtB as you'd expect but video black (16) is correctly expanded to 0. I should have a chance to test PDVD tomorrow.

Also, I haven't tried YCC yet with these drivers. That always gave me problems in the past so I'll test that tomorrow too.

I'm going to order a 450 tomorrow. Need to know what's going on here for a number of reasons.

Just a thought, did you ever apply an EDID override on your system when you had the 4850 installed?

Really curious to know what happens when you connect directly to the TV or perhaps a different input on your AVR.

Wo0zy
post #587 of 1812
0-255 just doesn't work for me in video on any of the players. MPC-HC/PDVD/WinDVD/TMT...all give me messed up black levels. As soon as I change it to 16-235 all is perfect. I don't get it, either. I've had the exact opposite situation with my 5870. Anyway, I'll do some more testing this afternoon.

(P.S. no, no edid override on that machine ever, plus I used driver cleaner to get rid of the AMD driver stuff)
post #588 of 1812
ARGH. It's the receiver messing with the levels. Plugging it in directly all works fine. This is going to be a problem. sigh.
post #589 of 1812
are you using 1.3 or higher hdmi cables?
post #590 of 1812
Yes. 1.3a cables for everything. I got it though. By messing with the TV settings, I was able to get 0-255 and:

1) Consistent black across all players (PDVD/TMT/WinDVD/MPC-HC)
2) Consistent black across the desktop
3) Consistent black with my stand alone BD player

I never thought to check the stand alone BD player, but, it was giving the EXACT same levels as the 450 with 0-255. So, adjusting the TV for those levels works and is FINALLY consistent. WOO HOO! I am very psyched now.
post #591 of 1812
great news! what settings did you use on the tv itself?
post #592 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post

great news! what settings did you use on the tv itself?

OH man, too many to detail off the top of my head. It was a combination of brightness, backlight setting, black level to low, contrast, etc. I used THX optimizer on Empire Strikes Back to get me close and then DVE BD to fine tune it to dial it in properly. It's now set across everything perfectly. I wish I had checked the BD player before now. I don't use it. I got it free from work so that my wife could use it. (It's got an iphone dock and all that. She's psyched) Once I realized that it was the receiver causing this I decided to see if adjusting the TV to fix the levels would work. Sure enough, it fixed it for everything. That's what I get for buying a cheap receiver. Ah well, it's all good now. Everything is dialed in perfectly and looks great. I'm using CoreAVC for AVC decoding in my MPC-HC/ffdshow environment, dxva for VC-1, and EVR CP as my renderer. My MKV's look great and finally sound great since I can bitstream DTS-HD MA now. I'm very very pleased now.
post #593 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

OH man, too many to detail off the top of my head. It was a combination of brightness, backlight setting, black level to low, contrast, etc. I used THX optimizer on Empire Strikes Back to get me close and then DVE BD to fine tune it to dial it in properly. It's now set across everything perfectly. I wish I had checked the BD player before now. I don't use it. I got it free from work so that my wife could use it. (It's got an iphone dock and all that. She's psyched) Once I realized that it was the receiver causing this I decided to see if adjusting the TV to fix the levels would work. Sure enough, it fixed it for everything. That's what I get for buying a cheap receiver. Ah well, it's all good now. Everything is dialed in perfectly and looks great. I'm using CoreAVC for AVC decoding in my MPC-HC/ffdshow environment, dxva for VC-1, and EVR CP as my renderer. My MKV's look great and finally sound great since I can bitstream DTS-HD MA now. I'm very very pleased now.

Sweet.

Really felt it had to be a problem external to the HTPC based on what I've seen with these drivers but......

Nice one.

It does make you wonder what hell you had to do to get the 4850 to display correctly I'm guessing exposing the DR setting would've helped here. Can't believe ATI don't do this as standard for 4xxx cards. It's a crime!

Wo0zy
post #594 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

Sweet.

Really felt it had to be a problem external to the HTPC based on what I've seen with these drivers but......

Nice one.

Wo0zy

Yea, it really didn't make a lot of sense to me, either, since on the AMD cards generally using 0-255 gave the best results. And I've been told the same about the nVidia cards so it made no sense at all. Plugging in to the TV directly (like I had the 4850 until I got the receiver) gave me the levels I had with the 4850 and RGB. That's when I realized the receiver was messing stuff up. Lesson learned.
post #595 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Yea, it really didn't make a lot of sense to me, either, since on the AMD cards generally using 0-255 gave the best results. And I've been told the same about the nVidia cards so it made no sense at all. Plugging in to the TV directly (like I had the 4850 until I got the receiver) gave me the levels I had with the 4850 and RGB. That's when I realized the receiver was messing stuff up. Lesson learned.

Ok in that case I take back the edit to my last post. Damn CE devices

Still need to figure out what's up with the YCC setting (purely out of interest).

Wo0zy
post #596 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Yea, it really didn't make a lot of sense to me, either, since on the AMD cards generally using 0-255 gave the best results. And I've been told the same about the nVidia cards so it made no sense at all. Plugging in to the TV directly (like I had the 4850 until I got the receiver) gave me the levels I had with the 4850 and RGB. That's when I realized the receiver was messing stuff up. Lesson learned.

What receiver are you using? My onkyo has to have 3 separate settings set for it to pass full range. I have to set the Main HDMI menu option for resolution set to "Through" then the source HDMI menu option to "Source" and lastly set deep color (xvYCC) output to "Enabled". If I set it that way, the receiver doesn't clip colors, but not knowing your receiver, I'm not sure that any of this helps. Also, with some of the older Onkyo's if you had the receivers OSD set to enabled, it would clip BTB and WTW. Not sure if other companies are the same.

I have a Onkyo TX-NR3007 BTW.
post #597 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil4blue View Post

What receiver are you using? My onkyo has to have 3 separate settings set for it to pass full range. I have to set the Main HDMI menu option for resolution set to "Through" then the source HDMI menu option to "Source" and lastly set deep color (xvYCC) output to "Enabled". If I set it that way, the receiver doesn't clip colors, but not knowing your receiver, I'm not sure that any of this helps. Also, with some of the older Onkyo's if you had the receivers OSD set to enabled, it would clip BTB and WTW. Not sure if other companies are the same.

I have a Onkyo TX-NR3007 BTW.

Actually you're so right. I've lost count of the number of HTPC faults we've had reported that were actually caused by other equipment in the loop.

No reflection on Samuri. His fault finding was forward thinking but in many cases the natural instinct is to blame the PC when things go wrong

Having OSD enabled is a source of problems full stop! Not sure about the deep colour setting though..

Wo0zy
post #598 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

Ok in that case I take back the edit to my last post. Damn CE devices

Still need to figure out what's up with the YCC setting (purely out of interest).

Wo0zy

Yea, I'll look at that at some point when I have more time. I'm sure it's something to do with the new receiver, but, it has *NO* settings for the HDMI output at all. None.
post #599 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil4blue View Post

What receiver are you using? My onkyo has to have 3 separate settings set for it to pass full range. I have to set the Main HDMI menu option for resolution set to "Through" then the source HDMI menu option to "Source" and lastly set deep color (xvYCC) output to "Enabled". If I set it that way, the receiver doesn't clip colors, but not knowing your receiver, I'm not sure that any of this helps. Also, with some of the older Onkyo's if you had the receivers OSD set to enabled, it would clip BTB and WTW. Not sure if other companies are the same.

I have a Onkyo TX-NR3007 BTW.

Onkyo and I have, um, divorced. I have one sitting on my garage floor right now that no workie. Anyway, this is one of the new Pioneer VSX-820-K receivers. It's nice and has HDMI 1.4a for 3D and all that fun stuff, but, there's no options to tweak anything. In fact, in order to even get to the setup screen I had to connect it to component video. YUCK!
post #600 of 1812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

Actually you're so right. I've lost count of the number of HTPC faults we've had reported that were actually caused by other equipment in the loop.

No reflection on Samuri. His fault finding was forward thinking but in many cases the natural instinct is to blame the PC when things go wrong

Having OSD enabled is a source of problems full stop! Not sure about the deep colour setting though..

Wo0zy

I try to keep an open mind when troubleshooting. Sometimes I do tend to focus on the wrong part of the equation for too long before eventually getting to the root of the problem. That would be the case here because the nVidia card was the newest part of the equation. However, I didn't follow my own rule which is to take Henry David Thorough's advice...simplify simplify simplify. Start removing pieces of the equation. Hooking it up directly to the TV was the key part of that here. (Duh...why I didn't do that earlier I don't know). At least the problem was found and rectified.
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