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Official Vizio XVT3SV Series NO PRICE or Coupon talk - Page 153

post #4561 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitg33k View Post

...Thanks for the input! Are you referring to the adaptive Luma setting? Am I undertanding correctly, you are saying that Adaptive Luma = Gamma? I thought the Color settings corresponded to Gamma?...

Yes, Adaptive Luma.

Gamma is not the simplest concept, but is not too hard to understand. It has absolutely nothing to do with color directly; adjusting gamma will make any particular color darker or lighter, but will not adjust the chroma level or color phase in any way per se, although they could theoretically become unbalanced due to a gamma shift, just not likely in practice.

It only adjusts the luminance, and only can affect color due to that. It also adjusts luminance non-linearly. Brightness and contrast adjust luminance linearly. Turn up brightness and everything gets raised by a linear amount.

The only way I can describe it is if you first envision the scale of luma to be steps of gray on a graduated scale between black and white. A gamma shift will adjust all levels of gray, but non-linearly, meaning it will adjust some of the different steps on the scale up or down more than it will others. The closer to black or to white, the less adjustment, while the closer to the middle of the scale or 50% gray, the most adjustment. This means that a true gamma adjustment by itself will not adjust pure black or pure white at all, so will not mess with your preset black point and white point.

But the "Extend" setting adjusts gamma while also messing with white and black, which is why you need to set it first, and then set your brightness and contrast and backlight. It may give you the impression that the picture is shifted darker or lighter, but that is only because part of the picture actually is brighter or darker, just not the parts that are closest to 0 IRE or pure black and 100 IRE or 100% white.

True gamma allows you to give the impression of overall brightness change without moving the black and white points at all, which can make the picture more watchable without really making it brighter, and in the case of "Extend", can stretch the lower part of the gray scale to allow detail to pop out even if it is close to black or in the "pluge" section of color bars (the HDNet test pattern can be very helpful setting this using your brightness, contrast, and backlight), but all of this works best if you click "Extend" on first.

If you have a Mac, experiment with the gamma graph settings in the "Displays" system preference panel. Windows has something on the same order, but not as advanced. You can also play with these graphs in Photoshop or Elements from CS suites if you have those installed. That will give you a more intuitive understanding of gamma.

If the scale of brightness is graphed as a straight line on an X-Y axis it will be a straight diagonal line from left-bottom to top-right. Adjust gamma one direction or the other and the ends of the lines (representing pure black and pure white) never change, but the middle of the graphed line will either balloon up or sink down, turning into a curve, which is where we get the term "gamma response curve". Extend adjusts gamma to balloon the curve up, meaning what was once 50% gray will be more like 65 or 70% gray, and what once represented 0% to 5% gray now may represent 0 to 10% gray, which gives it the headroom to allow dark detail to resurface and pop out.

"Extend" also moves the ends of the graph to some extent (typically brightness will move both ends up or down in unison [everything gets brighter or darker linearly], while contrast will move one end up and the other down or vice versa in unison [whites get brighter while blacks get darker or the opposite], while the graphed line stays straight). "Extend" probably raises the low end and more than the high end, which is why it is not a pure gamma adjust but a combination of gamma and brightness and/or contrast.
post #4562 of 4768
so why is it that vizio still will not allow us to watch our own videos from a USB stick yet? There has to be a way to make this happen with or without vizio.
post #4563 of 4768
Just hook up any decent Blu-ray, especially ones with DLNA and you can do audio, video and pictures from USB, or a network. Really the way to go - and for under $100 the way to get the capability if you don't have it elsewhere - plus you can play Blu-ray discs too..
post #4564 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

Yes, Adaptive Luma.

Gamma is not the simplest concept, but is not too hard to understand. It has absolutely nothing to do with color directly; adjusting gamma will make any particular color darker or lighter, but will not adjust the chroma level or color phase in any way per se, although they could theoretically become unbalanced due to a gamma shift, just not likely in practice.

It only adjusts the luminance, and only can affect color due to that. It also adjusts luminance non-linearly. Brightness and contrast adjust luminance linearly. Turn up brightness and everything gets raised by a linear amount.

The only way I can describe it is if you first envision the scale of luma to be steps of gray on a graduated scale between black and white. A gamma shift will adjust all levels of gray, but non-linearly, meaning it will adjust some of the different steps on the scale up or down more than it will others. The closer to black or to white, the less adjustment, while the closer to the middle of the scale or 50% gray, the most adjustment. This means that a true gamma adjustment by itself will not adjust pure black or pure white at all, so will not mess with your preset black point and white point.

But the "Extend" setting adjusts gamma while also messing with white and black, which is why you need to set it first, and then set your brightness and contrast and backlight. It may give you the impression that the picture is shifted darker or lighter, but that is only because part of the picture actually is brighter or darker, just not the parts that are closest to 0 IRE or pure black and 100 IRE or 100% white.

True gamma allows you to give the impression of overall brightness change without moving the black and white points at all, which can make the picture more watchable without really making it brighter, and in the case of "Extend", can stretch the lower part of the gray scale to allow detail to pop out even if it is close to black or in the "pluge" section of color bars (the HDNet test pattern can be very helpful setting this using your brightness, contrast, and backlight), but all of this works best if you click "Extend" on first.

If you have a Mac, experiment with the gamma graph settings in the "Displays" system preference panel. Windows has something on the same order, but not as advanced. You can also play with these graphs in Photoshop or Elements from CS suites if you have those installed. That will give you a more intuitive understanding of gamma.

If the scale of brightness is graphed as a straight line on an X-Y axis it will be a straight diagonal line from left-bottom to top-right. Adjust gamma one direction or the other and the ends of the lines (representing pure black and pure white) never change, but the middle of the graphed line will either balloon up or sink down, turning into a curve, which is where we get the term "gamma response curve". Extend adjusts gamma to balloon the curve up, meaning what was once 50% gray will be more like 65 or 70% gray, and what once represented 0% to 5% gray now may represent 0 to 10% gray, which gives it the headroom to allow dark detail to resurface and pop out.

"Extend" also moves the ends of the graph to some extent (typically brightness will move both ends up or down in unison [everything gets brighter or darker linearly], while contrast will move one end up and the other down or vice versa in unison [whites get brighter while blacks get darker or the opposite], while the graphed line stays straight). "Extend" probably raises the low end and more than the high end, which is why it is not a pure gamma adjust but a combination of gamma and brightness and/or contrast.

Thanks for the explanation!

I still haven't had time to look into all this but setting Adaptive Luma to "Extend" does help the blacks somewhat. What I'm confused about are the color settings, what the heck does "Gain" and "Offset" refer to?
post #4565 of 4768
From this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Note: There is no industry-wide accepted terminology for gray scale controls. You may see RGB Contrast/Brightness, RGB Gain/Bias, RGB Gain/Offset, RGB Drives/Cuts. They all mean the same thing. Contrast, Gains, and Drives are for adjusting the bright end of the gray scale. Brightness, Biases, Offsets, and Cuts are for adjusting the dark end of the gray scale.

I hope this helps.

Mathematically, if the curve of output response vs. input signal is linear; gain usually refers to the slope of the curve (how much the input is multiplied by) while offset refers to moving the position of the entire curve along an axis (adding or subtracting a fixed amount from every point on the curve).
post #4566 of 4768
Hello all,
It's been some time since I've jumped into this forum but I would be remiss if I didn't based on my recent Vizio experience. I've watched this forum dissect the XVT553SV for about year now! As would be the norm for such a forum, most input is of the "constructive" nature running, the spectrum of emotions.
I love this set and didn't arbitrarily dive into it's purchase - and it hasn't been perfect by any means. I have enjoyed exploring and discovering all of the strengths and shortcomings of the set both pros and cons.
After procrastinating for 12 months, I finally contacted Vizio directly to get the ball rolling on an audio issue repair that many others have experienced. Initially, when the TV was new, I was a bit agitated having to wait up to two minutes to get sound, many times snapping and popping. My problem was consistent, happening 75% of the time. I decided to wait for a while pertaining to a warranty claim and I believe my patience paid off. Vizio was obviously hearing from a lot of customers about this issue and I believe they ultimately eliminated the problem.
I was very prepared when I contacted them - I had done everything I knew they would ask me if I had tried, thanks to the input from this forum! The tech I talked with immediately, without much questioning, put me in line for a service call to replace the primary board and processor. Within 7 days the part was shipped and installed by a very able couple of servicemen.
I was very pleased with the care they took with my set and they were literally there only an hour, mostly due to my numerous curiosity questioning. I can actually say that it was almost a "pleasant" experience! These guys, independents, we're very high on dealing with Vizio as well as complementary on their products.
So, for all you nay-sayers, just do your homework, prepare for your service call to Vizio and most importantly, be kind!
It may be my imagination but, I believe the set is better than before - definitely repaired!
This forum is a great asset! Keep up the good work! Thanks!
post #4567 of 4768
Sorry newbie here. been searching through the threads trying to find the cnet and isf settings for this TV. Just picked it up 11/28/11 from SAMS CLUB. Thanks in advance
post #4568 of 4768
Had this problem with my original 552 and now with a new 553.

When the TV signal has flashing lights, lightning, flashpots at concerts, even falling confetti, the picture "boxes" up horribly. Not just some minor boxy pixelation, but huge boxes.

I have gone back and forth trying to troubleshoot the cause with no success. It's the signal compression. It's the TV response rate. It's the DVR or HDMI cable. No luck.

My cable carrier is Wide Open West. The tech they sent couldn't find anything wrong. Very strong signal with no errors. They said pixelation may be due to a faulty DVR and replaced it. But this is the 3rd DVR I've had and it's still happening. (DVR is Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC.)

Also, I read elsewhere:

"Pixellation occurs when the bandwidth cannot keep up with the amount of data it is expected to carry. This is most frequently a signal compression issue rather than a television problem. You may have noticed it most severely in that fashion show because of all the flash photography. Most scenes, even those containing fairly rapid motion, have large areas that don't change as the picture goes from frame to frame. The areas that keep the same color and luminosity are amenable to high compression ratios. When you get a lot of flashbulbs popping, however, you need to rapidly refresh EVERY SINGLE PIXEL on the whole screen, and this requires much more data to be transmitted, more than the system can handle. So they deal with this by making the "pixels" bigger, and thus the pixellation."

This describes what I'm seeing, so the culprit again seems to be my incoming WoW signal. But is it a crappy, overly compressed signal or the TV's inability to respond quickly enough to the rapid changes?

I'm considering changing cable providers (unfortunately that would be Comcast) just to compare signals, but that could cost me.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Thanks
post #4569 of 4768
Do you have a blue ray player if it happens when playing BR video its the TV.
post #4570 of 4768
Hi folks - I was hoping that Vizio would be rolling out a new version of this (XVT553SV) TV that stayed the course with full array/local dimming, but that does not seem to be the case. It appears that Vizio's newly released models, that feature 3D, have taken a step backward in that they are only edge lit.

Is there something that prohibits the manufacture of 3D sets with full array backlighting?

Does anyone know if Vizio will be releasing a newer version of the XVT553SV
that includes full array/location dimming?

As always, thanks for any comments----
Greg
post #4571 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregN View Post

Hi folks - I was hoping that Vizio would be rolling out a new version of this (XVT553SV) TV that stayed the course with full array/local dimming, but that does not seem to be the case. It appears that Vizio's newly released models, that feature 3D, have taken a step backward in that they are only edge lit.

Is there something that prohibits the manufacture of 3D sets with full array backlighting?

Does anyone know if Vizio will be releasing a newer version of the XVT553SV
that includes full array/location dimming?

As always, thanks for any comments----
Greg

What, you mean like the XVT3D554SV??

http://www.vizio.com/led-lcd-hdtvs/xvt3d554sv.html
post #4572 of 4768
Actually, the latest version is the XVT3D556SV which was announced during CES 2011. The 556 was supposed to come out this December but as you can see it is a no show so far. It may be vapor ware.
post #4573 of 4768
Hi Obeck - I didn't realize the model you referenced (XVT3D554SV) was a newer version of the XVT553SV as they look almost identical on the Vizio site. I assumed a newer version would also mean a change in design, but I guess that didn't happen.

I sure would like to hear more about the XVT3D556SV that labk888 mentioned. Is there a press release on the 566?
post #4574 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregN View Post

Hi Obeck - I didn't realize the model you referenced (XVT3D554SV) was a newer version of the XVT553SV as they look almost identical on the Vizio site. I assumed a newer version would also mean a change in design, but I guess that didn't happen.

I sure would like to hear more about the XVT3D556SV that labk888 mentioned. Is there a press release on the 566?

here is the press release as posted at Engadget in June
http://m.engadget.com/default/articl...sic&postPage=1
post #4575 of 4768
I just saw posted elsewhere that at least some Vizio networked TV's were getting an update which added YouTube. Anyone seeing that update for the 553, or is it just the 3D TV's?

Marc

post #4576 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrandtx View Post

I just saw posted elsewhere that at least some Vizio networked TV's were getting an update which added YouTube. Anyone seeing that update for the 553, or is it just the 3D TV's?

Marc


I got it on both my, 553 and 554.
post #4577 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnerbum View Post

I got it on both my, 553 and 554.

what Version do you have in System Info now?
post #4578 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry ghost View Post

what version do you have in system info now?

553 c6.2.0_rc2

554 xp5.0.1.0-s
post #4579 of 4768
Anyway to force the TV to update the firmware or do I just have to way until it does it on it's own?
post #4580 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by sazaks View Post

Anyway to force the TV to update the firmware or do I just have to way until it does it on it's own?

It's only truly effective if it randomly updates in the middle of a football game when you have visitors over. Nothing says fourth and long and gonna go for it like the TV shutting off and flashing orange and white Vizio symbol.
post #4581 of 4768
Mine still hasn't updated yet. If they'd mailed out USB sticks instead, I probably would've gotten that by now.
post #4582 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregN View Post

Hi folks - I was hoping that Vizio would be rolling out a new version of this (XVT553SV) TV that stayed the course with full array/local dimming, but that does not seem to be the case. It appears that Vizio's newly released models, that feature 3D, have taken a step backward in that they are only edge lit.

Is there something that prohibits the manufacture of 3D sets with full array backlighting?

Does anyone know if Vizio will be releasing a newer version of the XVT553SV
that includes full array/location dimming?

As always, thanks for any comments----
Greg

I called Vizio yesterday because a friend is looking at TV's and likes the 553. I have not seen the 553 at Costco for some time now.

According to the CSR I talked to, the 553 has not been discontinued. It's a very popular set. Currently only Amazon and Sam's has them for sale on-line.

More are being produced and Costco should have product in the January - February timeframe according to Vizio.

So, if this information is correct, it has not been superceded by a new version, yet.
post #4583 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoman View Post

..."Pixellation occurs when the bandwidth cannot keep up with the amount of data it is expected to carry. This is most frequently a signal compression issue rather than a television problem. You may have noticed it most severely in that fashion show because of all the flash photography. Most scenes, even those containing fairly rapid motion, have large areas that don't change as the picture goes from frame to frame. The areas that keep the same color and luminosity are amenable to high compression ratios. When you get a lot of flashbulbs popping, however, you need to rapidly refresh EVERY SINGLE PIXEL on the whole screen, and this requires much more data to be transmitted, more than the system can handle. So they deal with this by making the "pixels" bigger, and thus the pixellation."

This describes what I'm seeing, so the culprit again seems to be my incoming WoW signal. But is it a crappy, overly compressed signal or the TV's inability to respond quickly enough to the rapid changes?...

The explanation you have quoted is correct up to the last line, which I have emphasized. It began as a great, scientific explanation, then sharply veered into the land of fairy tales. Pixels do not change size, firstly; if they could that would be a great and impossible magic trick, however useless. But there is an explanation.

What is typically referred to as pixellation is more correctly referred to by another colloquial term, which is "macroblocking". In MPEG-2, areas of the picture are divided into blocks 8 pixels wide by 8 pixels high, called macroblocks. In MPEG-4 they are dynamic and can be anywhere from 2x2 to 64x64 pixels, depending on the content and motion. These blocks of pixels are processed as individual units for motion vector efficiency reasons.

The above description indicates that when there is lots of activity, the bitstream can't deliver enough data to reconstruct all new pixels for each frame, and for consumer delivery that is correct, which is why temporal compression (use of P and B frames) is used, which allows a smaller bitstream to be used by representing not each pixel but the difference between pixels frame to frame. Compression ratios reach as much as 100:1 or 200:1, which means that 99 to 99.5% of the original data is discarded in compression; the fact that this can still normally result in good HD pictures is nothing short of remarkable.

So here is what is really going on:

When the MPEG decoder in your TV or STB is able to decode the streaming data at the display rate or above, everything looks great; each macroblock updates properly on each scan of the display.

When the data is partially missing or decoded too slowly (buffer underflow) what happens is some of the macroblocks do not update from frame to frame, but remain frozen on the screen awaiting the new data. You can think of them as "waiting for the bus", and when the "bus" does not arrive in time (no good data representing the new macroblock is available) they have to remain there frozen waiting for the next "bus" (the next frame with good data for that macroblock) to come along and refresh what that macroblock is supposed to be displaying, sometimes for many frames in a row. Its then a selective "freeze-frame', on a macroblock by macroblock basis; some are refreshed on time; some aren't and remain frozen. When a new, refreshed macroblock sits adjacent to a stale one (which is common) and there is motion, it creates a mosaic effect that delineates the hard edges of the macroblock which would otherwise be invisibly, seamlessly stitched together.

That is the pixellation effect you hear described, and is likely what you are seeing. It can be accompanied by another DCT distortion artifact called "mosquito noise" which makes hard edges look as if they are surrounded by a cloud of dust, sort of like PigPen in the "Peanuts" comic strip. If decoding slows enough, parts of or the entire screen is/are muted to black momentarily or permanently, on a macroblock by macroblock basis, creating an effect that is reminiscent of the old video game "Brickbreaker".

If you have poor reception macroblocking will typically be regular and not related to the amount of movement on the screen. If you have good reception and the macroblocking is only on high motion, that means the bit starving very likely occurred somewhere other than in your local MPEG decoder; more likely in compression for delivery or even in the original shooting and production.

Short answer, it is highly unlikely that this is a problem with your set, and very likely that you have now become accustomed to the sorts of new artifacts that digital delivery can bring, artifacts which we did not have with analog delivery (although those artifacts were usually a lot worse and degraded the picture quality constantly to some degree).
post #4584 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnerbum View Post

553 c6.2.0_rc2

554 xp5.0.1.0-s

Turned on the TV to watch the news last night and was presented with an update firmware screen (I've had firmware updates before, but was never given an actual screen). I have a 553 and this is what was listed on the screen:

Current Version:
MP-CFE-SF0713

Update Version:
MP-VIA2D-C7.0.1.0-S

VIZIO Dec1,2011

Not sure why it took 27 days to get the update, but everything seemed to update fine. Now if only they would provide some release notes so we know what is changed rather than hunting around the menus for 2 hours.
post #4585 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duston View Post

Turned on the TV to watch the news last night and was presented with an update firmware screen (I've had firmware updates before, but was never given an actual screen). I have a 553 and this is what was listed on the screen:

Current Version:
MP-CFE-SF0713

Update Version:
MP-VIA2D-C7.0.1.0-S

VIZIO Dec1,2011

Not sure why it took 27 days to get the update, but everything seemed to update fine. Now if only they would provide some release notes so we know what is changed rather than hunting around the menus for 2 hours.

Noticed the same thing this morning...

Good news is that Skype is now available on the Vizio Internet models. They appear to require a Vizio branded camera ($109) .... But I am hoping other cameras can be made to work (may require hardware assisted camera models).

In any event, they technically got this app in "this year" 2011 - even though it took all the way to very end of the year. But at least we have it, so not complaining too harshly. they also provided some other popular apps like Facebook and Twitter.

Glad to see they are still actively updating this set ... Only confirms how special this set was and still is since it was released. One of the "special" products to have been released by a manufacturer and should become a legend. Still giving the consumer the best bang for the buck... And so ahead of its time!
post #4586 of 4768
Does anyone have the correct code for programming a DirecTV remote for a Vizio XVT323SV? Setup procedure doesn't work with suggested codes and DirecTV CSR couldn't find an appropriate code.

Thanks,

Burt
post #4587 of 4768
I don't know what code I used, but the DirecTV remote works with my XVT373SV.
post #4588 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by keeferb View Post

I don't know what code I used, but the DirecTV remote works with my XVT373SV.

Interesting. If you remember how you set it up, please let me know.

Thanks,

Burt
post #4589 of 4768
I went into the DirecTV remote setup, and you're right there is no selection for either the 32 or 37 XVT models. So I'm not sure what I did. Did you try selecting the 47 or 55 XVT models to see if either of those work?
post #4590 of 4768
Quote:
Originally Posted by keeferb View Post

I went into the DirecTV remote setup, and you're right there is no selection for either the 32 or 37 XVT models. So I'm not sure what I did. Did you try selecting the 47 or 55 XVT models to see if either of those work?

Vizio remotes are all the same with the exception of the Bluetooth. I use my remote from my 32" on my 55", 20" remote on my 42" etc. So one of them should work.
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