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The "Official" TX-NR708 Owners Thread - Page 38

post #1111 of 1620
chs4000, I was talking about reference (accurate reproduction) not preference. Reference is not a matter of personal opinion. There are standards. Reference should be the starting point for every AVR, not some weird All Channel Stereo.
post #1112 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

chs4000, I was talking about reference (accurate reproduction) not preference. Reference is not a matter of personal opinion. There are standards. Reference should be the starting point for every AVR, not some weird All Channel Stereo.

Are you saying that the 708 defaults to All Channel Stereo for all stereo sources? Interesting.
post #1113 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by chs4000 View Post

Are you saying that the 708 defaults to All Channel Stereo for all stereo sources? Interesting.

Mine did.
post #1114 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrett View Post

I have a TX-NR708 and don't recall having the ability to log into Onkyo's database for live remote codes. I don't recall having that ability with my HT RC-180 either. It's a very nice feature if your planning to upgrade to newer components in the future, but isn't that why we need to update the firmware periodically?
Biggz

This is helpful, thank you cbrett.

With the 808 and above, when you enter the receiver setup and go to program your remote, one of the choices you have is to basically tell the receiver which equipment you have precisely, e.g. you tell it you have a Samsung + BD-C6900 blu-ray player, or a Sony + BDP-S1000ES. You can tell it the exact model number and it'll usually find it and give you better out-of-the-box functionality of your remote (better than the codes will provide), without having to use the learning function to learn the few buttons that the generic control codes didn't enable properly/fully. You must point the remote at the receiver, and the receiver then programs it. In setting these receivers up for my friends and family, I like giving them the ability to seamlessly set up their equipment now and especially in the future, when I'm not there to guide them through it. This feature helps with that especially as time marches on. A minor pity that the 708 doesn't have it. For this and other reasons, I think I'll be recommending the 808 at a minimum.

To the truly money-strapped, the HT-RC270 (basically a 708) should do. It's $100 less than the 708, the remote's the same, and it can learn. I'm finding some (most) people prefer the Onkyo remote, when set up properly, to others -- including Harmony remotes. As long as it has the Activity buttons, then it'll definitely do nicely for most setups.
post #1115 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Mine did.

Prob. has something to do with "Last Available" being the default.
post #1116 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by chs4000 View Post

This is helpful, thank you cbrett.

With the 808 and above, when you enter the receiver setup and go to program your remote, one of the choices you have is to basically tell the receiver which equipment you have precisely, e.g. you tell it you have a Samsung + BD-C6900 blu-ray player, or a Sony + BDP-S1000ES. You can tell it the exact model number and it'll usually find it and give you better out-of-the-box functionality of your remote (better than the codes will provide), without having to use the learning function to learn the few buttons that the generic control codes didn't enable properly/fully. You must point the remote at the receiver, and the receiver then programs it. In setting these receivers up for my friends and family, I like giving them the ability to seamlessly set up their equipment now and especially in the future, when I'm not there to guide them through it. This feature helps with that especially as time marches on. A minor pity that the 708 doesn't have it. For this and other reasons, I think I'll be recommending the 808 at a minimum.

To the truly money-strapped, the HT-RC270 (basically a 708) should do. It's $100 less than the 708, the remote's the same, and it can learn. I'm finding some (most) people prefer the Onkyo remote, when set up properly, to others -- including Harmony remotes. As long as it has the Activity buttons, then it'll definitely do nicely for most setups.

I was going to buy the HT-RC270 until I found the HT-RC180 new for an amazing price. Both are very good receivers. I must admit, although both the TX-NR708 and the HT-RC180 have the same WPC, I find the HT-RC180 to be more powerful. Maybe it's just me but it pushes my system effortlessly. The Onkyo remote is very easy to setup. I just wish I could get the PS3 to work. Then the setup would be perfect for me.
Biggz
post #1117 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Go to the "Setup" menu, select "5. Listening Mode Preset", select one of the inputs then set...

Analog/PCM > Stereo
Mono/Multiplex Source > Mono
2ch Source > Stereo
Dolby D/ Dolby D+/TrueHD > Straight Decode
DTS/DTS-ES/DTS-HD > Straight Decode
Other Multich Source > Straight Decode

Repeat with all the inputs you use. Switch the AVR to standby and then back on again for the settings to take effect.

"Straight Decode" is why anyone would want to have an AVR. Onkyo doesn't even mention it in the manual...

Many Thanks! I'll make the changes tonight when I get home from work.
post #1118 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by chs4000 View Post

With the 808 and above, when you enter the receiver setup and go to program your remote, one of the choices you have is to basically tell the receiver which equipment you have precisely, e.g. you tell it you have a Samsung + BD-C6900 blu-ray player, or a Sony + BDP-S1000ES. You can tell it the exact model number and it'll usually find it and give you better out-of-the-box functionality of your remote (better than the codes will provide), without having to use the learning function to learn the few buttons that the generic control codes didn't enable properly/fully. You must point the remote at the receiver, and the receiver then programs it.

Well the 708 works almost the same. You get to type in TOS and then search and Toshiba will pop up. You then get to enter a remote code and see if it works.

Not quite how you described but not bad nevertheless.
post #1119 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post


Go to the "Setup" menu, select "5. Listening Mode Preset", select one of the inputs then set...

Analog/PCM > Stereo
Mono/Multiplex Source > Mono
2ch Source > Stereo
Dolby D/ Dolby D+/TrueHD > Straight Decode
DTS/DTS-ES/DTS-HD > Straight Decode
Other Multich Source > Straight Decode

Repeat with all the inputs you use. Switch the AVR to standby and then back on again for the settings to take effect.

"Straight Decode" is why anyone would want to have an AVR. Onkyo doesn't even mention it in the manual...

I tried those settings and while playing a bluray movie on my ps3 I never get dolby hd when setring the movie to that audio. All i get is multichannel. Is that good or do I have a wrong setting on my avr or ps3?

When watching mkv files from my computer, it shows as dolby or dts depending on the sound code on the file.
post #1120 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmanuec View Post

I tried those settings and while playing a bluray movie on my ps3 I never get dolby hd when setring the movie to that audio. All i get is multichannel. Is that good or do I have a wrong setting on my avr or ps3?

Do you have an old PS3? Only the slim version supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream output over HDMI.

If you have an old fat PS3:
http://hd.engadget.com/2009/04/21/hd...with-your-ps3/

If you have a slim PS3:
http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...ings.html#1470
post #1121 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmanuec View Post

I tried those settings and while playing a bluray movie on my ps3 I never get dolby hd when setring the movie to that audio. All i get is multichannel. Is that good or do I have a wrong setting on my avr or ps3? When watching mkv files from my computer, it shows as dolby or dts depending on the sound code on the file.

Sounds like your PS3 is set to PCM. If yes, it is normal behavior of the receiver to show "Multich". It is processing normal, correct format - whatever the type. If you want the receiver to process the sounds instead of the ps3 (and therefor display on the receiver) you have to change the processing method on the source device, (e.g ps3.) to bitstream. Watch a blueray movie - then hit triangle button to access and change the ps3's a/v option. You should change the receiver's ps3 input to "straight decode" first.
post #1122 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post


Do you have an old PS3? Only the slim version supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream output over HDMI.

If you have an old fat PS3:
http://hd.engadget.com/2009/04/21/hd...with-your-ps3/

If you have a slim PS3:
http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...ings.html#1470

I got the slim version
post #1123 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post

Sounds like your PS3 is set to PCM. If yes, it is normal behavior of the receiver to show "Multich". It is processing normal, correct format - whatever the type. If you want the receiver to process the sounds instead of the ps3 (and therefor display on the receiver) you have to change the processing method on the source device, (e.g ps3.) to bitstream. Watch a blueray movie - then hit triangle button to access and change the ps3's a/v option. You should change the receiver's ps3 input to "straight decode" first.

So, you mean that even though its showing aa multichannel, it is actually at the sound option i selected on ghe blu-ray (dolby-hd) and the ps3 is decoding the audio signal? Which is the correct setup? Should I let my avr do the decoding instead of the ps3?

Thanks for all your help.
post #1124 of 1620
Why don't you read the links?
post #1125 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmanuec View Post

So, you mean that even though its showing aa multichannel, it is actually at the sound option i selected on ghe blu-ray (dolby-hd) and the ps3 is decoding the audio signal? Which is the correct setup? Should I let my avr do the decoding instead of the ps3?

Thanks for all your help.

Correct! Whatever the type of sound format the blueray disk is, the ps3 (in PCM mode) will process it normally and the receiver will accept it and pass it, naturally - but the display on the receiver in turn shows "Multich" instead of the format name.

I personally prefer my PS3 do the work. It's up to you. I don't need to see the format name on the receiver to know that the sounds being produced are accurate - I can hear it. Even though the PS3 is doing the processing, it doesn't mean that the onkyo doesn't do it's share of work. The onkyo does apply the other preferences you've set within the receiver, it just doesn't actually do the initial processing.

I figure let the PS3 do the heavy labor since it is designed/created to do Blueray playback. Having said that, it's its job and I think it might actually do a slightly better job processing the data. Also, having the PS3 do the processing means that the data on the blueray disk is being processed directly (handled once) - instead of it being handled twice (as in bitstream where the data is grabbed and sent to the receiver, and then handled a second time for processing).
post #1126 of 1620
I'm considering the Onkyo 708 or 808. Would appreciate the comments and opinions from those of you that have experience with them. I'm replacing a Pioneer VSX-1020. Bought a Yamaha RX-A1000 that I will be returning (nice receiver but not a fan of the OSD that shows up everytime you tweak volume).

Must haves include: 5.1 in my family room with powered Zone2 audio, HDMI 3D, iPod audio, Internet radio and DLNA. Nice to have's include 7.1 or 7.2 in family room (with Zone2 audio), Zone2 video, HD radio, iPhone internet app. ~ 100W per channel from my Pioneer and Yamaha has been more than enough. The 708 / 808 appear to meet all my 'must-have' specs - so the question is how well do these units actually perform.

Any quirks or problems?
Can you play iPod audio without a dock?
Is there an iPhone app that lets you control the receiver over wifi (great for use on the Zone2 patio)?
What's the better deal: 708 or 808

Thanks for your time.
post #1127 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartlenb View Post

I'm considering the Onkyo 708 or 808. Would appreciate the comments and opinions from those of you that have experience with them. I'm replacing a Pioneer VSX-1020. Bought a Yamaha RX-A1000 that I will be returning (nice receiver but not a fan of the OSD that shows up everytime you tweak volume).

Must haves include: 5.1 in my family room with powered Zone2 audio, iPod audio, Internet radio and DLNA. Nice to have's include 7.1 or 7.2 in family room (with Zone2 audio), Zone2 video, HD radio, iPhone internet app. ~ 100W per channel from my Pioneer and Yamaha has been more than enough. The 708 / 808 appear to meet all my 'must-have' specs - so the question is how well do these units actually perform.

Any quirks or problems?
Can you play iPod audio without a dock?
Is there an iPhone app that lets you control the receiver over wifi (great for use on the Zone2 patio)?
What's the better deal: 708 or 808

Thanks for your time.

I'm very happy with my 708; got it mostly for the connectivity, and have found it very versitile. Didn't think I would need the network features, but I probably use Pandora more than almost enything esle.

To clarify, it will give you 7.1 with *line-out* zone 2 (external amp), or 5.1 with *powered* zone 2.

iPod will play with onscreen album art (depending on iPod gen) and full remote control, through the usb port. There is a new control app, but I have no experience with it & can't point you to a link.

The 808 will give you over the 708: an extra listed 25w of power; upconversion via component as well as hdmi; zone 3; bi-directional remote setup; fold-out front panel. Whether it's worth the extra money will depend on your preferences.
post #1128 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post

I personally prefer my PS3 do the work. It's up to you. I don't need to see the format name on the receiver to know that the sounds being produced are accurate - I can hear it. Even though the PS3 is doing the processing, it doesn't mean that the onkyo doesn't do it's share of work. The onkyo does apply the other preferences you've set within the receiver, it just doesn't actually do the initial processing.

Most people can't so I'd recommend to send a bitstream (there is no processing) and let the AVR do the work. That's what it's built for. Furthermore, there are so many potential sources of error that it's always good to have visual feedback from the AVR.
post #1129 of 1620
I'm getting audio dropouts of a fraction of a second to a few seconds in duration, regardless of source. For example, I get them if it's OTA (antenna-->tv-->optical out-->receiver) or streaming video (Roku-->hdmi out-->receiver). I didn't get these with my previous receiver. So it seems unlikely to be an issue with anything other than the receiver itself. I'm still within the 30 day exchange period. Should I send it back, or is there something simple I should try that's known to rectify audio dropouts?
post #1130 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Ransom View Post
I'm getting audio dropouts of a fraction of a second to a few seconds in duration, regardless of source. For example, I get them if it's OTA (antenna-->tv-->optical out-->receiver) or streaming video (Roku-->hdmi out-->receiver). I didn't get these with my previous receiver. So it seems unlikely to be an issue with anything other than the receiver itself. I'm still within the 30 day exchange period. Should I send it back, or is there something simple I should try that's known to rectify audio dropouts?
Do you get these kind of dropouts only with a certain type of signal like Dolby Digital or regardless of signal type?
post #1131 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Do you get these kind of dropouts only with a certain type of signal like Dolby Digital or regardless of signal type?

I'm not sure how the Netflix stuff is encoded. The OTA stuff was Dolby Digital. The Netflix (Roku) output was being output as "all channel stereo" from the receiver (I haven't changed that default). I believe I've read that Netflix is going to add Dolby Digital encoding to its streaming content in the future, but it hasn't as of yet.
post #1132 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Ransom View Post

I'm not sure how the Netflix stuff is encoded. The OTA stuff was Dolby Digital. The Netflix (Roku) output was being output as "all channel stereo" from the receiver (I haven't changed that default). I believe I've read that Netflix is going to add Dolby Digital encoding to its streaming content in the future, but it hasn't as of yet.

Yes, Netflix is currently stereo only. Could you set your AVR to the values I've posted here and report back if that changed anything?

I'm experiencing intermittent audio with Dolby Digital TV streams but I'm not sure if it's AVR, the TV's receiver (connected via HDMI-ARC) or the stream itself.

P.S. You might want to try a different (shorter) HDMI cable too.
post #1133 of 1620
My setup mic has a felt cover on the mic itself... Is it supposed to be on there or is it supposed to be removed?... Thanks in advance...
post #1134 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemac View Post

You might have a bad mic, I had a similar problem and had to replace the mic. You might also try a factory reset to see if that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayb2006 View Post

Had the exact same problem can't figure it out either. Except I have normal no bi amp speakers.

I called Onkyo and they sent me a new mic under warranty and I ran Audyssey no problem. So if your mic isn't detecting speakers like mine was, try to get a new mic if your unit is still under warranty.
post #1135 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by NM 156 View Post

My setup mic has a felt cover on the mic itself... Is it supposed to be on there [...]?

Yes.
post #1136 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Most people can't so I'd recommend to send a bitstream (there is no processing) and let the AVR do the work. That's what it's built for. Furthermore, there are so many potential sources of error that it's always good to have visual feedback from the AVR.
No offense, but how do you know what "most people" can hear?
Besides, I didn't recommend it one way or another. Just provided detail about what it was doing, and then offered my own preference.
Also, what does "potential sources of error" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post
I figure let the PS3 do the heavy labor since it is designed/created to do Blueray playback. Having said that, it's its job and I think it might actually do a slightly better job processing the data. Also, having the PS3 do the processing means that the data on the blueray disk is being processed directly (handled once) - instead of it being handled twice (as in bitstream where the data is grabbed and sent to the receiver, and then handled a second time for processing).
When I allow the PS3 to do the work, the sounds are more lively. I hear the difference.
Does that mean the receiver isn't doing good? No, just that maybe the PS3 does it better.
post #1137 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

I'm very happy with my 708; got it mostly for the connectivity, and have found it very versitile. Didn't think I would need the network features, but I probably use Pandora more than almost enything esle.

To clarify, it will give you 7.1 with *line-out* zone 2 (external amp), or 5.1 with *powered* zone 2.

iPod will play with onscreen album art (depending on iPod gen) and full remote control, through the usb port. There is a new control app, but I have no experience with it & can't point you to a link.

The 808 will give you over the 708: an extra listed 25w of power; upconversion via component as well as hdmi; zone 3; bi-directional remote setup; fold-out front panel. Whether it's worth the extra money will depend on your preferences.

Thanks, appreciate the insight.

Found Onkyo's iphone control app - was released a week ago. Also found another app that you can buy that looks like it has a "few" more features.
post #1138 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post

No offense, but how do you know what "most people" can hear?

I generally don't trust the results of sighted listening. It has been shown numerous times that what we hear is strongly influenced by other factors than the physical properties of the sound at our ears. You'll find a couple of examples in Sean Olive's blog. For example this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post

Also, what does "potential sources of error" mean?

Software bugs, hardware bugs, user settings - the list of potential sources of error is endless. Anything that helps tracking down problems (like visual feedback from an AVR) should be valued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post

When I allow the PS3 to do the work, the sounds are more lively. I hear the difference.

Different isn't necessarily better. Maybe the PS3 or the AVR adds processing to the decoding process? I'd check the "Dynamic Range Control". By the way, another example why visual feedback can be helpful.
post #1139 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Yes, Netflix is currently stereo only. Could you set your AVR to the values I've posted here and report back if that changed anything?

I'm experiencing intermittent audio with Dolby Digital TV streams but I'm not sure if it's AVR, the TV's receiver (connected via HDMI-ARC) or the stream itself.

P.S. You might want to try a different (shorter) HDMI cable too.

Thank you for the suggestions!

Last night I tried the new settings, but unfortunately the problem persisted.

I'm trying the shorter cable today. It's a known-good 6' HDMI cable that worked flawlessly with my previous setup. I'll hopefully be able to post the results later tonight.
post #1140 of 1620
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I generally don't trust the results of sighted listening. It has been shown numerous times that what we hear is strongly influenced by other factors than the physical properties of the sound at our ears. You'll find a couple of examples in Sean Olive's blog. For example this one.

Well, whatever. I know the difference in sound(s), for example between Dolby and DTS. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to hear the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Software bugs, hardware bugs, user settings - the list of potential sources of error is endless. Anything that helps tracking down problems (like visual feedback from an AVR) should be valued.

And somehow that translate to mean that the AVR is error free, simply because it "displays" text on a display? meh That equates to dummy lights in cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Different isn't necessarily better. Maybe the PS3 or the AVR adds processing to the decoding process? I'd check the "Dynamic Range Control". By the way, another example why visual feedback can be helpful.

I think I've got DRC turned off on the PS3. You say "different isn't necessarily better", but in the context of our conversation - it is. My point. I'd rather the PS3 (a device made to decode) handle the data FIRST, directly from the disk, rather than having it handled TWICE and then processed. The less the data is handled, the better (IMO).

.
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