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ePVision PHD-VRX speculation thread - Page 6  

post #151 of 476
From the press release am I to infer the unit will launch without a "finished" EPG, and "incomplete" multimedia playback functionality, with those and maybe more advertised features "promised" for an unspecified later date firmware release?

When have I heard that before from a CEM?
post #152 of 476
Looking at the quick start guide, it seems that the VRX can't accept a 1080i input from either HDMI or component, and can't output 1080i to the HDMI port.
post #153 of 476
I'm glad to hear the PHD-VRX is finally about to be released. I hope it has a very good ATSC tuner that is not subject to amplification issues like the CM7400. The previous epVision boxes all had very good tuners with no problems using a preamp. And hopefully it will indeed have 2 RF inputs as indicated such that you can successfully integrate OTA antenna and cable connections without having to use an A/B switch. Similar to TiVo. Or possibly even connect 2 different antennas if necessary. But will it eventually use an internet connection for EPG, or is it PSIP only?
post #154 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

Looking at the quick start guide, it seems that the VRX can't accept a 1080i input from either HDMI or component, and can't output 1080i to the HDMI port.

Let's hope the product and the documentation are disconnected from each other. I miss the 480i also. ED but no SD? Not logical. If it truly can't accept or send 1080i some will be returned.
post #155 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post


Let's hope the product and the documentation are disconnected from each other. I miss the 480i also. ED but no SD? Not logical. If it truly can't accept or send 1080i some will be returned.

I'd have to believe it uses the same chipset as the 8VX, which does 1080i and despite the documentation, can do 480i over both component and HDMI.
post #156 of 476
From what I read on outputs hdmi and composite only I would have to purchase a newer tv for the living room to use.

Got two it would work with in camper or bedroom. Living room tv has component only.

Do they make a hdmi to component converter I could also use an component to hdmi converter on the old tv......And the surround system
post #157 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by smintn View Post

Do they make a hdmi to component converter...

Search for HD-Fury. There may be others that are less expensive, but depending on your TV (especially if it's an older Mits RPTV) the HD-Fury may be the only device that will work properly with it.
post #158 of 476
I just got a respond back from the sales.

Price will be $229, pre-reg coupon will be $30. They will have it available soon. I hope this can replace my Tvix 6620N when it comes to recording.
post #159 of 476
With the coupon, it come in at $200, that will end up being a pretty good price as long as they don't get wild with some ridiculously high shipping charges.
post #160 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

With the coupon, it come in at $200, that will end up being a pretty good price as long as they don't get wild with some ridiculously high shipping charges.

Maybe they will have some good prices on USB hard drives.

Two more wall warts will need a home also.
post #161 of 476
Thread Starter 
The big problem I see is coming up with the right solution for a HDD. Not the drive itself, but the interface and PS. The following are all non enclosure examples.

I have spent a couple of hours reading reviews on Amazon & eBay for these SATA to USB "adapters" and I can't beleive how many have had the PS smoke, burn out, melt etc.!
I don't know if it is the supply itself, the cable, user error (can't be all of them if so), but it's a real problem with more than one product. These were all separate adapters, no enclosure that I was looking at with some hope something could be modified to fit the drive inside their enclosure (though that doesn't look likely).

Something as cheap as these (w and w/o PS);
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-IDE-...-/190399539917
http://www.amazon.com/USB-2-0-SATA-C...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

To something as bad as this (about the worst rating I have ever seen on Amazon);
http://www.amazon.com/HDE-SATA-Drive...owViewpoints=1

At the other extreme, one of the best ratings;
http://www.amazon.com/Cables-To-Go-3...cm_rdp_product

A thread in a PC forum addresses issues with these adapters;
http://www.pcmech.com/forum/computer...a-adapter.html

What I don't understand how products like thse can work. Where is the 12v power coming from for the HDD? A 5v USB bus??;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...20120322061328
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812191161
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo
post #162 of 476
Updated response from sales support told me the VRX box will use a Nutune dual tuner, which is supposed to be a very good tuner for ATSC OTA reception. I believe the previous 8VX box may have also used a Nutune tuner, and it indeed was a very sensitive tuner.
post #163 of 476
Has anyone received their discount coupon yet? I registered a few years ago when I sent in my suggestions, I am not sure if there is any way to check and see if that is still valid.
Also, I am not very well informed on computer accessories. Would something like this http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hard-Drive...sures/15222296 be what is needed to attach to the product?
post #164 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister B View Post

Has anyone received their discount coupon yet? I registered a few years ago when I sent in my suggestions, I am not sure if there is any way to check and see if that is still valid.
Also, I am not very well informed on computer accessories. Would something like this http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hard-Drive...sures/15222296 be what is needed to attach to the product?

Speculation: that would be a possibility. I have a Seagate FreeAgent 1TB that worked with my ZAT/BV-980H. I have not used either device in months.

It has an external power supply and USB cable. It was designed as a backup device.

As for the coupon issue, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe there will be a new web page & pictures.

I sent a wish too: allow clock to be off when the unit is in standby. I have enough clocks. Who knows.
post #165 of 476
Thread Starter 
1. The holdup is Internet related issues (more or less),
2. There is no full manual available as of now, not even a 'rough' copy,
3. The unit has been tested with various external USB adapters and/or enclosures, but no recommendations will be listed,
4. It will use a detachable AC power cord, no outboard PS (brick),
5. It will format a HDD using EXT2, it will read NTFS drives in a PC,
6. This will have the ability to connect to the NTP (Network Time Protocol) server via the Internet for the time reference if your local station(s) are incorrect or have issues keeping the correct time (as many seem to be);
http://www.ntp.org/
7. It will have the ability to let you choose which source it uses for time reference. It is recommended that it be left on the local setting,
8. CC data will not be recorded. You can view CC when watching the program live, but to conserve space, CC is striped when the program is recorded. I stated I feel this will be a problem for some and they are aware it may be a concern for some,
9. The DVR does have the ability to record the full TS of the station: the Main channel and all sub-channels, including CC data, but this won't be implemented as of now,
10. Coupons should be issued when it is available for sale.

The time feature is new as I haven't seen/heard of this being mentioned before. This came as a welcome surprise. They are aware of the problems certain DVR's have with keeping the correct time due to local stations clocks being incorrect. The above should solve this.
post #166 of 476
Thread Starter 
Mister B; If you go back a page, I provided links for a few enclosures;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21735951

I have read problem with the new USB3 though this will only be USB AFAIK, so there might not be any issue with a USB3 enclosure, but I would think twice before getting one.
post #167 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

1. The holdup is Internet related issues (more or less),
4. It will use a detachable AC power cord, no outboard PS (brick),
5. It will format a HDD using EXT2, it will read NTFS drives in a PC,
6. This will have the ability to connect to the NTP (Network Time Protocol) server via the Internet for the time reference if your local station(s) are incorrect or have issues keeping the correct time (as many seem to be);
http://www.ntp.org/
7. It will have the ability to let you choose which source it uses for time reference. It is recommended that it be left on the local setting,
10. Coupons should be issued when it is available for sale.

4. That's nice.
5. No so nice, but not bad. I guess writing to a PC with NTFS is a no go.
6. Internet time is on the CM-7400 and TViX. Without a PSIP you need a manual time setting.
7. Local time has a bad reputation if you are saying OTA PSIP.
10. So much for Q1.

Just another day in paradise.
post #168 of 476
Using the network time setting is considered "best practice" on the TViX, as it causes the box to completely ignore PSIP time data, which in turn prevents faulty station clocks from breaking your timers.

The biggest complaint I saw regarding the DTVPal when I researched it was that all of the "alternative" clock settings were subordinate to the PSIP data, meaning that a station's time would always override the manual clock if PSIP time was available at all. The TViX doesn't have this problem, and the PHD-VRX will have to work the same way to be successful. You can also set the TViX clock manually or by selecting a single station with reliable time data, but since using the network option is essentially 100% reliable, there's no reason to use the other settings.

It's too bad that this box seems to be doing some proprietary fiddling with the recordings. The TViX records the station TS without alterations. Although it shares the PHD-VRX's inability to use CC data, it's still possible to extract the captions from the TS file and place them as a SRT on the DVR's HDD, and then the captions will work. If the PHD-VRX is going to strip the CC data from the file completely, then even that method won't work.
post #169 of 476
If it uses the ATSC PSIP time signal, I would think it would have to be able to "lock" onto one, specific channel's time (my old, later firmware, DTVPal CECB does that. In fact, I'm using it presently, and the time is the same across all channels).

I'd still feel a heck of a lot more secure, personally, if it had manual time setting to always be able to fall back on.
post #170 of 476
Having a reliable clock was one of my prerequisites for buying a DVR at all. If the box is going to randomly update its clock incorrectly and record the wrong show, it's better to just keep using a VCR. At least those work. I'm glad to have a manual clock setting as a fallback option, but thus far I've had no problems using network time. Hopefully the PHD-VRX will respect the user option for time retrieval and not try to use faulty PSIP time as a last resort for updating its clock.
post #171 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

It's too bad that this box seems to be doing some proprietary fiddling with the recordings. The TViX records the station TS without alterations. Although it shares the PHD-VRX's inability to use CC data, it's still possible to extract the captions from the TS file and place them as a SRT on the DVR's HDD, and then the captions will work. If the PHD-VRX is going to strip the CC data from the file completely, then even that method won't work.

Strange. My TViX makes .tp files. The BV-980H makes .ts files. I understand there are conversion programs. Must be some setting I have wrong.
post #172 of 476
Files with TP and TS extensions are both MPEG-2 Transport Stream dumps. Nobody seems to know why the TP extension exists, but it's the same thing. The difference may lie in some of the file header information, which could be verified through a file comparison.
post #173 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Files with TP and TS extensions are both MPEG-2 Transport Stream dumps. Nobody seems to know why the TP extension exists, but it's the same thing. The difference may lie in some of the file header information, which could be verified through a file comparison.

That makes sense. Thanks for the info.
post #174 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

8. CC data will not be recorded. You can view CC when watching the program live, but to conserve space, CC is striped when the program is recorded. I stated I feel this will be a problem for some and they are aware it may be a concern for some,
9. The DVR does have the ability to record the full TS of the station: the Main channel and all sub-channels, including CC data, but this won't be implemented as of now.


Their decision not to recorded CC for anyone who wants or needs CC to be displayed, is idiotic! If certain people need or want CC while viewing something live, it is also almost certain that they will want or need it being available to see in a recording also.
post #175 of 476
Thread Starter 
Quote:


7. Local time has a bad reputation if you are saying OTA PSIP.

Which is why they have the option of Internet based time.
Quote:


It's too bad that this box seems to be doing some proprietary fiddling with the recordings. The TViX records the station TS without alterations. Although it shares the PHD-VRX's inability to use CC data, it's still possible to extract the captions from the TS file and place them as a SRT on the DVR's HDD, and then the captions will work. If the PHD-VRX is going to strip the CC data from the file completely, then even that method won't work.

I tried to get an explaimation of this, but it left me confused.
First off, just how much savings doe stripping CC actually save?? I can't imaging it would be very much. I remember some other recorder (Maggie/Funai ?), recording the entire broadcast stream including sub-channels, which seems to be a colossal waste of space. He stated the deck does have the ability, but isn't implemented. I asked about just allowing CC, but he said it wasn't that easy.

Chime in here on what he was talking about if you know.
Quote:


I'd still feel a heck of a lot more secure, personally, if it had manual time setting to always be able to fall back on.

I didn't ask but will, nor did he bring up the subject.
Quote:


Their decision not to recorded CC for anyone who wants or needs CC to be displayed, is idiotic! If certain people need or want CC while viewing something live, it is also almost certain that they will want or need it being available to see in a recording also.

How much "space" is actually saved w/o CC?
post #176 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Which is why they have the option of Internet based time.I tried to get an explaimation of this, but it left me confused.
First off, just how much savings doe stripping CC actually save?? I can't imaging it would be very much. I remember some other recorder (Maggie/Funai ?), recording the entire broadcast stream including sub-channels, which seems to be a colossal waste of space. He stated the deck does have the ability, but isn't implemented. I asked about just allowing CC, but he said it wasn't that easy.

Chime in here on what he was talking about if you know.I didn't ask but will, nor did he bring up the subject.How much "space" is actually saved w/o CC?

I'll have the numbers in an hour. I have two different DVRs that work with digital CC.

It's not easy to have digital CC. If it was easy everyone would do it and have a button on the remote (like my Sony TV).

It can't be a space/storage issue. That would be insulting considering the recorder doesn't come with any.
post #177 of 476
Thread Starter 
CC or lack of is no issue for me, but I'm sure it is for others.
post #178 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

CC or lack of is no issue for me, but I'm sure it is for others.

Me neither. It took me 15 minutes to figure out how to enable it. I did learn the CC1 is English and CC2 is Spanish.

CBS 1080i 9:00 to 9:15 needed 1.840Gb without CC1. 9:30 to 9:45 was 1.808Gb. DD2.0 commercials could explain the difference. Source was cable, not OTA.

Rounding off, I have found 10Mbs for 480i digital and 20Mbs for 1080i. My external WD disk drive seems to run at 18Mbs. I found one hour of 1080i MPEG-2 needs about 8Gb as a .ts file. Just some info.
post #179 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I asked about just allowing CC, but he said it wasn't that easy.

Chime in here on what he was talking about if you know.I didn't ask but will, nor did he bring up the subject.How much "space" is actually saved w/o CC?

I think I may have an idea of where the problem lies. First, MPEG-2 video can be delivered in one of two ways, either through a Program Stream or a Transport Stream. The PS format is used for reliable data delivery methods, like DVD, where errors aren't likely to occur. The TS format is essentially a wrapper that's placed around multiple PS files and gives them robust error correction so that they can be broadcast over the air and still play with a reasonable level of reliability.

The PHD-VRX is likely being designed to strip the individual PS you want to watch out of the TS wrapper, rather than saving the entire TS. The benefit of this would be a potential reduction in file size of maybe 20% at most, or a little over 1 GiB saved per hour of recording time. The downside is that closed captions contained within the MPEG-2 Picture User Data are probably part of the TS, so removing the wrapper to save space also strips the captions. As such, Allan's response was probably just worded poorly. It's not that the PHD-VRX strips captions to save space; it strips the TS wrapper to save space, and the captions are a casualty of that process.

The only ways to fix the problem would be to either record the raw TS and not save any space or to rip the PS and CC data from the TS at the same time and save the captions to an SRT file automatically.

It may also be worth noting that the storage of PS data may be more problematic in another area, depending on how it's implemented. The robust error correction in the TS wrapper is what allows the picture and audio to resume perfectly synchronized after a momentary drop in signal strength or other transmission error/interference causes a program to have brief audio/video errors.

Without the error correction provided by the TS wrapper, the show would likely have serious A/V desynchronization after any interruption to its broadcast signal. If the PHD-VRX doesn't save the full TS data, it will need to be designed carefully to make sure that it's saving the PS data correctly. If it doesn't, it could potentially be saving corrupt files, and a DVR that saves desynchronized (but small!) files isn't going to be very popular. This is one of those times where controlled laboratory test conditions don't really help much. Hopefully this DVR will be tested in areas with poor reception to ensure that it still records shows correctly.
post #180 of 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

The only ways to fix the problem would be to either record the raw TS and not save any space or to rip the PS and CC data from the TS at the same time and save the captions to an SRT file automatically.

You obviously have far more knowledge of this issue than I do. I can only understand 50% of your post, and that is probably because I have the PViX and BV-980H. I had a CM-7400 for a few hours too.

But, and it's a real big but, I want to record HD 5.1 Leno tonight. I want to playback that recording tomorrow without any interaction with file types, protocols, or hardware issues. I wish there was a way to get that done without an EPG or really cool manual recording features, but that seems unlikely.

You can call me a consumer that wants a toaster with an accurate clock. If it works reliably, I'll take the toaster. It has a niche. So does my VCR-like Magnavox. In fact, all my stuff has its own niche, even my TiVo. I can't think of any device that makes everybody happy all the time. I do thank you for your information and hope to learn from it.
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