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52ex700 => 55le8500 => 55hx800 => ??

post #1 of 25
7/15/10 at 12:54pm
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone,

So I need some advice. After holding off getting a new TV last year, I decided to pick one up early in the year. I first started off with a Sony 52EX700. Great color representation and "decent" black levels for an edge LED, however I wasn't pleased with the screen uniformity, light bleed, etc..

After returning the Sony, I went and picked up the LG 55LE8500. It is an absolutely BEAUTIFUL TV. Everything from aesthetics to PQ. Simply one of the best pictures I have ever seen. However, for all the heaven, there is a hell. As much as I truly wanted to keep this set, the banding was just too much for me to overlook and was increasingly frustrating every time I saw it (every light colored scene when the picture panned vertically). It is very annoying IMO. An LG tech even came out to look at it and there was nothing that he could do about fixing it. It's the way the IOP panel is designed. Second nail in the coffin for me was as black as the picture was (and I mean BLACK), the screen is a highly reflective pane of glass. Unfortunately, what good are absolute blacks if it means I will just see every reflection in the room?

Moving on. Returned the LG and BBY was offering a package deal for the Sony HX800. Decided to give it a try. Much better blacks than the EX, great color, image processing, etc (though not nearly as good as the LG). Still has an issue with screen uniformity though & some "clouds" on a black screen. Not as much of an issue as the 3D.. Extremely disappointed. Your head needs to be completely static. Tilt your head +/-3 deg off center and the image either turns blue or red (left / right) and you will get significant crosstalk. Additionally, you can't lean your head back on a headrest without placing the glasses on the tip of your nose (otherwise you'll be looking under the glasses frame).

In the end, I am torn on what I should pick up now. Tentatively leaning towards last years LG 55LHX (direct LED w/ 240 dimmable zones), no banding, etc., although no internet & unsure of power consumption since I will have to plug in the TV and wireless box.

Any other suggestions??? Fairly bright room, seating dist. 10ft, would like to stay away from plasma if possible (power consumption, image retention, fading blacks, etc..).
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post #2 of 25
7/15/10 at 1:17pm
Seriously considering the LG as well, I think the reflective screen I could live with as the windows in my room are at 90 degrees to the screen so no direct light from windows would be on screen. Did you have light coming directly from windows on screen or did it matter?

Also still trying to find out if banding would be present watching hockey or football, I guess probably not as whole screen would not be a solid color in either case. Would you know? thanks.

Your only other option might be the Sony 909 or a Samsung C8000.
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post #3 of 25
7/15/10 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digmor crusher View Post

Seriously considering the LG as well, I think the reflective screen I could live with as the windows in my room are at 90 degrees to the screen so no direct light from windows would be on screen. Did you have light coming directly from windows on screen or did it matter?

Also still trying to find out if banding would be present watching hockey or football, I guess probably not as whole screen would not be a solid color in either case. Would you know? thanks.

Your only other option might be the Sony 909 or a Samsung C8000.

You will get reflections with the LG if you have ANY amount of ambient light, and any direct incident light is even worse. When the screen has a darker image on a part of it, you WILL see reflections irrespective of whether you have light sources shining directly on the TV.

As far as the banding goes, you will see it occasionally on light color backgrounds, but the issue is not that big of a deal compared to the reflective screen, unless you always view the TV in a dark room. I haven't seen any banding effect while watching the soccer world cup, but there is the problem of slightly uneven uniformity of backlight intensity across the screen, resulting in some areas of the screen appearing ever so slightly darker or lighter than others. But I don't think average users wouldn't detect the uniformity or banding issues.

FYI, I have the 47LE8500.
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post #4 of 25
7/15/10 at 1:44pm
Thread Starter 
My windows were not directly behind me. They are 90 and 45 deg on the left of the screen. It is something that I can control better if I ended up keeping the set (drapes, blackout blinds, etc..), but it is truly like looking into a black glass mirror.

It's the banding that did it in for me. Reflections I can overcome. Football & baseball might not be an issue (until the picture panned up to the sky). I cannot give any input as I did not watch hockey when I had the TV. I wish I had taken pictures of it to give you a better idea. There is just a separation on colors in block format across the lighter colors on the screen (more apparent on the sides).

I can only hope that I see a post on the XXLE8500 forum that there is a firmware release that can somewhat "help" the issue. Unfortunately, my tv received both firmware updates (v5.X and v6.X) before I returned it and it did not correct the issue.

If you're thinking about it, pick one up from BBY try it out for 30 days. If you like it, return it before the grace period is up and then get it significantly cheaper on Amzn.
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post #5 of 25
7/15/10 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by triathlete17 View Post

In the end, I am torn on what I should pick up now.

Any other suggestions???

I'm not happy with any of this years TV's either due to design (glass panels), problems (banding), or price (HX909). So.... I have decided to take the inexpensive route. I'm looking at the Sony 60EX500, Sharp LC-60E88UN, LG 55LX90, Vizio 552XVT. The Sharp and Sony are the top of the list and I want to pay less than $2K. There's still an odd chance that I'll end up with the HX800 or the 909, but I'm not betting on it. The inexpensive route is so I can see how 3D plays out and other advances in the coming years. In particular if Panasonic makes good on their attempts to implement Kuro tech in their plasmas.

I ruled out the 55LHX as I don't want the set-top box. Seriously don't want another box in the living room as trivial as that may seem. That's probably the best "inexpensive" TV you can find right now, but if you want one you'll need to act very soon.
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post #6 of 25
7/15/10 at 2:03pm
yeah the banding on the le8500 is a killer because the PQ on this set is supposely amazing. Reflection is worrying me. My HT room is in the basement and I have 2 window right in front of the TV. They are small windows and I have some store that I can close if needed but still, why would they make a screen so reflective like that ?

I might still drop by a store and see the banding for myself.

As for the OP, well the only TV left for you would be Sony's HX909 (very expensive, too expensive if you ask me) and maybe the samsung C8000 as someone else mentionned.
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post #7 of 25
7/15/10 at 2:19pm
The recently tested Sony 52NX800 is now the top rated LCD tested by Consumer Reports and had no serious down-sides in their tests. I would be looking at the 52NX800 seriously.
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post #8 of 25
7/15/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

I'm not happy with any of this years TV's either due to design (glass panels), problems (banding), or price (HX909). So.... I have decided to take the inexpensive route. I'm looking at the Sony 60EX500, Sharp LC-60E88UN, LG 55LX90, Vizio 552XVT. The Sharp and Sony are the top of the list and I want to pay less than $2K. There's still an odd chance that I'll end up with the HX800 or the 909, but I'm not betting on it. The inexpensive route is so I can see how 3D plays out and other advances in the coming years. In particular if Panasonic makes good on their attempts to implement Kuro tech in their plasmas.

I ruled out the 55LHX as I don't want the set-top box. Seriously don't want another box in the living room as trivial as that may seem. That's probably the best "inexpensive" TV you can find right now, but if you want one you'll need to act very soon.

I might have to take the cheap route as well if I feel the problems on the 8500 are too much for me to handle. possibly thinking of the Sharp 52 inch 810 as my cheaper option, supposedly nice bright, sharp picture, not too bad for flashlights, but colors are hard to calaibrate correctly.
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post #9 of 25
7/15/10 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by digmor crusher View Post

I might have to take the cheap route as well if I feel the problems on the 8500 are too much for me to handle. possibly thinking of the Sharp 52 inch 810 as my cheaper option, supposedly nice bright, sharp picture, not too bad for flashlights, but colors are hard to calaibrate correctly.

Thanks for the inputs everyone. The Sharp 810 crossed my mind, but again its a very reflective screen & edge lit. I would prefer local dimming (or at least edge w/ dynamic like the c8000 or hx800 even though it still has some drawbacks).

The Sony 900 has a lot of qualities but the cost is insanely high. ($3k or just over is my limit). That and the 3D capabilities have a long way to go IMO after getting the HX800.

Looks like I will try the 55LHX since the BBY near me has one in stock. If I'm disappointed, maybe I will cut my losses and get an inexpensive set until next year. That or wait until Aug / Sept for the new Vizio Pro models...?
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post #10 of 25
7/15/10 at 8:39pm
you've got your symbols backwards...

(52EX700 is NOT greater than or equal to 55hx800)
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post #11 of 25
7/16/10 at 3:39am
triathlete17, thanks for your contribution. So in your opinion, the LE8500 has better picture quality than the HX800 (despite of banding, reflections,..)? I was hesitating whether to get the HX800 or the LE8500, finally, tired of waiting I purchased the LG and I'm very happy with it but I haven't seen the HX800 yet.
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post #12 of 25
7/16/10 at 6:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz01 View Post

you've got your symbols backwards...

(52EX700 is NOT greater than or equal to 55hx800)

Didn't mean for them to be greater than symbols. Read my original thread. I meant for them to look like arrows, as in I went from the EX to the LE to the HX and now ??. Sorry for the confusion!
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post #13 of 25
7/16/10 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by triathlete17 View Post

Thanks for the inputs everyone. The Sharp 810 crossed my mind, but again its a very reflective screen & edge lit. I would prefer local dimming (or at least edge w/ dynamic like the c8000 or hx800 even though it still has some drawbacks).

The Sony 900 has a lot of qualities but the cost is insanely high. ($3k or just over is my limit). That and the 3D capabilities have a long way to go IMO after getting the HX800.

Looks like I will try the 55LHX since the BBY near me has one in stock. If I'm disappointed, maybe I will cut my losses and get an inexpensive set until next year. That or wait until Aug / Sept for the new Vizio Pro models...?

Sharp's 810un's screen isn't as reflective as you think. The 820un has a much more reflective screen. The 810un is almost a semi-matte screen so reflection are not as much of a concern as others screens with full glasses in front.
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post #14 of 25
7/16/10 at 6:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by petardo View Post

triathlete17, thanks for your contribution. So in your opinion, the LE8500 has better picture quality than the HX800 (despite of banding, reflections,..)? I was hesitating whether to get the HX800 or the LE8500, finally, tired of waiting I purchased the LG and I'm very happy with it but I haven't seen the HX800 yet.

Yes, IMO, the LG has a much better pq than the HX. The dynamic edge lighting is much better than the standard edge lighting on the EX, but isn't nearly as good as the full led on the LE. The 10pt IRE, 1ms response time, MUCH better off angle viewing, etc. are other big pluses over the HX. I would like to have tested out the HX9 because of the local dimming panel (I haven't heard much about banding issues yet), but its way to expensive right now.
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post #15 of 25
7/16/10 at 7:21am
The LG 9500 also has banding



another site LG 9500



another site LG 8500/8900



in most reviews the 8500/9500 has got worse review then the HX

LG 8500/8900 http://www.digitalversus.com/lg-42le...4_9086_35.html Image quality 3/5
Sony HX800 http://www.digitalversus.com/sony-br...4_8890_16.html
Image quality 5/5
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post #16 of 25
7/16/10 at 7:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

The LG 9500 also has banding



another site LG 9500



another site LG 8500/8900



in most reviews the 8500/9500 has got worse review then the HX

LG 8500/8900 http://www.digitalversus.com/lg-42le...4_9086_35.html Image quality 3/5
Sony HX800 http://www.digitalversus.com/sony-br...4_8890_16.html
Image quality 5/5

I saw another review site that rated the HX very well (FullHD.gr). However if you scroll down to the bottom of the review for the LG8900 from digitalversus.com, they say that a minus about the set is the bright blacks and resulting poor low contrast ratio. Well obviously if you turn off the local dimming.. and therefore negating the point of buying the TV in the first place... of course you are going to have poor black levels (idiots..) Televisionreview.com made the same conclusion in their review because they also turned off the local dimming (idiots.. again). Additionally, any company's Motionflow, Trumotion, etc. will result in a b-movie / soap look to one degree or another.

I will admit that in a few scenes that were totally black with a few localized bright areas, the halo effect was apparent. However it rarely ever happened & I did not notice it on my PS3 XMB unless I was seated at a fairly extreme off axis. I can only remember it happening in a sequence of Shutter Island and another part of Master & Commander.
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post #17 of 25
7/16/10 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

The LG 9500 also has banding



another site LG 9500



another site LG 8500/8900



in most reviews the 8500/9500 has got worse review then the HX

LG 8500/8900 http://www.digitalversus.com/lg-42le...4_9086_35.html Image quality 3/5
Sony HX800 http://www.digitalversus.com/sony-br...4_8890_16.html
Image quality 5/5

In what 'most reviews'?? I've read many stellar reviews for the LG LE8500, but none so far for the HX800/HX90x. Even CNET scored the LG higher than the Sony HX909 by 4 to 3.5 in it's list of Best HDTVs.

Do you realize what angles those pictures you posted were taken from? Try looking at the Sony HX series at those angles and marvel at the blueish blacks. It looks like those blooming photos in the LG review were taken before any basic calibration. Every LCD has its faults, but the LG had better colors and dimensionality to the image than the HX800, and that is what counts more than all out-of-the-box measurements posted by Digital Versus. I crudely calibrated the LG using CNET's and FlatpanelsHD's settings for the ISF Expert 1 and Expert 2 profiles. The picture is the most gorgeous I've ever seen. The HX series does not come close.
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post #18 of 25
7/16/10 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Do you realize what angles those pictures were taken from? Try looking at the Sony HX series at those angles and marvel at the blueish blacks. It looks like those blooming photos in the LG review were taken before any basic calibration. Every LCD has its faults, but the LG had better colors and dimensionality to the image than the HX800, and that is what counts more than all out-of-the-box measurements posted by Digital Versus. I crudely calibrated the LG using CNET's and FlatpanelsHD's settings for the ISF Expert 1 and Expert 2 profiles. The picture is the most gorgeous I've ever seen. The HX series does not come close.

I couldn't agree more. The off axis on my HX is atrocious (yet another reason why it's going back) compared to when I had the LE. Now if it wasn't for the damn banding....
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post #19 of 25
7/16/10 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

In what 'most reviews'?? I've read many stellar reviews for the LG LE8500, but none so far for the HX800/HX90x. Even CNET scored the LG higher than the Sony HX909 by 4 to 3.5 in it's list of Best HDTVs.

Do you realize what angles those pictures you posted were taken from? Try looking at the Sony HX series at those angles and marvel at the blueish blacks. It looks like those blooming photos in the LG review were taken before any basic calibration. Every LCD has its faults, but the LG had better colors and dimensionality to the image than the HX800, and that is what counts more than all out-of-the-box measurements posted by Digital Versus. I crudely calibrated the LG using CNET's and FlatpanelsHD's settings for the ISF Expert 1 and Expert 2 profiles. The picture is the most gorgeous I've ever seen. The HX series does not come close.

Well thats your opinion not the reviewers at digitalversus who rated the HX800 above the LG.In trusted reviews they say the HX800 arguably is the best edge lit tv for 2d.



in fullhdgr for they said in lg tvs
Quote:


Certainly ... there is the clouding, which appears as a geometric image of each illuminated element and bothers me more to drive the TV from a computer.

In the HX800
Quote:


Clouding the missing!

Clouding in greek= to blooming in english according google translation
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post #20 of 25
7/16/10 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by triathlete17 View Post

I saw another review site that rated the HX very well (FullHD.gr). However if you scroll down to the bottom of the review for the LG8900 from digitalversus.com, they say that a minus about the set is the bright blacks and resulting poor low contrast ratio. Well obviously if you turn off the local dimming.. and therefore negating the point of buying the TV in the first place... of course you are going to have poor black levels (idiots..) Televisionreview.com made the same conclusion in their review because they also turned off the local dimming (idiots.. again). Additionally, any company's Motionflow, Trumotion, etc. will result in a b-movie / soap look to one degree or another.

I will admit that in a few scenes that were totally black with a few localized bright areas, the halo effect was apparent. However it rarely ever happened & I did not notice it on my PS3 XMB unless I was seated at a fairly extreme off axis. I can only remember it happening in a sequence of Shutter Island and another part of Master & Commander.

Well yes they did measure the contrast with local dimming activated,but the sony still show better blacks in pixel level.
In full HD gr the lowest black measured in LG was 0.02nits where as in the HX800 the lowest blacks was 0.00nits.

What most reviews say is that the Sony motionflow as one of the least soap opera effect.
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post #21 of 25
8/18/10 at 10:41am
What I notice on the 55HX800 is that Motion Flow set to Smooth produces the "soap opera" effect but in a most peculiar and somewhat pleasing way. It's hard to explain. However, Motion Flow set to Standard kicks ass without even a hint of over-processing.
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post #22 of 25
8/18/10 at 12:47pm
The funniest part of all, is there I come from another forum and it always the same discussion. LG is better, or sony kick ass, etc. It doesn't matter which country or what.
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post #23 of 25
8/19/10 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by triathlete17 View Post

Hi everyone,

So I need some advice. After holding off getting a new TV last year, I decided to pick one up early in the year. I first started off with a Sony 52EX700. Great color representation and "decent" black levels for an edge LED, however I wasn't pleased with the screen uniformity, light bleed, etc..

After returning the Sony, I went and picked up the LG 55LE8500. It is an absolutely BEAUTIFUL TV. Everything from aesthetics to PQ. Simply one of the best pictures I have ever seen. However, for all the heaven, there is a hell. As much as I truly wanted to keep this set, the banding was just too much for me to overlook and was increasingly frustrating every time I saw it (every light colored scene when the picture panned vertically). It is very annoying IMO. An LG tech even came out to look at it and there was nothing that he could do about fixing it. It's the way the IOP panel is designed. Second nail in the coffin for me was as black as the picture was (and I mean BLACK), the screen is a highly reflective pane of glass. Unfortunately, what good are absolute blacks if it means I will just see every reflection in the room?

Moving on. Returned the LG and BBY was offering a package deal for the Sony HX800. Decided to give it a try. Much better blacks than the EX, great color, image processing, etc (though not nearly as good as the LG). Still has an issue with screen uniformity though & some "clouds" on a black screen. Not as much of an issue as the 3D.. Extremely disappointed. Your head needs to be completely static. Tilt your head +/-3 deg off center and the image either turns blue or red (left / right) and you will get significant crosstalk. Additionally, you can't lean your head back on a headrest without placing the glasses on the tip of your nose (otherwise you'll be looking under the glasses frame).

In the end, I am torn on what I should pick up now. Tentatively leaning towards last years LG 55LHX (direct LED w/ 240 dimmable zones), no banding, etc., although no internet & unsure of power consumption since I will have to plug in the TV and wireless box.

Any other suggestions??? Fairly bright room, seating dist. 10ft, would like to stay away from plasma if possible (power consumption, image retention, fading blacks, etc..).

It is real puzzle to me why people still pursue Sony and LG TV's, even thou they (and there's a fair bit of forum members here who do..) easily notice major flaws....

Try Sharp...

Boky
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post #24 of 25
8/19/10 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

It is real puzzle to me why people still pursue Sony and LG TV's, even thou they (and there's a fair bit of forum members here who do..) easily notice major flaws....

Try Sharp...

Boky

Are you contending that the Sharp is free of any flaws? Especially this year, it's a question of the degree of compromise between the various flaws of each TV and the price/performance quotient.

THERE. IS. NO. PERFECT. TV.
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post #25 of 25
8/19/10 at 10:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Are you contending that the Sharp is free of any flaws? Especially this year, it's a question of the degree of compromise between the various flaws of each TV and the price/performance quotient.

THERE. IS. NO. PERFECT. TV.

Sharp is free of many flaws, and hampered by few only (the worst being banding - but their LCD panels are getting a lot better in that regard).

Boky
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