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*Remastered* Gladiator 10th Anniversary Pics and Comparison (Dutch BD) - Page 3

post #61 of 1203
7/17/10 at 2:24pm
Thanks a ton BsRoz for the caps.
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post #62 of 1203
7/17/10 at 2:27pm
Guys, he already said on page 2 that it contains both cuts.

EDIT: And just because I have no better place to put these, here's what the older master looked like before they slapped the processing on it.



From "The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Editing" documentary that's on the Bullitt HD DVD.

Produced in 2004 by the BBC and some other companies. Blah, blah blah...
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post #63 of 1203
7/17/10 at 2:41pm
BsRoz can you do the full BDInfo scan so we can see if the audio is any different? (Predator UHE had an identical DTS-MA bitrate to the original for example).
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post #64 of 1203
7/17/10 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

BsRoz can you do the full BDInfo scan so we can see if the audio is any different? (Predator UHE had an identical DTS-MA bitrate to the original for example).

It was already listed: English 5.1, 24 bit DTS-Master Audio. The only way it would sound any better is if they did a total re-mastering job of the original soundtrack.

---

Maybe, just maybe the Universal/Paramount version will have a better compression job from the apparently newly struck HD master, as I doubt they'll have quite so many language and subtitle tracks eating up disc space as this European release.

Probably just English, Spanish, and French (Quebec?) language tracks (with the English track getting DTS-MA lossless), and probably fewer subtitle streams.

I'll wait too.
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post #65 of 1203
7/17/10 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

It was already listed: English 5.1, 24 bit DTS-Master Audio. The only way it would sound any better is if they did a total re-mastering job of the original soundtrack.

that doesnt say anything regarding what he was asking for. whats needed is the bitrate so its rather easy to see if the track is identical to the old one or not.
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post #66 of 1203
7/17/10 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post

that doesnt say anything regarding what he was asking for. whats needed is the bitrate so its rather easy to see if the track is identical to the old one or not.

It may not tell you everything... unless you actually listen to both tracks and compare the two.

Even if they were from different soundtrack masters, the bitrate may not be a good indicator as the bitrate varies with the complexity of the original PCM file... and each player's meter is variable as to the accuracy of the numbers being generated.

A 24 bit/48 kHz track compressed with variable bitrate DTS Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD will still have a relatively quiet moment needing a smaller bitrate peak than one with music and sound effects pounding out of every channel. The bitrate range may also be similar given they are both 5.1 tracks and still flagged as 24 bit/48 kHz tracks on both releases.

If, say, the new U.S. version were to have 7.1 audio from a complete soundtrack overhaul, then the audio bitrate peak would be much higher due to the two extra channels being compressed.

Again, you'd have to critically listen to both tracks with a good sound system.
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post #67 of 1203
7/17/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

It may not tell you everything... unless you actually listen to both tracks and compare the two.

So, who's listened to both? Is the BD worth the upgrade if the lossless tracks are the main reason you like BD?
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post #68 of 1203
7/17/10 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

It may not tell you everything... unless you actually listen to both tracks and compare the two.

Even if they were from different soundtrack masters, the bitrate may not be a good indicator as the bitrate varies with the complexity of the original PCM file... and each player's meter is variable as to the accuracy of the numbers being generated.

A 24 bit/48 kHz track compressed with variable bitrate DTS Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD will still have a relatively quiet moment needing a smaller bitrate peak than one with music and sound effects pounding out of every channel. The bitrate range may also be similar given they are both 5.1 tracks and still flagged as 24 bit/48 kHz tracks on both releases.

If, say, the new U.S. version were to have 7.1 audio from a complete soundtrack overhaul, then the audio bitrate peak would be much higher due to the two extra channels being compressed.

Again, you'd have to critically listen to both tracks with a good sound system.

We know all this. I just want to know if it's identical or not. If the bitrate is exactly the same, they you don't need to waste time comparing them. If it's different, then there's the possibility it's better (or worse).
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post #69 of 1203
7/17/10 at 6:02pm
I want to know where I can buy this NOW
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post #70 of 1203
7/17/10 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_ca View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTa View Post

any comparison screens from extended parts?

Also interested in this information.
Cause in the first edition the extended parts looked better, but not this better.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the extended scenes now stick out because they look slightly worse than the surrounding footage instead of much better.

That's exactly why I asked!
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post #71 of 1203
7/17/10 at 6:28pm
There are some issues- check out what looks like squashed dynamics in this shot.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4475/89564219.png
They seemed to compress the high end dynamics even though there were 75 steps still available.
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post #72 of 1203
7/17/10 at 7:32pm
I feel like an idiot for buying the Sapphire Edition, but oh well it's what it's.
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post #73 of 1203
7/17/10 at 8:05pm
I'm so happy I can finally retire my DVD! I'm not sure if I can wait for a U.S. release. Since the Dutch version has English audio/menus and isn't locked, I may just order this on payday.
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post #74 of 1203
7/17/10 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson View Post

There are some issues- check out what looks like squashed dynamics in this shot.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4475/89564219.png
They seemed to compress the high end dynamics even though there were 75 steps still available.

Doesnt seem that bad.
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post #75 of 1203
7/17/10 at 10:21pm
I don't know about you guys, but I prefer the 'head shot' on the previous page of the sapphire edition. That's about it. Everything else that I've seen looks better on the newer 10th anniversary edition. The color timing, on the other hand, needs to be slightly cooler; closer to what the DVD was. Flame all you want but on the shot where Maximus is wearing his helmet I felt it to be more 3D. The other shots? Better on the new version.......
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post #76 of 1203
7/17/10 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Doesnt seem that bad.

I just did a quick fix, I took the highest 80 steps of useful info and then expanded them to the full range. The result is pretty good, its pretty clear something like process but in reverse took place:

new bluray:
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4475/89564219.png
my fix:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7...atordrange.png

Thoughts? Was I right?
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post #77 of 1203
7/17/10 at 10:54pm
With the new filtering you put on its looking worse. But thats not whats counts.

EDIT

With you tweaks, it looks like a sunny morning. Thats not how the rest of the scene looks like.
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post #78 of 1203
7/17/10 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

Flame all you want but on the shot where Maximus is wearing his helmet I felt it to be more 3D.

Thats basicly how edge enhancement works. But its looks real ugly.
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post #79 of 1203
7/17/10 at 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

With the new filtering you put on its looking worse. But thats not whats counts.

its not a filter, but it is true that it won't be able to match the original dynamics ramp because it may not have been linear.
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post #80 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson View Post

There are some issues- check out what looks like squashed dynamics in this shot.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4475/89564219.png
They seemed to compress the high end dynamics even though there were 75 steps still available.

Every shot doesn't have to be constantly clipping the dynamic range from both ends... if a scene is meant to be darker, then that's how it should be.
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post #81 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Every shot doesn't have to be constantly clipping the dynamic range from both ends... if a scene is meant to be darker, then that's how it should be.

absolutely true, but I can see that effect going on in the image. Could be many things, but that area of the image should be brighter.
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post #82 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson View Post

absolutely true, but I can see that effect going on in the image. Could be many things, but that area of the image should be brighter.

I did an edit to my orginal post, but I post it here.

With you tweaks, it looks like a sunny morning. Thats not how the rest of the scene looks like.
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post #83 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I did an edit to my orginal post, but I post it here.

With you tweaks, it looks like a sunny morning. Thats not how the rest of the scene looks like.

Could be a continuity issue, either way that specific shot did originally have that sort of dynamic range going on in it.
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post #84 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

I don't know about you guys, but I prefer the 'head shot' on the previous page of the sapphire edition. Flame all you want but on the shot where Maximus is wearing his helmet I felt it to be more 3D. The other shots? Better on the new version.......

I think the colours & detail are MUCH better on the new transfer. Check out the armour on his shoulder & forehead.....it's twice as polished & much more accurate. His stubble is more realistic too....

Night & day for me.
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post #85 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson View Post

Could be a continuity issue, either way that specific shot did originally have that sort of dynamic range going on in it.

Yes, the problem here is that we trying to recreate film on a 8bit medium. Its not ideal for darker and brighter scenes. And of course film usually looks alot different from how it was shoot and how it looked in post.
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post #86 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:24pm
Absolutely 1000% better! Glad I didn't buy the Sapphire garbage. I wonder what Penton-Man has to say about this. Yes, you CAN call me a "screenshot scientist," because we were absolutely right!
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post #87 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Yes, the problem here is that we trying to recreate film on a 8bit medium. Its not ideal for darker and brighter scenes. And of course film usually looks alot different from how it was shoot and how it looked in post.

I explained it earlier, in that specific shot there is nothing above 180, so I just grabbed the highest 75 region and expanded it linearly to expand what was left. The range is kept, as evidenced by the details in the white areas, but it was simply compressed hard and down.

Below is a second attempt, but this time I did a logarithmic scale to the same range. The results are much more natural (and more correct) as expected:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7...atordrange.png


Below are the links again, for those who don't want to have to search through old posts.

original:http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4475/89564219.png
linear dynamics expansion:http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7...atordrange.png
non-linear dynamics expansion: http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/6...dnonlinear.png
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post #88 of 1203
7/17/10 at 11:47pm
Here is another one where the same sort of thing happened:
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9374/31683724.png

non-linear dynamics expanded:
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8...2nonlinear.png

In that case, along with others, there will be places where we can't reconstruct the dynamics properly and smoothly like around the trees, but at least this gives an idea of what it did actually look more like at one point in production.

Anyway, my guess is it was simply what the day of filming looked like and they tried to tame the brightness for it to fit with the way the other scenes worked. No real problem, but its still visible
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post #89 of 1203
7/18/10 at 12:11am
I hope to God Paramount brings this new remaster to the states.
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post #90 of 1203
7/18/10 at 12:36am
Screen shots are a good indication, yet the ultimate test is seeing the new BD

....I am not so sure why there is all this crowing about being right when it comes to the screen shots, as all you have to do is see on a display that is 50 inches or more of the first BD to see how bad it is....and i can point to some screen shots of the first movie and say, hey there is nothing wrong with this transfer, it is great.....when I have exprienced the opposite as I was one of the first non-reviewers to see the movie early courtesy of a Blockbuster mistake giving it to me several days before its official release

I was just so excited until about five to ten minutes into it, when I kept thinking well it might get better, after all much of the first ten minutes or so was shot to look like the grey and cold of winter.....but then the light hit....

I just wonder if they will do a trade in.....
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