Note: This is not the banding or contouring which you might see in grayscale ramp or color gradations in static images typical in many plasmas. This is only in 96 Hz and only in vt25. This is a motion artifact due to 96 Hz processing.
Please, this is not a whining thread, but just to raise some awareness so that maybe Panasonic might fix this with a firmware thread. First of all great TV. I guess I am not going to repeat the positive attributes of this series. There has been enough written about it. I am creating this thread so that maybe I and others could catalog some experience with direct reference to movies where this artifact is seen.
This artifact happens only in 96 Hz mode when there is a 1080p/24 signal into the TV. It does not happen when it is in 48 Hz or 60 Hz (2:3 pulldown). Currently you can output such a signal from only a 24p enabled BD or HDDVD player. With the TV in 96 Hz, in certain scenes false contours can be seen on moving objects on the screen (usually lateral movement). Typically this shows up when the objects are out of focus and moving with respect to the camera (still camera and object moving or camera panning and object still). During such a scenario, false contours or lines are evident on the object. Sometimes the contours/lines have a bit color to them giving the moving out of focus object a dirty look. This artifact disappears when changing the mode to 48 Hz or 60 Hz. No other setting helps with this issue.
I have seen in 70% of my movies here and there. It is not an artifact that you see constantly. In some movies it is more prevalent than others, and in some movies I have not noticed (I do not know why so), but the artifact is in the 96 Hz mode, not in the source. I do not have a defective set as I have seen the same issue on a store display and also on last year's v10. CNET mentions of this artifact in their review......
"On the other hand, we were surprised to find that the VT20/25 evinced false contouring artifacts in 96Hz mode. They were relatively rare, but certainly obvious when we saw them, which was only in transitions between bright and dark areas that moved across the screen. We first noticed it in Chapter 12 (47:25), where the glow of the pods illuminating the Omaticaya council showed banding contours as opposed to the smooth gradation from light to dark seen on the other displays. Similar bands were visible in the torch Neytiri extinguishes in Chapter 11 (36:30). No adjustment we tried seemed to affect the issue, aside from switching back to 60Hz, which made the contouring much less noticeable (and no worse than on the other sets). In our view the correct cadence is worth the tradeoff for occasional contouring artifacts, so we kept the set at 96Hz for movies, but we wish we didn't have to make that decision. We also looked at the V10 from last year and saw similar contouring in 96Hz, which we missed in our initial review."
For discerning eyes, it is very noticeable and I am baffled why there were no reports from 2009 and for the 2010 vt25, I have seen only 4 or 5 folks complaining about it. I am wondering how the issue could be relayed to Panasonic so that they take some action. Can someone with connections to Panny help with that? This is a great TV, but would be greater if 96 Hz was without such error. 48 Hz is not usable due to flicker, and 60 Hz has the usual telecine judder to deal with.
Examples:
1. Book of Eli - Scene at the beginning of the movie, when Denzel Washington walks into this abandoned house, sits down and roasts some meat on a fire, as his head moves back and forth, you can see the false contours on his slightly blurred face.
2. Sunshine Cleaning - Towards the middle of the movie, Amy Adams' sister burns down a client's house and when Amy approaches the scene and bangs on the truck window, she subsequently moves towards the burning house, you can see false contours along her hairline as her slightly blurred head moves across and out of the camera.
3. Dan in Real Life - Towards the beginning of the movie, when Steve Carrell is outside his house and her daughters are running to get into the school bus, there is a shot of his head moving across the frame, where false contours are seen on his slightly blurred face.
4. Crossing Over (2009): At 34:44 mark, when the Bangladeshi immigrant family is having dinner and the ICE agents barge in, the camera zooms on the female ICE agent and then pans around the room to the two Bangladeshi muslim girls and you can this artifact galore on the out-of-focus moving faces of the girls. The false contours on the girls faces have a greenish color to them kinda looks like phosphor trails, but it is not that. You can call the artifact ghosting also. The intensity of the artifact is as strong I have ever seen. When I switched to 48 Hz or 60 Hz, it is gone.....just normal blur and judder.
You cannot miss this example. If you do not see this one, I am sorry you need to get your eyes checked.
5. Avatar: From CNET.......We first noticed it in Chapter 12 (47:25), where the glow of the pods illuminating the Omaticaya council showed banding contours as opposed to the smooth gradation from light to dark seen on the other displays. Similar bands were visible in the torch Neytiri extinguishes in Chapter 11 (36:30). No adjustment we tried seemed to affect the issue, aside from switching back to 60Hz, which made the contouring much less noticeable (and no worse than on the other sets).
I understand folks who do not see it and already have this set reluctant to check this out, but folks who are thinking of buying a vt25 might want to check out this artifact to make sure you can live with it. I am having trouble with it and reluctantly will have to resort to 60 Hz from now on and deal with 3:2 pulldown judder. It is less bothersome than this artifact in 96 Hz.
P.S. If you do not see this issue, please do not flame this thread. Good for you then. Maybe you will never notice it, or you will once you accumulate some viewing hours on the set. I noticed it from the first movie I saw, and I would have even if the CNET review did not come out with a similar observation.
Can anyone report the same findings in vt30 with the same scenes? Thanks!
Please, this is not a whining thread, but just to raise some awareness so that maybe Panasonic might fix this with a firmware thread. First of all great TV. I guess I am not going to repeat the positive attributes of this series. There has been enough written about it. I am creating this thread so that maybe I and others could catalog some experience with direct reference to movies where this artifact is seen.
This artifact happens only in 96 Hz mode when there is a 1080p/24 signal into the TV. It does not happen when it is in 48 Hz or 60 Hz (2:3 pulldown). Currently you can output such a signal from only a 24p enabled BD or HDDVD player. With the TV in 96 Hz, in certain scenes false contours can be seen on moving objects on the screen (usually lateral movement). Typically this shows up when the objects are out of focus and moving with respect to the camera (still camera and object moving or camera panning and object still). During such a scenario, false contours or lines are evident on the object. Sometimes the contours/lines have a bit color to them giving the moving out of focus object a dirty look. This artifact disappears when changing the mode to 48 Hz or 60 Hz. No other setting helps with this issue.
I have seen in 70% of my movies here and there. It is not an artifact that you see constantly. In some movies it is more prevalent than others, and in some movies I have not noticed (I do not know why so), but the artifact is in the 96 Hz mode, not in the source. I do not have a defective set as I have seen the same issue on a store display and also on last year's v10. CNET mentions of this artifact in their review......
"On the other hand, we were surprised to find that the VT20/25 evinced false contouring artifacts in 96Hz mode. They were relatively rare, but certainly obvious when we saw them, which was only in transitions between bright and dark areas that moved across the screen. We first noticed it in Chapter 12 (47:25), where the glow of the pods illuminating the Omaticaya council showed banding contours as opposed to the smooth gradation from light to dark seen on the other displays. Similar bands were visible in the torch Neytiri extinguishes in Chapter 11 (36:30). No adjustment we tried seemed to affect the issue, aside from switching back to 60Hz, which made the contouring much less noticeable (and no worse than on the other sets). In our view the correct cadence is worth the tradeoff for occasional contouring artifacts, so we kept the set at 96Hz for movies, but we wish we didn't have to make that decision. We also looked at the V10 from last year and saw similar contouring in 96Hz, which we missed in our initial review."
For discerning eyes, it is very noticeable and I am baffled why there were no reports from 2009 and for the 2010 vt25, I have seen only 4 or 5 folks complaining about it. I am wondering how the issue could be relayed to Panasonic so that they take some action. Can someone with connections to Panny help with that? This is a great TV, but would be greater if 96 Hz was without such error. 48 Hz is not usable due to flicker, and 60 Hz has the usual telecine judder to deal with.
Examples:
1. Book of Eli - Scene at the beginning of the movie, when Denzel Washington walks into this abandoned house, sits down and roasts some meat on a fire, as his head moves back and forth, you can see the false contours on his slightly blurred face.
2. Sunshine Cleaning - Towards the middle of the movie, Amy Adams' sister burns down a client's house and when Amy approaches the scene and bangs on the truck window, she subsequently moves towards the burning house, you can see false contours along her hairline as her slightly blurred head moves across and out of the camera.
3. Dan in Real Life - Towards the beginning of the movie, when Steve Carrell is outside his house and her daughters are running to get into the school bus, there is a shot of his head moving across the frame, where false contours are seen on his slightly blurred face.
4. Crossing Over (2009): At 34:44 mark, when the Bangladeshi immigrant family is having dinner and the ICE agents barge in, the camera zooms on the female ICE agent and then pans around the room to the two Bangladeshi muslim girls and you can this artifact galore on the out-of-focus moving faces of the girls. The false contours on the girls faces have a greenish color to them kinda looks like phosphor trails, but it is not that. You can call the artifact ghosting also. The intensity of the artifact is as strong I have ever seen. When I switched to 48 Hz or 60 Hz, it is gone.....just normal blur and judder.
You cannot miss this example. If you do not see this one, I am sorry you need to get your eyes checked.
5. Avatar: From CNET.......We first noticed it in Chapter 12 (47:25), where the glow of the pods illuminating the Omaticaya council showed banding contours as opposed to the smooth gradation from light to dark seen on the other displays. Similar bands were visible in the torch Neytiri extinguishes in Chapter 11 (36:30). No adjustment we tried seemed to affect the issue, aside from switching back to 60Hz, which made the contouring much less noticeable (and no worse than on the other sets).
I understand folks who do not see it and already have this set reluctant to check this out, but folks who are thinking of buying a vt25 might want to check out this artifact to make sure you can live with it. I am having trouble with it and reluctantly will have to resort to 60 Hz from now on and deal with 3:2 pulldown judder. It is less bothersome than this artifact in 96 Hz.
P.S. If you do not see this issue, please do not flame this thread. Good for you then. Maybe you will never notice it, or you will once you accumulate some viewing hours on the set. I noticed it from the first movie I saw, and I would have even if the CNET review did not come out with a similar observation.
Can anyone report the same findings in vt30 with the same scenes? Thanks!
