TCA Pro 10 Thread - Page 3

Why the holdup in reviews for these? I believe many pairs have been sent out, but so far not much talk. Are the owners still under a "gag" order? I need to hear more about the Pro-10s, OK?????????

Yeahhhhhh!

I would like the Pro 6.5 with at least 95db as my surround speaker.

I wonder how the HSU bookshelf / in wall speakers would keep up as surrounds to the Pro- 10s until something smaller gets released?

Madpoet,

How would you describe the differences in dynamics and clarity between the Pro-10's and the xstaticks at higher SPL's?

They are very different speakers. The XStatiks/XVoce have such a broad sound stage because that is what they are designed to do. Almost like a concert feel to them. The Pro10s are pinpoint precise. They image perfectly, your ears are always drawn to the sound coming from where it should be. On the SACD for "Oh Brother" there's the first song where they are doing the chain gang. The ring of the hammers ripples across the front exactly as it should. You can see it in your head moving left to right, and it is executed perfectly.

The other example I've given is on Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" DVD-A. On "Funeral for a Friend" the X series get muddy at reference levels. The synthesizer way overpowers all the other instruments because it is so strong. With the Pro10s I can easily pick out the individual pieces and hear them compliment the synthesizer rather than get lost in it.

I'm driving mine with an Outlaw 770 for reference. I've also said they exposed my surrounds (I was using Rocket 450s). They aren't keeping up

Thank-you. How many hours do you have on them? Are they still breaking in? If not how many hours did it take for the SQ to settle down to a consistent quality? I know Craig has suggested a fairly long break-in period, which would be consistent with pro drivers and CD horns.

I've got 40 hours or so. They need at least 100.

I'm surprised like crazy that I like these this much... Every time I switch back to Rockets they just sound ...less alive! These horns just sound amazing..not bright are harsh at all...These are some of the best Home Theater speakers I've ever heard...Dynamics are super and they can easily keep up with KL-650s without a sweat.

Even two channel music seems more alive and vocal are very smooth and accurate...and instuments, like guitars seem like the strings are being strung right in your room with extreme detail.

I'd really like to see some head to head against some of the Big boy speakers on the forum...(I'm sure yall know the ones) I just can't see spending more on HT speakers....I just don't think you'd gain enough to make it even close to being worth the cost.

From other head to head comparisons I've written up I'm sure it's evident that I have no problem giving my opinion and sending speakers back (Klipsch RF, JBL 8340a)....the Pro-10s were no different...yet they have blown me away.

Suberb Job Craig and rest of the TCA bunch.

Thanks for your impressions. Considering the economic downturn, I don't think Craig and the TCA crew could have come up with a better time to introduce a high performance/high value speaker line. I'm glad to see all of the initial reviews are highly positive since I've been waiting on a preorder for 5 Pro-10's and 2 CS18.1's. Now that I've sold all my prior speakers, all I have to hold me over are these little mini reviews

I can't tell if you like them or not



Glad you like them. Hopefully I can snatch some up in the not too distant future but it'll likely be after Christmas at this point.

Really, 100 hours of break in? Come on............ So do they sound bad under 100 hours? Or is it more of a gradual thing, where they just get progressively better? Can you have guests over to hear them at, say, 80 hours, or will they still sound bad, er, worse than they should, er, not as good as they eventually will? Sorry, I never bought into the whole "break in" thing! Is that why everyone has been so quiet, waiting for 100 hours? I'm glad a few of you are finally talking, I've been waiting for listener reviews on these for awhile. Maybe for a few bucks more the speakers can be hooked up and played at the factory for a week straight, that would save everyone a lot of time... ;-)

No..they don't HAVE to have 100hrs...these are very effecient drivers and don't move as much as ineffeicent drivers do to hit the same SPLs.

As for the question of whether break in is real...speakers have mechanical components that have never moved...beyond factory testing...so yea they will loosen up.

Every speakers I've had in my room especially the Klipsch rf, Rockets and JBL 8340a needed breakin....a few hours can turn an initial frown into a smile.

I wouldn't want to pay more for the factory to break them in....heck just leave them kickin for a few days straight...50hrs IMO is probably fine to start doing hardcore listening...I've had many nambrand speakers through the years all had to broke in.

Ah, I was just joshing ya'll! The few scientific articles I've read, however, said that measurable mechanical "break in" differences occurred in less than a minute, and measurable electrical changes only took milliseconds, IIRC. I don't mean to start a debate, but I really don't buy into it, that's all! I'm more interested in how these speakers sound, with or without break in.

I've read similar articles, but they didn't address high efficiency compression drivers. I agree that "audiophile" speakers utilizing low efficiency cone tweeters and low efficiency woofers will have very brief break-in times.

Although I haven't been able to find a lot of information on compression driver break-in times, the vast majority of opinions agree that compression driver break-in times are real events and it doesn't happen in minutes, but instead takes hours. I've seen many numbers thrown around, but 20-60 hours does seem to be an accepted break-in for the compression drivers. It even appears that the high efficiency pro woofers may have a longer break-in than lower efficiency woofers. But information on that topic is very sparce.

Floridapoolboy,

Here's a link http://www.audioholics.com/education...act-or-fiction to a VERY scientific article on speaker break-in supporting your, and my, beliefs.

However, note in the closing statement that he specifies the speaker type his results apply to, "In an electrodynamic driver featuring the usual surround-diaphragm-spider construction, driver suspension mechanical compliance plays a key roll in determining the measured value of various driver parameters. All of these parameters will shift as the mechanical compliance of the driver's suspension shifts in value. The bulk of a driver's compliance shift will occur at the time of initial burn in."

I have bolded and italicized. He makes clear he is NOT talking about compression drivers. If you go back and look, I think you will find the same caveat to the other articles you've read as well.

Interesting read, thanks! This is what he had to say about compression drivers, JBL 2447H models:

"The following Monday I measured each driver twice: first immediately after disconnecting it from the test rig, then again about 4 hours later. Aside from differences attributable to changes in each driver's voice coil temperature, in none of those drivers did I uncover any significant changes in any of the measured parameters or performance.

Four years after the system had been installed in the theater, I had the opportunity to go back and take some measurements. I availed myself of the opportunity and found that the amplitude response plots made that day matched to within a fraction of a dB those made when the system was first installed. Four year's worth of "breaking in" hadn't affected the system to any significant degree."

Well, you DID say that you didn't want to start a debate, lol So I say we just leave this here so the thread is not derailed.

This topic is best left for a different thread.

I still want to know how these will compare to the Seaton Sparks. (I think that is the closest competition)

The Seaton Spark is $1495 per speaker and is internally amplified. I don't see how that is it's closest competition. Perhaps the JTR Slant 8 at $600.

Yeah, the Spark is just too expensive to really be in competition with the Pro10. For a little less than the cost of a pair of Sparks you can get five Pro10s and an XPA5(just an example). That's not saying anything about the sq of either speaker. Just the obvious issue of cost. I'd say something like this is more in line with the Pro10's competition based on price alone.

I would say the Pro-10's competition is all of the $300 to $1,000 low sensitivity audiophile speakers that many people think are great for HT. I would love to see head to head blind HT listening tests against those speakers. Especially if the sound levels were pushed a little bit. It is going to be very hard for an under 90bd speaker to compete against these.

I was a proponent of these speakers as soon as I read about them. As I have told several people, I looked for over a year for a high sensitivity speaker that used a 10" pro driver with a compression horn that sold at a decent price. I could not find any such animal out there. They just did not exist. There were a few PA speaker, but I did not like the plastic cabinets and I did not know about the sound quality. The PA speakers that I thought might have the sound quality sold at a lot higher price point. I was all set to build my own, when the Pro-10 design was first announced. I was all set to buy and even asked to be put on a pre-order list. If I had not found a deal on JTR T8 speakers I would own a set of Pro-10's right now. I would love to compare the Pro-10's to my JTR's to see how the Pro-10's would do.

Agreed! I did say that I wanted to hear listening impressions, with or without the recommended break in time. A matched set of 5 Pro-10s would be ideal for HT, if the sq and dynamics are there. Come on testers, keep the reviews coming!

That is an apples to oranges comparison. The Sierras do that down to 40Hz while delivering clean punchy bass from a small monitor. Cross them over at 80Hz thus taking the bass load off that efficiency number would go up. Very different design goals between the 2 speakers.

Crossing a speaker higher doesn't make it's effeiciency number (sensitivity) go up.. the tweeter being more effecient than the woofer is attenuated to match the level of the woofer in the crossover...it does however help take the load off of the speaker and AVR making it more dynamic.

But yea like you said..apples to oranges.

Yep. One is designed to provide clean reference level HT and one isn't. Pretty obvious which is which.

These speakers sound real promising for a home theater setup...priced right to boot!

You recommend plastic cabinets and piezo tweeters?

Grandarf, have you had a chance to listen to and/or test the speakers you recommend to us?

Normally you'd be correct...but the problem is many of us have tried Pro speakers and most don't have the quality of sound... the crisp clean detail we want...they're commonly harsh and very fatiguing. We've known of their pros being dynamic effeceint etc...but the cons were too much.

The JTR t8 is probably the most popular speaker that has gone from Pro to the HT world...it's because it has the quality sound that we demand yet it's a Pro speaker. Having heard many Pro-speakers.....no way will this speaker be stuck in a Pro catagorie..it was designed by an audiophile to meet our expectations for sound quality...yet it gives us much much more.

And it really has nothing to do with actually listening at reference levels...read the few reviews that are out... we aren't cranking them any louder than we did with conventional speakers.... it's about outstanding dynamics, crazy detail and imaging and all with NO distortion... and most of all the sound of a real theater in our rooms.

I've recommended no speakers... All I've said is that they're most like the Pro10s and therefore would be most interesting to compare with, imho... Btw, one of the Geminis have wood cabinets, so if that's your thing you can get them too... But plastic vs wood, it's not a huge deal. Like so many things in speaker design, it's mostly about compromise, so that one thing doesn't mean they won't sound good. If you've heard some of the pro monitors, some have 'plastic' cabinets and sound quite good.

Here's what they say about the C200:

Have you heard any of these speakers? I wouldn't knock them just because they don't seem good to you, for example, because they use an injection-molded composite chassis... Again, "asymmetrical monocoque design with no parallel surfaces, causing mid and high frequency resonances to be reflected at angles into internal damping materials, instead of interfering with the woofer doing its thing.". Does the Pro10 has that? No? Does that mean the Pro10 are an inferior speaker? No? Well there you go... They use different drivers, different horns, different cabinets, different crossovers, so crossing one out just because it doesn't use wood is a bit silly imho... Also you'd have to consider bracing, the width of the material, box design, etc...