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3dc-1000 + Gefen + Samsung TV Help

post #1 of 48
7/27/10 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
I received my 3d starter kit today, but I cant seem to get much to work. Here's my current setup:

Sources: PS3 (fat), xbox 360, D* HR24 (may be a 23, i'll check), Sony 3d Blu-Ray player

Source>Denon AVR-591>3dc-1000>gefen hdmi detective>Samsung HL67A750

I've tried everything tonight, but the only 3d I could view was on the xbox through Invincible Tiger. And that seemed only to be because that game doesnt try to detect if your TV is 3d or not, you just force it. Everything else just told me I didn't have a 3d TV. And yes, I've tried taking the Denon out of the loop, but nothing changed.

So could it be the HDMI detective that's wrong? Maybe I didn't program the correct EDID (I just went to Ultimate Electronics and programmed from a Mits DLP, but not one of the 2010 models). Or maybe it didn't program the EDID at all? Also, on the Gefen HDMI detective there are 4 dip switches. The fourth one is just to enable HDCP. Should that be on or off? I did notice that with some things, changing that setting would make me lose video.

Can anyone help? And does anyone know if its ok to use the EDID of the Mits 738 models? I know they can do SBS without a converter, so thats why I avoided programming from them. I can't try anything until I get off work tomorrow, but I'd really like to get it all working soon.
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post #2 of 48
7/28/10 at 2:08am
Sorry to break in on your thread White_Worm, but this is exhibit A on why I am glad companies like Tru3D take a chance on offering a very niche product with their package that has the EDID already programmed. At least in theory, they offer a plug and play solution for the orphaned Samsung users.

And what does Tru3D get for their efforts? A lot of negative posts here. The bashing of companies like that gets annoying (not picking on you, WW). If you don't like the price of their solution, just move along. I often fight with technology at home and at work. Its worth a premium for me sometimes to get something that (in theory) just works out of the box.
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post #3 of 48
7/28/10 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by White_Worm View Post

I received my 3d starter kit today, but I cant seem to get much to work. Here's my current setup:

Sources: PS3 (fat), xbox 360, D* HR24 (may be a 23, i'll check), Sony 3d Blu-Ray player

Source>Denon AVR-591>3dc-1000>gefen hdmi detective>Samsung HL67A750

I've tried everything tonight, but the only 3d I could view was on the xbox through Invincible Tiger. And that seemed only to be because that game doesnt try to detect if your TV is 3d or not, you just force it. Everything else just told me I didn't have a 3d TV. And yes, I've tried taking the Denon out of the loop, but nothing changed.

So could it be the HDMI detective that's wrong? Maybe I didn't program the correct EDID (I just went to Ultimate Electronics and programmed from a Mits DLP, but not one of the 2010 models). Or maybe it didn't program the EDID at all? Also, on the Gefen HDMI detective there are 4 dip switches. The fourth one is just to enable HDCP. Should that be on or off? I did notice that with some things, changing that setting would make me lose video.

Can anyone help? And does anyone know if its ok to use the EDID of the Mits 738 models? I know they can do SBS without a converter, so thats why I avoided programming from them. I can't try anything until I get off work tomorrow, but I'd really like to get it all working soon.

White_worm, my understanding is with the Gefen, the purpose is to find a tv set whose EDID can except multiple types of 3D signals which would give you more connection options. The Mits WD738 series is still waiting on a firmware update that will provide more 3D option...so no don`t use the Mits..use a New Samsung 7000 or 8000 3DTV`s EDID and you should be find. Since HDCP is required, I would think you would leave it on.
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post #4 of 48
7/28/10 at 4:21am
White_Worm - this might be too simple, but even you never know:

Are you hooked into HDMI 3?
Is HDMI 3 renamed "PC"?
When the HLXXA750 recognizes 3D you won't see it until you choose tools, 3D Effect. Left click one time.

turls - nothing wrong with trying to save some money

Buzz
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post #5 of 48
7/28/10 at 4:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyari View Post

White_worm, my understanding is with the Gefen, the purpose is to find a tv set whose EDID can except multiple types of 3D signals which would give you more connection options. The Mits WD738 series is still waiting on a firmware update that will provide more 3D option...so no don`t use the Mits..use a New Samsung 7000 or 8000 3DTV`s EDID and you should be find. Since HDCP is required, I would think you would leave it on.

Compatible TVs are delineated here.

Buzz
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post #6 of 48
7/28/10 at 5:22am
You might also try hooking the source directly to the 3dc-100 and not the AVR.
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post #7 of 48
7/28/10 at 6:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmanias View Post

You might also try hooking the source directly to the 3dc-100 and not the AVR.

Yes, I've tried that, still no go

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

White_Worm - this might be too simple, but even you never know:

Are you hooked into HDMI 3?
Is HDMI 3 renamed "PC"?
When the HLXXA750 recognizes 3D you won't see it until you choose tools, 3D Effect. Left click one time.

Buzz

Yes, the only HDMI I've used it on is 3, and its named PC. I've also enabled the 3d mode before and after turning on the source. The screen turns reddish, but the glasses compensate nicely. I've tried both 3d mode 1 and 2. Also, I've tried putting the adapter into 3d mode SBS and TB, still nothing. Maybe it has something to do with the order everything is turned on? Or plugged in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyari View Post

White_worm, my understanding is with the Gefen, the purpose is to find a tv set whose EDID can except multiple types of 3D signals which would give you more connection options. The Mits WD738 series is still waiting on a firmware update that will provide more 3D option...so no don`t use the Mits..use a New Samsung 7000 or 8000 3DTV`s EDID and you should be find. Since HDCP is required, I would think you would leave it on.

But only a Mits 3d DLP EDID will allow the 3dc-1000 to work, correct? So I can't use a Samsung EDID.

I think I'll try going back to UE tonight and program the EDID from a A90, they had one running in the showroom. But from the diagram I listed above, does it look like my flow is hooked up correctly? Also, it *may* be possibly an issue with the HDMI cables, I'm not sure which ones are 1.3a and which are an older version. I did already try switching the HDMI cables around to see if it would change anything, but no luck. I have 6 HDMI cables from monoprice coming today or tomorrow, so I can eliminate that possibility when they arrive.
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post #8 of 48
7/28/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by White_Worm View Post


Yes, the only HDMI I've used it on is 3, and its named PC. I've also enabled the 3d mode before and after turning on the source. The screen turns reddish, but the glasses compensate nicely. I've tried both 3d mode 1 and 2. Also, I've tried putting the adapter into 3d mode SBS and TB, still nothing. Maybe it has something to do with the order everything is turned on? Or plugged in?

I also have an HL67A750. My 3D source is a Panasonic 350 BD player outputting checkerboard. If no 3D source is available the 3D Effects line under the user menu is grayed out and when I press TOOLS the top line is Device List. If the 350 is playing a 3D BD 3D EFFECTS is enabled and pressing TOOLS displays 3D EFFECTS on the top line.

Buzz
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post #9 of 48
7/28/10 at 8:39am
The Gefen when programmed with a Mits 3D ready TV's EDID and will enable DirecTV to output it's 3d Content to the input of the Mits adapter. The Adapter then converts the input to 1080p Checkerboard 3D format for output to your TV.
The current EDID from a 2010 xx738 or xx838 model is not in accordance with the HDMI 1.4 specs since these models do not yet support all of the HDMI 1.4a mandatory formats ony the SbS formats.
The A90 only supports Checkerboard and frame sequential 3D formats just like your 750.
Bypass your Denon until you get everything working. Then try with the Gefan and the adapter between the DirectTV and Denon to see if the Denon will pass through the Checkerboard format without a problem.
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post #10 of 48
7/28/10 at 9:54am
White_Worm,

I received the PM message you sent me. The 4 switch on my Gefen is set to the on position to allow DHCP content. In my opinion I believe you need to put your Gefen before your Denon A/V Receiver because of the EDID information and an HDMI 1.3 A/V receiver can not pass a 3D signal but can pass a 3D Checkerboard signal from my research.

I would power things on and off to try to get the 3DA-1 to recognize the new EDID code from the Gefen. I tried the 3DA-1 initially without the Gefen and it would not work. I then had to power things on and off until everything worked properly an I was able to watch 3D on my Samsung HL61A750.

I have posted everything else regarding my setup at this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1265912
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post #11 of 48
7/28/10 at 10:10am
Thread Starter 
My AVR uses HDMI 1.4 (Denon AVR 591), so that shouldn't be an issue. The thing is, I did get Invincible Tiger working great on the TV by sending the xbox through the recevier, then to the 3da-1, then to the gefen, then the TV. So it works, sorta. But the problem is none of my sources will recognize my TV as being 3D.

I'm not sure how changing the order will help right now anyway, because last night I tried hooking the source (all of them, separately) up to the 3da-1(which goes to the gefen, then the TV) but it still didn't work.

Thats the main issue I need to solve now, the recognition.
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post #12 of 48
7/28/10 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I also have an HL67A750. My 3D source is a Panasonic 350 BD player outputting checkerboard. If no 3D source is available the 3D Effects line under the user menu is grayed out and when I press TOOLS the top line is Device List. If the 350 is playing a 3D BD 3D EFFECTS is enabled and pressing TOOLS displays 3D EFFECTS on the top line.

Buzz

Thats an interesting point, Buzz. I had no trouble enabling 3D at any point last night, where normally the TV doesn't want to do it. That must mean that the TV is considering the mits adapter as a 3d source, thus enabling 3D mode to be turned on. Maybe that has something to do with my recognition problem.
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post #13 of 48
7/28/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by White_Worm View Post

I did get Invincible Tiger working great on the TV by sending the xbox through the recevier, then to the 3da-1, then to the gefen, then the TV. So it works, sorta.

Doesn't Invincible Tiger output checkerboard? If so then the 3da-1 and gefen don't have to do any conversion to see 3d, just pass the checkerboard signal through. That game should workout without the 3da-1 in the chain at all.
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post #14 of 48
7/28/10 at 11:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltm View Post

Doesn't Invincible Tiger output checkerboard? If so then the 3da-1 and gefen don't have to do any conversion to see 3d, just pass the checkerboard signal through. That game should workout without the 3da-1 in the chain at all.

Yes, but it also outputs SBS. Theres an option menu that you select your 3d type from and adjust the settings (depth bias, etc). I tried checkerboard initially, but then I saw the SBS setting and tried that. The TV did its usual "split-screen" thing, then I turned on the 3da-1 and the picture went back to a single field. I then turned the 3D mode on the tv to type 1 and everything started working.
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post #15 of 48
7/28/10 at 12:26pm
I get it now, I wasn't aware of the SbS option.
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post #16 of 48
7/28/10 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
And honestly, Invincible Tiger is the only thing that gives me any indication that the Gefen is programmed correctly. I tried using the 3DA-1 to the TV without the Gefen in between and a msg appeared on my TV saying "This TV is not compatible", and the message was from the 3DA-1 (same font/color/posistion as when it is working normally).

Maybe when I get home tonight my monoprice HDMI cables will have arrived, and everything will work. Probably not though.

Can anyone give me a guess as to why my sources aren't recognizing my TV as being 3D? I'll try anything at this point! Thanks
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post #17 of 48
7/28/10 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by White_Worm View Post

My AVR uses HDMI 1.4 (Denon AVR 591), so that shouldn't be an issue. The thing is, I did get Invincible Tiger working great on the TV by sending the xbox through the recevier, then to the 3da-1, then to the gefen, then the TV. So it works, sorta. But the problem is none of my sources will recognize my TV as being 3D.

I'm not sure how changing the order will help right now anyway, because last night I tried hooking the source (all of them, separately) up to the 3da-1(which goes to the gefen, then the TV) but it still didn't work.

Thats the main issue I need to solve now, the recognition.

The Denon may still be producing an EDID conflict due to the crazy way manufacturers are using EDID for 3D.
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post #18 of 48
7/28/10 at 3:39pm
The Mits adapter only ouputs 3D content in Checkerboard format over HDMI and it only accepts as inputs HDMI 1.4A 3D formats. Your TV will only accept HDMI 1.4a SbS 3D format if it is sent directly to TV by your source over HDMI.
If your sourc will output 3D checkrboard format you have not need for using the adapter or the Gefen.
In any case having the Gefen after the adapter does not enable DirecTV to output to the adapter sinc th Adapter only provide it's own EDID data to any sources conncted to it.
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post #19 of 48
7/28/10 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
Well, I got the PS3 working in 3D! I took the avr out of the loop, just like I did last night, but this time I startes switching hdmi cables around. Finally found a combo that works, but I suspect it has a lot more to do with the order that hdmis are plugged in and turned on.

Once the ps3 worked, I put the avr back in the loop but my tv kept saying "mode not supported". So I started turning things off and swapping cables again. Now its working with perfect 5.1 trueHD audio.

Now to get the D* working...
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post #20 of 48
7/28/10 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

turls - nothing wrong with trying to save some money

I didn't say there was. What I have is the problem with the bashing instead of just moving along to a cheaper, likely less supported solution.
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post #21 of 48
7/28/10 at 7:06pm
Thread Starter 
I can't get the D* or the sony 3D blu-ray player to recognize my 3D setup. Perhaps if I understood the handshake order better. Can someone break it down for me?
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post #22 of 48
7/29/10 at 4:49am
In order to output to your samsung the Gefen containng the Mits EDID data must be connected must be connected to the output of the adapter.
And the sources must be connected to the iinput of the adapter

D* or Blu-ray source>Adapter>Gefen>Samsung TV

Don't try and put the Denon back in between the source and the adapter till you get the above working.
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post #23 of 48
7/29/10 at 6:55am
Thread Starter 
What I'm wondering is when the handshake happens, and exactly what information is sent at that time.

When I got the PS3 to work it was after swapping cables. The Gefen is powered by the HDMI cables that are plugged in to it, so I'm pretty sure the Gefen lost power at some point, but then it started working. So getting this to work could be as simple as the sequence that you plug the HDMI cables in. Or it could be the order that the connected devices are turned on.

I understand that the D* box is picky about 3DTVs, but I really cant figure out why my new Sony 3D blu-ray player wont recognize the 3D. All I know is so far I've only gotten the PS3 to recognize 3D, and it had something to do with swapping the HDMI cables.

I'm really hoping for a solution to this soon. Its wonderful having 3D on at least one source, but I'd like it to work on all sources.
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post #24 of 48
7/29/10 at 7:20am
A handshake occurs on every transmission as an acknowldgemnt is sent for every tranmission sent.
Is your BR player conncted as shown above? And have a 3D BR disk in it?
Is th output from the adapter conncted to the same HDMI port on the TV that worked for the PS3?
The Gefen can be programed with the EDID from any Mits 3D ready DLP TV.
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post #25 of 48
7/29/10 at 7:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

A handshake occurs on every transmission as an acknowldgemnt is sent for every tranmission sent.
Is your BR player conncted as shown above?

Yes, BR player>3da-1>gefen>TV
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

And have a 3D BR disk in it?

Yes, it contains the Disney showcase that came with the Mits adapter. When I try to play it, it first asks me to select the language, then says something about congratulations about purchasing the thing, then goes to a black screen with white text that says "the blu-ray player has detected that it is connected to a non-3D tv. For best performance....blah blah blah." Or something to that effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Is th output from the adapter conncted to the same HDMI port on the TV that worked for the PS3?

Yes, HDMI 3. Its the only one on the TV that accepts 3D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The Gefen can be programed with the EDID from any Mits 3D ready DLP TV.

It must have the right one in it, because if I try to plug in the adapter without the Gefen I get a message on screen from the adapter that says "This display is not compatible". Plus, I did get the PS3 working perfectly last night (better than expected, actually), so the adapter must be doing its thing.

Should I try to turn the adapter on to a 3D mode (on the 3da-1 itself, not the TV) before turning other sources on? Or should the TV itself be in 3D mode (if applicable) before turning the source on? What order do you guys think the HDMI cables should be plugged in, and what order should the devices be powered on?
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post #26 of 48
7/29/10 at 9:02am
Walford This is a little off topic. I noticed you said the adaptor only inputs 1.4 3d signals. I just received the kit but i'm not home to set it up. We get Time Warner Cable which sends their signal through their HD cable box. It's side by side. Do you know if it will go through a 1.3 a/v receiver to the adaptor or is it similar to the directv signals? Thanks
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post #27 of 48
7/29/10 at 11:40am
WW,
Which Sony 3D BR player do you have and when did you get it?
At least you know that it will send through and display 2D content to your Samsung.
Your TV may have a setting for 3D incoming content check both your TV, Gefen, and adapter user's manual for setting options on turning on sequencs.
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post #28 of 48
7/29/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelB64 View Post

Walford This is a little off topic. I noticed you said the adaptor only inputs 1.4 3d signals. I just received the kit but i'm not home to set it up. We get Time Warner Cable which sends their signal through their HD cable box. It's side by side. Do you know if it will go through a 1.3 a/v receiver to the adaptor or is it similar to the directv signals? Thanks

1080i and 720p Side-by-Side formats are both mandatory 1.4a HDMI format. Your TWC 3D programs will work fine with out a A/V receiver. I have no idea if your A/V will pass them through untouched, some do and some don't.
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post #29 of 48
7/30/10 at 6:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

WW,
Which Sony 3D BR player do you have and when did you get it?
At least you know that it will send through and display 2D content to your Samsung.
Your TV may have a setting for 3D incoming content check both your TV, Gefen, and adapter user's manual for setting options on turning on sequencs.

Its a BRD-S470. I updated the firmware last night, hoping it would start working, but it didn't.

Honestly this whole issue could be solved if 3D sources could just force 3D on. Everything in the setup is compatible with 3D (as my PS3 proves), but nothing is being recognized with 3D.

I'll look at the manuals tonight, but IIRC they say very little about 3D modes. Any other suggestions in the meantime would help greatly. I'll try anything at this point to get D* and my 3D Blu-Ray working!
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post #30 of 48
7/30/10 at 7:06am
As long as all of your HDMI cables are high speed cables you should not have a problem unless your Gefen does not have 3D MIts EDID loaded.
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