Marantz AV7005 - Page 8

It's not really clear whether AV7005 will surpass or even match AV8003 in terms of sound quality, so I'd not call it successor just yet.

I'll give ya that unclemat...

No question - if they are cutting price, they may have cut corners as well.

Heres to hoping they keep it close... An 8003 would work for me in my 5.1 bedroom setup as well... though I would really prefer to have XT pro over the standard version...

Yep...Onkyo is heading to Walmart and that is where they belong in my book. The Integra 9.8 was the right choice for me at the time but I cant wait for the Marantz Av7005 to be the centerpiece of my dedicated room and the Integra is being demoted to a secondary room.

Please, There isnt any data out there to support your very subjective claim. You are unlucky with Onkyo but that is just you. Im still happy with the Onkyo 885, nothing else has beat it in measurements (many do match it) and properly controlled listening tests show people who claim MOUNTAINS of differences are just subjective windbags online The truth is far, far less exagerrated (Yeah, no one does it right ) and Im in no need of new features this year.

Saying all that, the 7005 definitely looks like a great choice if Onkyo has screwed up with you too many times.

Im pretty sure I will own it in late 2011 or early 2012 when its well under $1K. No need to jump in early.....thats just a diasater waiting to happen, but good luck

1. If you can't measure a difference, you can't hear a difference.

2. If you truly hear a difference, you will measure a difference.

3. However, if you measure a difference, you won't necessarily hear a difference.

Whether you agree or disagree with those statements determines whether you belong on AVSCIENCE or some 'Golden Ear Audiophile" forum.

As a longtime Onkyo owner, I can say there are several knocks against the brand (questionable initial quality, AVRs you can fry an egg on, etc), but to claim that Onkyo Pre/Pro/Receivers sound night-and-day different from other brands that measure identically indeed smacks of "subjective windbag"-ism.

Yes, as long as you know what you should be measuring and have equipment able to measure it.


IF you know what characteristic has caused the difference, and are able to measure that difference.

And then denon and onkyo refurbs will being showing up in Biglots or the Dollar stores

God..I hope you are wrong on the disaster part...I am in dire need of a plug and play when this comes out as I have been wronged by this hobby in recent months.

I will say my Integra 9.8 has been reliable and I have had little issues with it...So there is a plus..

I had no problem with my Onkyo Pro unit and it was doing a great job for the price, but you can not compare it to the Marantz or other higher priced units.

Hopefully the AV7005 will be equally as good as the AV8003 (I still think Marantz should fire the manager of the department that names their product), but I have serious reservations that (as stated above) they have cut corners. My guess is that it will sound good/comparable to Onkyo units , but that the AV8003 will still sound better. But I really hope not.

I have the same concerns. However, they will have saved money on the 7005 vs the 8003 by:

* Not putting it in a copper plated chassis

* Not using fancy looking gold plated connectors on the back

* Cutting the balanced input out

* Not going for THX certification, with the licensing cost this involves

Most of these IMO are not worth the cost incurred in terms of sound quality improvement.

Plus, as technology and expertise move on, manufacturers can achieve the same quality for lower cost.

Also, maybe Marantz just decided to accept a lower margin on the 7005? There's a recession on, I hear, maybe they feel an increased need to be competitive.

Add to the above - no "S" video inputs or outputs and no decoding of DSD signals from SACD discs.

Or maybe it will be the bridge to a Flagship type product, mass market this unit and release a higher end statement unit... but if it hasn't been announced by this point I'm doubting its coming....


Is there some link to the GUI for a Onkyo / Integra ?

Why some of these units still support these legacy connections is beyond me. I would love to know the percentage of people that actually still use them.

Don't get the DSD debate heated up again I have finally gotten over it.

+1.... why anyone would need or want to use svideo or composite is goofy to me, but hey to each their own.

The DSD is not a big deal for me, I just let an external device decode it and out to my prepro it goes...

I can't think of a single device that I have that I'm running s-video for. I either use component or HDMI for all my video. As for DSD I'm not an SACD guy so I don't need it.

I have never used S-Video. Ever. No need for analog video anywhere near the receiver either.

DSD would be nice, only if DAC in the receiver was better than in the player.

DSD was a feature that I really looked for in a pre-pro. Many have told me that you cant tell/hear the difference between raw DSD and DSD that has been converted to PCM and others have told me they all convert it to PCM and I am getting hung up on a light on my display that says DSD when I play an SACD...

My head is ready to explode.

Well, yeah, if you want to run the signal thru DSP for equalization, then on-board DCD decoding would be nice, to avoid DCD->PCM conversion. In a direct mode you would just run analog out from a SACD player to the receiver, avoiding further A/D and D/A conversions.

^^
I have an OPPO 83 universal player and only run hdmi from the unit to the processor.

Then you would like DCD decoding in the receiver. I run DV-58AV and use analog outs in addition to HDMI.

Yeah I stream music with my popcorn hour from my server and it spits out 5.1 with SACD or dvd audio.

Wat? Popcorn hour does not support SACD (nothing but actual SACD players does), nor DVD-Audio AFAIK.

Hmmm maybe I'm wrong - I am running a D2v so maybe thats doing the decoding..

I'm looking at something for my secondary system...

If you are applying processing (bass management, room correction/EQ, etc.), you are converting to PCM somewhere, either in the player or in the surround processor. I've never heard of a single audio processor that could do anything with DSD data, so a DSD input had to either go straight to the DAC's (assuming the DAC's could handle DSD, which many can't) or get converted to PCM.

^^^

Here we go...

And there's nothing wrong with Gonk helping to educate me and others.

I've found him to be incredibly knowledgeable!

His review and experience with Oppo's BDP-83 is exemplary.

I welcome his comments!

You might be right. In that case native decoding of DSD is only useful when the transport's DAC is worse than the receiver's DAC, which usually is not the case.

I assume that DSD->PCM convertion can be done equally as well by anything.

Hopefully we don't get too derailed with DSD/PCM debate, so I'll keep this brief.

Here's my take on it (for what it's worth): preserving the DSD bitstream makes sense in exactly two cases. Case 1: When you are going to deliver it directly to DSD-capable DAC's. Case 2: When you expect to convert to PCM inside the processor (which allows for bass management, matrix processing modes like Pro Logic IIx or Pro Logic IIz, and room correction/EQ) and the source player's DSD-to-PCM conversion is audibly inferior to your processor's DSD-to-PCM conversion.

Case 1 has become pretty rare, both because most folks running HDMI processors want to use all the fancy tools like EQ and bass management and because DSD-capable DAC's are the exception, not the rule. Also, in some cases we have players with good DSD-capable DAC's. Both the stock BDP-83 and the BDP-83SE employ DSD-capable DAC's and can be configured to deliver DSD straight to them, without any PCM conversion. The drawback to this scheme is that you sacrifice bass management unless you can do it in the analog domain. (Anybody remember Outlaw's ICBM-1?)

Case 2 involves being able to evaluate the quality of DSD-to-PCM conversion. In my limited experience, I've not found appreciable differences. In my reading on the subject, I've seen about as many cases where people made comparisons and preferred the player's conversion as I've seen the processor preferred. Based on that, I've reached a point where I see DSD support in a processor to be a nice feature to have but not something that I'm going to get hung up on. I'm comfortable letting my player convert to PCM.

^^

I do as well as this is an area that I am clearly out of my depth. I just know this sparks debates.

I am going to show how much of a audio idiot I am right now by asking this.

With my current set-up of my OPPO 83 feed via HDMI to my Integra 9.8 I pop in an SACD and the display lights up DSD and it all is well.

When I change over to the AV7005 and feed the AV7005 only an HDMI connection from my OPPO and pop in an SACD knowing the AV7005 does not support DSD over HDMI will it I be able to play SACD's over HDMI at all? If is the sequence in which the disc is read and processed?

Thanks everyone...

You will be, Oppo will convert DSD to PCM and send it this way over HDMI.