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Marantz AV7005 - Page 300

post #8971 of 9615
The Oppo 93 has no LFE+Main setting for its Multichannel sub out.

P.S. "Both" is a rather silly mode if you ask me. Audyssey concurs it shouldn't be used:

"We recommend that if there is a subwoofer in the system, then all speakers should be set to Small and the sub mode should be LFE (not LFE+Main)."

This "double bass" option was invented to appease customers who feel upset the extended low frequency response of their large, main speakers serves no purpose. {I'm not kidding, BTW}
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 12:06pm
post #8972 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

[emphasis mine]
Although it may illuminate and allow one to "set it", in truth there is no such control for the 7.1 Multichannel analog input on the AV7005. It is a direct, unprocessed input which has no bass management control of any kind. What comes into each of the 7.1 (8) RCA ports is what comes out; no mixing or sound manipulation is allowed, other than level.

I have run the Audessey on the 7005, and I currently have the mains set to "large", an I thought I had the Oppo set to LFE+Main, but I will recheck it. I had assumed that the 7.1 input was a "what comes in is what goes out", which is why I am curious as to why I am not getting my sub to go on. If I had choosen "direct", then I would have guessed there would be no sub output, but I have not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Are you sure what you are perceiving as "better" isn't just somewhat "louder" audio using the 7.1 analog inputs? Do you have a SPL meter (or smart phone app) you can use to confirm? Regardless, if you prefer to use the 7.1 analog input, in this configuration, the speakers are treated as LARGE, so you'll need to set the sub to LFE+Main in order to pass the lower frequencies (below their crossover setting) from the FL/FR speakers to the sub.

That is possible, but to me it sounded clearer, with more separation, and less muddled. I do have a SPL meter, but I did not try that.

Thanks for the responses, not only is this communication a good source for trouble shooting, but educational as well.
post #8973 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

The Oppo 93 has no LFE+Main setting for its Multichannel sub out.
P.S. "Both" is a rather silly mode if you ask me. Audyssey concurs it shouldn't be used:
"We recommend that if there is a subwoofer in the system, then all speakers should be set to Small and the sub mode should be LFE (not LFE+Main)."
This "double bass" option was invented to appease customers who feel upset the extended low frequency response of their large front speaker serves no purpose. {I'm not kidding, BTW}

I am sure Audessey has its reasons, but I have no problem letting my Klipsch RF7s with dual 10" woofers handle some of the frequency response below 80 hz.
post #8974 of 9615
Always trust your eyes and ears. They never lie rolleyes.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 1:24pm
post #8975 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post

I am sure Audessey has its reasons, but I have no problem letting my Klipsch RF7s with dual 10" woofers handle some of the frequency response below 80 hz.

I'm not a fan either of cutting of capable speakers at 80Hz. If I Googled correctly, these are the specs of your speaker "FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 32Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB"

Personally, I would set these as small with a 40Hz crossover. My Kef Reference 4 speakers have very similar specs (Frequency response: 35Hz to 20kHz +/-3dB at 2m on reference axis) and I run these also with small/40Hz. Some might argue to change the crossover to 60Hz, but 80Hz is a waste for such a high quality speaker.

Just my $0.02
post #8976 of 9615
Deleted due to some weird multiple posting problem. Not me.
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 2:46pm
post #8977 of 9615
Deleted due to some weird multiple posting problem. Not me.
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 2:47pm
post #8978 of 9615
Deleted due to some weird multiple posting problem. Not me.
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 2:50pm
post #8979 of 9615
Deleted due to some weird multiple posting problem. Not me.
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 2:50pm
post #8980 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I'm not a fan either of cutting of capable speakers at 80Hz. If I Googled correctly, these are the specs of your speaker "FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 32Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB"

Tell me, was that measurement taken in his room with his speaker placement, or do you think such things are immaterial?
---

Gee, if only they could some day invent some kind of an automatic, computer controlled mechanism which would actually take measurements at the listening position, to not guess, but actually measure the bass response of speakers in the user's actual room...Oh, wait a minute.
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 3:00pm
post #8981 of 9615
Is it possible to set the crossover frequency to different values for every speaker ?! Because my Revel C12, and S30 sorrounds must be crossed at 80 Hz, but the fronts could go lower of course. (My current Parasound can handle only one crossover point for all the speakers)
post #8982 of 9615
You can't pick xover frequencies per speaker, but you can per pair. That is, the FL and FR must match each other, but they may be different than the center, for example.

A good case may be made why raising any xover to 80 Hz, or so, might be a good idea, but if you have the notion that you are going to lower one or more of the crossovers below what the circuitry tells you to use, think again.That's a bad idea from the perspective of sound quality accuracy.
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 3:49pm
post #8983 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post

I am sure Audessey has its reasons, but I have no problem letting my Klipsch RF7s with dual 10" woofers handle some of the frequency response below 80 hz.

Part of the reasoning is that MultEQ XT has 8x more sub filters than speaker filters, therefore lowering the crossover below 80Hz reduces the use of those filters.
post #8984 of 9615
Does anybody get 9 channel playback out of ther 7005. I have a 9 channel amp and it wont let me get all 9 going... Am I missing something here?? Its eith the Rears backs or heights 7 not all 9
post #8985 of 9615
I think your missing something, but not sure what it is.tongue.gif
post #8986 of 9615
enlighten me cause im getting ready to dump this thing and move into a 4520 or Elite SC57 or something
post #8987 of 9615
I guess I'll be the bearer of bad news....the 7005 is not a 9.1 pre-pro. It is 7.1 only.

You get the 5 basics (L&R front, center, and L&R surround) then a choice of either L&R surround back or L&R height or L&R wide.
Edited by whoaru99 - 1/9/13 at 7:36pm
post #8988 of 9615
To the best of my knowledge, there is not a single (commercial) movie theater, anywhere in the US, which uses front heights nor wides. Whether or not the addition of these artificial channels in the home is "beneficial" is arguable, however what isn't arguable is that they are not encoded in the movie soundtrack itself, as either discrete nor intentionally matrixed channels, and were never intended to be, by the recording engineers who made the movie. [And I don't mess with another person's art.]

As far as I'm concerned, these are just ways to sell new receivers, new amps, and more speakers, year after year after year. Funny how retailers seem to universally agree the additional fake channels are always beneficial.rolleyes.gif
Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 8:24pm
post #8989 of 9615
Thanks" Whoaru99 & mzillch"! I appreciate your response & Well said. I kinda figured that but I wanted to make sure I wasnt over looking a Magic Button on the 7005 front panel or something Lol! tongue.gif , I have a 9.1 wired set up and want to make full use of it . Even if its DS X matrix, I want to hear for myself all this rave about 9 channel Heights/Backs on at same time, that them sales reps and others rave about. Now is it worth movin on to a true 9 channel like the 4520,or SC 67 confused.gif
post #8990 of 9615
There's no such thing as a "true" 9 channel system because there's no such thing as a 9 ch source, either at home or in a professional cinema. Those extra channels are synthetic, artificial, and never meant to be.

Movie theaters do indeed have more than just 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, however all those speakers along the side walls (we see) are playing the exact same thing. They are desirable because it more evenly distributes the sound at an even level, regardless of where one sits, when you have many, many rows of seating front to back, which is quite rare for a home cinema, even my friend Darth V.'s:


Edited by m. zillch - 1/9/13 at 10:01pm
post #8991 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

There's no such thing as a "true" 9 channel system because there's no such thing as a 9 ch source, either at home or in a professional cinema. Those extra channels are synthetic, artificial, and never meant to be.

Movie theaters do indeed have more than just 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, however all those speakers along the side walls (we see) are playing the exact same thing. They are desirable because it more evenly distributes the sound at an even level, regardless of where one sits, when you have many, many rows of seating front to back, which is quite rare for a home cinema, even my friend Darth V.'s:

Wow!! eek.gif What a Killer Theater..Ok Thanks for Pointing that out, I wonder if Im Wasting Time &$$ on this 9 channel thing,, I love the7 i get when the soundtracks are Avail:D
post #8992 of 9615
The makers of it are under contractual obligation not to say where the Death Star Theater is, but rumor has it that Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft, knows the location and visits it often.wink.gif
post #8993 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Thanks" Whoaru99 & mzillch"! I appreciate your response & Well said. I kinda figured that but I wanted to make sure I wasnt over looking a Magic Button on the 7005 front panel or something Lol! tongue.gif , I have a 9.1 wired set up and want to make full use of it . Even if its DS X matrix, I want to hear for myself all this rave about 9 channel Heights/Backs on at same time, that them sales reps and others rave about. Now is it worth movin on to a true 9 channel like the 4520,or SC 67 confused.gif

With the 4520CI or AV8801 you can go to 11.2 if you prefer, however, the even bigger gain would be upgrading to the more advanced version of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Sub EQ HT. Also, both models feature "All Zone Stereo" which will allow you to play the same HDMI source playing in the main zone to Zones 2/3 as well as playing an HDMI source (audio/video) to Zone 4.
post #8994 of 9615
There are lots of caveats to the multi zone output ability of the AV8801, including the one I put in boldface which I translate to, "If it doesn't acually work like we advertised in the sales brochure, this disclaimer is here so you can't sue us":

"• You can operate this unit so as to enjoy audio in a room (ZONE2, ZONE3 and ZONE4) other than the
MAIN ZONE (room where the unit is located).
• You can simultaneously play back the same source in both the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2, ZONE3 and ZONE4.
You can also play back separate sources in the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2, ZONE3 and ZONE4.
• When a TV is connected to the HDMI ZONE4 OUT connector, you can play back a video or audio from the
device connected to the HDMI 1 – 6 IN connector in ZONE4 (HDMI ZONE4 function).
The source selected for ZONE2 is also output from the recording output connectors (MEDIA PLAYER).
NOTE
The following restrictions apply to the HDMI ZONE4 function.
• If you select a same input source for MAIN ZONE and ZONE4, audio playback may be restricted or video
may be interrupted.

• Video may not be output depending on the resolution of the TV used for MAIN ZONE and ZONE4. In this
case, use your player to set the resolution of the TV.
• When HDMI ZONE4 function is used, you cannot set the following:

• Picture Adjust • Video Conversion • Aspect Ratio
• Auto Lip Sync • i/p Scaler • Setup menu display
• Video Mode • Progressive Mode"


Also, running HDMI longer than 40 to 45 feet (and it better be a beefy, $$, gauge if you do) can be sketchy regardless of brand, if you even can find a professional installer willing to try. Not some, but rather the majority shun HDMI whole house distribution and will insist on either using component video, or you finding another installer. HDMI is a headache waiting to happen [or what I guess Marantz calls "video interrupted" tongue.gif ] and it's not worth them wasting their time when they know that component video simply works, as expected, in HD resolutions of 1080 and 720, every time.

For the price of the AV8801 I'd rather own two AV7005s (or maybe a AVR4311, with the fancier Audyssey XT32, for the main room) and with the hundreds of dollars saved buy an extra BD player dedicated to zone 2/3/4 which allows swapping discs in that room, er "zone".
Edited by m. zillch - 1/11/13 at 8:37am
post #8995 of 9615
"For the price of the AV8801 I'd rather own two AV7005s (or maybe a AVR4311, with the fancier Audyssey, for the main room) and with the hundreds of dollars saved buy an extra BD player dedicated to zone 2/3/4 which allows swapping discs in that room, er "zone".

Please elaborate when you get time.
post #8996 of 9615
The MSRP of the AV8801 is $3600. Since it is so new, that is also the street price. Buying a new AV7005, plus a Denon AVR4311ci receiver for a secondary room (so you need not worry about "zone outs", if they even really work as you would want them to), from an authorized dealer with free shipping, costs, as of today, $2780. That's a savings of $820 plus I'm additionally getting a dedicated pre-pro with 9 channels of amplification thrown in! With that kind of money I could buy the extra speakers for the kitchen, bedroom, whatever, and a secondary BD player so there's little need to wire the two rooms/systems together.

- independent Audyssey calibration for two rooms, not one only
- dual tuners so people in room 2 can listen to an independent radio station than the one in the other room
- 2 remotes, one left in each room with no need for running back to the other room because "I forgot to bring the remote, hun" [although I use aftermarket remotes]
- no running back to the main room to swap discs either, you do that locally on the system in the room you are standing in
- no wiring the two rooms together with hard to fish through the walls HDMI plugs, which can't be terminated in the field, you need to use the right lengths from the get go, and then praying there isn't something in the EDID/handshake protocol of the two different monitors which makes it not work, er, I mean, "interrupts the signal"wink.gif


There are probably more reasons but I don't have the time to contemplate what they are. What I've already written is more than enough for me and I save money. AS you know, I'm not a fan of 9 or 11 channel setups because they are a bastardization of what the recording engineers wanted us to listen to. They don't use it their control rooms, mixing studios, or in the movie theaters, so I'm not going to either! [unless some day they actually do start distributing movies this way]. It is similar to why I refuse to watch a colorized B/W film; I don't mess with another person's art.

Sure, there will also be people who claim the more expensive unit inherently "sounds better", even if only using the same number of speakers. I think it's simply their imagination due to expectation bias ["placebo effect"] and/or their inability to conduct a proper, valid test which is double blind, level matched to a small fraction of a dB using external instrumentation by the test conductor, and the extreme difficulty in loading the exact same microphone calibration curves taken during the Audyssey test run into the two units being compared. Even nailing down the same mic to a super rigid stand and running the test two times, within a few minutes, may very well generate slightly different results which are audible, and therefor invalidate any hope of comparing the two DUTs [devices under test].
Edited by m. zillch - 1/10/13 at 10:48pm
post #8997 of 9615
The 'street' price of the 8801 is nowhere near retail.
The expectation bias placebo results in a much more detailed rendition of music and movies over the 7005.
post #8998 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

The 'street' price of the 8801 is nowhere near retail.
The expectation bias placebo results in a much more detailed rendition of music and movies over the 7005.

Correct. I got my AV8801 with a significant discount. Also the AV8801 will sound much better than the AV7005.
post #8999 of 9615
Exm

Please keep it scientific for our DBT friends. The expectation bias placebo effect was profound with this unit. Even non purchasers were taken under its spell. But for goodness sake, don't say it sounds better. That can only be verified under laboratory conditions with a statistically significant sample of users - not impossible to do, just expensive and difficult.
In Star Wars terms, the "Force" (expectation bias placebo) is strong with the 8801..
post #9000 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

Exm

Please keep it scientific for our DBT friends. The expectation bias placebo effect was profound with this unit. Even non purchasers were taken under its spell. But for goodness sake, don't say it sounds better. That can only be verified under laboratory conditions with a statistically significant sample of users - not impossible to do, just expensive and difficult.
In Star Wars terms, the "Force" (expectation bias placebo) is strong with the 8801..

If you want to keep it scientific, and don't pay attention to better power supplies, DACs and DA converters, let me say this to you:
Audyssey MultEQ XT32.
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