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Marantz AV7005 - Page 311

post #9301 of 9615
Read post 9292 the word everyone is mentioned twice.
Quote:
Right ... okay .. one person said EVERYBODY ... I stand corrected. tongue.gif

What?
post #9302 of 9615
Unfortunately the majority of people think you select the xover frequency based on your speakers, in truth you should select your speakers, based on the correct frequency: 80 Hz, or so.

If your speakers don't cleanly go down to that frequency, (or a tad lower, just to be safe), you bought inadequate speakers. Conversely, if you buy speakers that go markedly lower than that, yet you plan to use a sub, you've bought larger speakers than you needed to, overkill, and most likely spent too much money.

There are so many of you though, and the audio industry doesn't want to bruise your egos, so they've even invented a special mode just for your poor understanding of why we use bass management and dedicated sub EQ. It's called "LFE + Main" on the AV7005, or generically as "double bass", and for those of you who foolishly "set 'till it sounds right, because you should always trust your ears as to what's accurate",[see my signature if you can handle the truth], I think your gonna just love it. Check it out!

Before the use of Audyssey based room EQ, we used to pick frequencies other than 80Hz, on occasion, to achieve either overlapping or "underlapping" as a way to address, for instance, a peak in the transition range. Now that we have a more sophisticated system to EQ such concerns, that issue goes out the window.

In fact, since Audyssey has many more control points dedicated just to the sub frequencies, if anything we want the sub ch. to handle as much as it possibly can, at least before becoming localizable [what many people incorrectly refer to as "directional"]. What's that frequency, one might ask? 80 Hz! [In laboratory conditions, using special, dedicated test tones, some can even localize down to 40 Hz, but for music and movies, 80 Hz is safe.]

Tom Nousaine, technical editor and chief sub tester at Sound and Vision Magazine for over a decade, agrees with 80 Hz in most applications (and the ones where he doesn't is usually to tame a peak/dip, i.e. EQ, which, remember, we no longer need to do, thanks to RC EQ). He sums it up nicely in the final sentence of this [written before we had Audyssey, etc, RC EQ systems]:
http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Subwoofer%20Secrets.pdf

And also a little company called THX agrees 80 Hz is the correct, go to frequency. All certified designs, including professional, commercial cinemas, must employ it as the default value. Perhaps some of you have heard of them?
Edited by m. zillch - 4/15/13 at 8:31pm
post #9303 of 9615
I'm sorry, but I go by what sounds good to me. There are so many variables in each person's system I disagree with saying one setting is correct for all (or almost all). If you read my post earlier I explained that when I use my subwoofer it shakes the whole house. It's a large room with two sets of French doors (horrible for a home theater, but I'll be moving soon) when I first ran Audyssey it had my subwoofer so loud that nearly all I could hear was every little window in the French doors, pictures on the wall etc rattling. It sounded horrible. You ever hear the kids drive by with all the bass in the car and from the outside all you heard was horrible rattle? That's about what my system sounded like after running Audyssey. As I said.. Room treatments would be my choice, but I'm renting now while looking for a new home.


I would actually like less bass from my subwoofer. I'm after the mid bass that I lost. I want that nice punch without all the rumble. Most of the time I leave the sub off or as low as possible. When I can treat a proper room I'll probably add another sub, but for now I have to make the best out of the room I have. I only asked because I thought someone could inform me of a setting I was missing.


I'm not on forums much, but I've been doing this a long time. I go for what sounds good to me. I don't care what anyone says is "the correct way". If there was a correct way all speakers would sound the same. Each speaker is correct for someone's taste. If I believed everything I read I'd have thousands of dollars worth of cables connecting everything too. I've tried some high end cables, didn't hear a difference and took them back.


I had this system set up with my previous processor and a lot more bass to each speaker. I'll run Audyssey again with the subwoofer off if I have to. I'll get it figured out, and I'll do it by what sounds best to me. Everyone has the right to setup their system any way they want. I think that everyone should experiment with the different settings and chose what sounds best to them.
post #9304 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIN27 View Post

I think that everyone should experiment with the different settings and chose what sounds best to them.

This sentence is pretty much the antithesis of my stated goal (seen in my signature line).tongue.gif

Since you are currently dissatisfied with your overall system's bass:
Quote:
I would actually like less bass from my subwoofer. I'm after the mid bass that I lost. I want that nice punch without all the rumble. Most of the time I leave the sub off or as low as possible.

Why not engage the manual EQ mode then, and set things to what sounds best to you? That would seem to be how you roll, no?

.
Quote:
I'll get it figured out, and I'll do it by what sounds best to me. Everyone has the right to setup their system any way they want. I think that everyone should experiment with the different settings and chose what sounds best to them.
post #9305 of 9615
WIN27,

Have you measured the audio characteristics of your listening environment with a calibrated microphone and a spectrum analysis package like REW?

(See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs )

Your symptoms seem consistent with the subwoofer exciting substantial standing waves and Audyssey's microphone having been placed mostly in locations where there are nulls -- forcing Audyssey to turn up the subwoofer channel's gain in a futile effort to try to combat them.
post #9306 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

This sentence is pretty much the antithesis of my stated goal (seen in my signature line).tongue.gif

Since you are currently dissatisfied with your overall system's bass:
Why not engage the manual EQ mode then, and set things to what sounds best to you? That would seem to be how you roll, no?

.

LOL I'm usually fairly by the book. I'm telling you, it just doesn't sound right. In stereo or direct mode I get half the bass as if I put one of my stereo preamps in its place with no tone controls. It also sounds compressed at high levels. Something is off.

The manual EQ is another option, but I'd prefer to use Audyssey so I can take advantage of all the different modes. I was actually looking for a multi channel analog preamp like the McIntosh C45 to use with the Oppo. But I recently picked up a Marantz PM8004. I was shocked at how good it was. Then I came across a great close out on a new AV7005 and couldn't refuse. I love the looks of it. I know it's trivial, but for years that Integra sat on my rack and I though it was the ugliest piece ever. It was the silver button and knob that drove me nuts. I'm a little OCD

Selden, No I don't have REW or anything like that. That's another good suggestion. When I move I will get everything dialed in correctly. I plan on having my next theater room professionally treated and I'll probably pay to have them calibrate everything as well. I'm really a 2 channel stereo guy. Lately I've been working late a lot and can very rarely play my surround sound. There have been some great recommendations. Unfortunately I don't know when I'll have the time to experiment with them. Again, thanks for all the input
post #9307 of 9615
WIN27

It's funny you mentioned the Marantz PM8004. I had the pleasure of hearing one of these integrateds recently. I was astonished also. So much so that it will probably be my next piece of gear. LOL These retail for $999, but I see them in mint condition used from time to time on Audiogon for 30-40% less than retail. Marantz says it is 70 watts x 2 . That is an extremely consevative rating. This is an excellent piece of gear.
post #9308 of 9615
Yes, the Marantz PM8004 bested some much more expensive equipment I have. I am very happy with it. The build quality is excellent. As far as the power rating... I'd say its pretty accurate. If you like it loud or have inefficient speakers you may want to audition one first. Currently I'm running it with a pair of B&W 804's. It's a great match, but when really pushed the amp does go into protection. 99% of the time it gives me all the volume I could ever want. This replaced much more powerful separates. But at low to normal listening the Marantz out performed them. Where a lot of amps will clip and go beyond their ratings (with distortion) The Marantz just goes into protection. Which is good, it prevents damage to your speakers.

I was looking to buy another for a while. Not many have popped up recently. There were some on eBay over priced with no box, manual, or remote. I wouldn't trust those. How do you not even have a remote for a current model? Accessories4less sells refurbished ones with everything for $750 with warranty.
post #9309 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try switching to RCA interconnects as the XLR serve no real purpose at shorter distance.

I switched to RCA interconnects but there is still a buzz. The amp is hooked up to its own outlet through the cmx2. It does not really bother me but would just like to know what it could be and if it is correctable.
post #9310 of 9615
^Talos13, I bet your buzz would be gone if you plug your amp, AV7005, and source (disc player), all to the SAME AC power strip [even an inexpensive one]. If the noise continues, you may need to additionally disconnect, at least temporarily, the RCA/HDMI wires to your sub and your cable (or satellite) box.

P.S. Leave your Cmx2 out of the picture for now. We can discuss how to integrate it later, once we establish the problem is solved, or at least greatly reduced.
Edited by m. zillch - 4/20/13 at 10:10am
post #9311 of 9615
I just picked up a returned AV7005 from a Magnolia Design Center Best Buy. I have been considering replacing my Rotel RSP-1066 (which I've had for 10 years !) just to update, and had been eyeing grabbing one of these before they're all gone. Fast forward to yesterday when I walk into the Magnolia, see a manager I know, ask if there are any extra 7005s laying around and presto-a guy just returned one because he upgraded to the 8801. It looks new and comes with the full three-year warranty. But accessories are an issue. They didn't get the remote back, so he gave me a remote that goes with the SR-7707. Any issues here? I have a Harmony One anyway, so I'm not sure it's a big deal. There was no audyssey microphone. He gave me another type of mic to use for basic setup, and ordered another microphone from Marantz that will be delivered to my house in a few weeks. I'm going to wait until I have the new microphone before installing. I need to do some reading as this came out of the blue.
Edited by Maccur - 4/21/13 at 12:06pm
post #9312 of 9615
I think the remote should work for most of what you need. You could try the mic as it will only waste a few minutes of your time. Heck who knows it may work better.
post #9313 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccur View Post

I just picked up a returned AV7005 from a Magnolia Design Center Best Buy. I have been considering replacing my Rotel RSP-1066 (which I've had for 10 years !) just to update, and had been eyeing grabbing one of these before they're all gone. Fast forward to yesterday when I walk into the Magnolia, see a manager I know, ask if there are any extra 7005s laying around and presto-a guy just returned one because he upgraded to the 8801. It looks new and comes with the full three-year warranty. But accessories are an issue. They didn't get the remote back, so he gave me a remote that goes with the SR-7701. Any issues here? I have a Harmony One anyway, so I'm not sure it's a big deal. There was no audyssey microphone. He gave me another type of mic to use for basic setup, and ordered another microphone from Marantz that will be delivered to my house in a few weeks. I'm going to wait until I have the new microphone before installing. I need to do some reading as this came out of the blue.

The Harmony One should work even better than the stock remote once you get the remote codes downloaded from Logitech. Unless the mic is labeled DM-A409, ACM1H, or ACH1HB, just wait until the correct mic comes from Marantz before running Audyssey as other mics are not designed for this purpose.
post #9314 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

^Talos13, I bet your buzz would be gone if you plug your amp, AV7005, and source (disc player), all to the SAME AC power strip [even an inexpensive one]. If the noise continues, you may need to additionally disconnect, at least temporarily, the RCA/HDMI wires to your sub and your cable (or satellite) box.

P.S. Leave your Cmx2 out of the picture for now. We can discuss how to integrate it later, once we establish the problem is solved, or at least greatly reduced.

I have done all that already multiple times under different conditions with the wires for the speakers just being plugged in and then adding each of the components one at a time. Its veen plugges in to just the wall, another conditioner and just a cheap multiple outlet line. Hum was still present. Like I said it does not really bother me and it is not audible from my listening position. Love the unit though. Thanks for your help
post #9315 of 9615
If there's no noise from the listening position, that's about all you can ask for.smile.gif
post #9316 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by talos13 View Post

I recently acquired a av7005 and I am having a slight hum in the center channel only. There is some noise in the remaining channels but no were as loud as in the center channel. I am using a emotive xpa-5 with monoprice xlr interconnects. The noise is not as loud or pronounced with just the amp running but when the pre comes on after running its checks the buzzing starts. It's not that bad from my listening position but still slightly audible. Should I try changing my interconnects to RCA or switch out my center channel speaker wire first? I though it my be a ground loop issue with another component but I in plugged all the hdmi from the other components but it was still there. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talos13 View Post

I switched to RCA interconnects but there is still a buzz. The amp is hooked up to its own outlet through the cmx2. It does not really bother me but would just like to know what it could be and if it is correctable.

I would say to suspect the emotive since you hear this through both rca and xlr interconnects. As you state you here the buzz even before the av7005 comes on. Were both the components new? If you could I'd tell you to borrow an amp and see if humming persists. If you got an open box deal on either one of these I'd say suspect that component. As for switching cables you could simply swap some cables around say for the L/R speakers with the center cable. There should be no humming noise coming out of your speakers. Good Luck.
post #9317 of 9615
Thanks for the reply.

I just got done unhooking the rca's from the pre-pro and turning the amp on and there was still some hum. I then unhooked the rca's from the amp and turned it on with just the speakers hooked up and there was no more hum but a hell of a lot of hiss out of the tweeters. I then plugged each of the rca's in one by one turning the amp off and then on after each one was installed. This was were it got a little weird. I plugged in the speaker rca in first and there was no hum or hiss being emitted from the speaker. I then plugged in the right front and there was also no hum. I plugged in the left front and the hum was back in all three fronts. What would cause this? Some kind of bleed across the amps? I then plugged in the right rear rca to the amp and while there was no hum there was a lot of hiss in the left and right and then when I had both the left and right rca plugged in the hiss went away and the hum diminished somewhat.

The best way I can describe the hum is like a power line hum. You know when you are outside on a hot day and you can hear the power lines. Its kind of in the background of everything. That is the best way I can describe it I guess.

I am using a new XPA-5 and a refurb AV7005. I am using Klipsch ref 82 and matching center and surrounds. The speaker wire are new monoprice 12 awg wire.
post #9318 of 9615
XPA5 gain factor: 32 dB
Klipsch RF 82 (II) efficiency: 98 dB/2.38V/1M

You are probably going to have hum/hiss no matter what you do, short of installing in-line attenuators.
post #9319 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The Harmony One should work even better than the stock remote once you get the remote codes downloaded from Logitech. Unless the mic is labeled DM-A409, ACM1H, or ACH1HB, just wait until the correct mic comes from Marantz before running Audyssey as other mics are not designed for this purpose.

Thanks for the advice. I need to read up on Audyssey because I've only used a Ratshack meter the past 14 years or so with Avia. I feel a bit behind the times.
post #9320 of 9615
^^
In this instance, the Radio Shack mic is used only to level set the speakers/sub whereas the Audyssey mic is calibrated for the purpose of "EQing" the speakers/sub.
post #9321 of 9615
I need help. I just purchased two subwoofers (SVS PC12-NSD's) and hooked the subs up from the Marantz AV7005 preouts using the SW1 to one sub and the SW2 to the other sub but from the SW2 preout I am not getting any sound. I'm sure I am missing a menu item that needs to figure it out but not sure which one.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ted
post #9322 of 9615
The two sub outs are identical on this unit. You can think of them as effectively being an internal "Y-cord" split, and there is no way to independently adjust them in any way, including on/off.

In your instance, the jack must be broken or the cord you are using is faulty. In lieu of having it fixed , you also could simply split the functional one with an external y-cord.

Using two subs can potentially be problematic. If for example, simply due to room placement differences {boundary reinforcement} one plays at 3 to 6 dB louder than the other one, measured at the seated position, then the addition of the secondary one has a net gain of zillch to your overall system. What a waste of money! It is important that the two play at the same perceived level [not to be confused with "their volume knobs being placed at the same value"] in order to reap the benefits of using two subs. I describe a way to do this earlier in the thread by simply measuring one during the auto calibration mic sequence, then running the test again but using only the secondary sub, rotating its volume knob until the AV7005 chooses to set the output for the sub channel to the same value, give or take a dB, and only finally then combining the two and running the Audyssey sequence one final time, once they have been carefully "matched" using my described method. [Higher end units do this for you, electronically.]

The relative phase of the two subs to each other ("distance") is also important, but not nearly as much as people make it out to be, and not for the reasons they think. Try to keep them roughly the same distance to the ear though, but being a couple of feet off isn't going to kill you.
Edited by m. zillch - 4/25/13 at 6:31pm
post #9323 of 9615
n
post #9324 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

XPA5 gain factor: 32 dB
Klipsch RF 82 (II) efficiency: 98 dB/2.38V/1M

You are probably going to have hum/hiss no matter what you do, short of installing in-line attenuators.

Thanks for the reply.

Could you elaborate a little on this please? Any help would be appreciated.
post #9325 of 9615
Your amp boosts the signal about 3 to 5 dB more than most amps [although I have a vague recollection Emotiva said they were thinking to change this down the road] and your speakers are very efficient compared to average, meaning they will play a weak signal more loudly than most. Neither of these things are necessarily "bad", however this signal they play more loudly than most is ANY kind of a signal, including the ones called "hiss" and "hum".

Short of moving to a larger room, so you sit at a much greater distance from each of the speakers, the solution that comes to mind is in-line attenuators between the prepro and amp.

Also, after running Audyssey with your current setup,if any of the speaker trim levels displays "-12 dB" [which wouldn't surprise me], that would additionally indicate you need to get attenuators, even if you didn't personally have any problem with the hiss/hum level.
Edited by m. zillch - 4/26/13 at 12:10am
post #9326 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by talos13 View Post

Thanks for the reply.

Could you elaborate a little on this please? Any help would be appreciated.

Hey Talos, did you just buy the Emotiva? I run all Klipsch RF-7II's for surround sound with a AV7005. I've had multiple preamps and amps in there. The only ones that gave me a problem were the Emotiva's. I spent hours on the phone with Emotiva, ordered a new line conditioner with voltage regulation, tried new wires, etc. I ended up returning them.

What m. zillch said about the high gain is dead on. I had the hiss coming from the XPA-2 which I couldn't hear from my listening position. The XPA-5 had the hiss, but also a low frequency hum, which I could hear from my seat. If you google your amp and hum or hiss you'll see many others that had the same problem. I posted on the Emotiva forum a couple years ago when I had my issues, and they deleted my thread instantly!

My advice, if you can return the amps.. do it. You can get something much better on the used market for around the same or less money. Also if you check the Klipsch forum there's a lot of people there that had the same issues. The line attenuators may fix the problem, but if it was me I'd rather have a better quality amp that's dead quiet.
post #9327 of 9615
Is there anyway I can suppress the bass from the subwoofer on the Marantz AV-7005? I had to move to an apartment, and I have a great sub that outputs clean bass below 20 Hz, but my neighbors hate it. My speakers aren't full range, so I need a sub for them to sound right. Is there anyway I can suppress anything below 40 Hz from reaching the sub? It's a great sub, but not for an apartment.

I have the Marantz AV-7005. I with there were a way to set a different crossover frequency for different channels? My normal crossover is 90 Hz for the 5 center, main, surround speakers. So if I could hook the sub up to "B" main speakers and set the crossover at 40 Hz that would be great, but I don't think there is an option to do that.

I need help.

I'm sure I could set the crossover to 40 Hz for all speakers and hook the sub up to "B" speakers, but that would have ~65-90 Hz playing out of my other 5 speakers causing an annoying muddy mid-bass hump.

Goal: Suppress anything below 90 Hz to the main speakers and suppress anything BELOW 40 Hz to the sub, so the neighbors stop complaining.
post #9328 of 9615
I think the neighbors are annoying by both deep bass and the mid bass room nodes. The sub EQ does a great job suppressing the mid bass room nodes, but I don't know how to suppress it's deep bass.
post #9329 of 9615
Noise leaking to neighbors has little to do with your particular room nodes or what crossover frequency you select.

This may help.
post #9330 of 9615
In this case it is - I don't play all that loud - it's just the low bass vibrations.
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