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Marantz AV7005 - Page 313

post #9361 of 9615
Thanks, avman09. I look forward to your results. Take all the time you need, no rush. I'd rather you be careful and methodical rather than rush to post.

[I'm sure many people outside of this thread would be interested too. Maybe you should start a new thread about it (since LFC is now found in several devices people might be curious about) ? Just a thought. smile.gif ]
Edited by m. zillch - 5/16/13 at 7:44pm
post #9362 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Thanks, avman09. I look forward to your results. Take all the time you need, no rush. I'd rather you be careful and methodical rather than rush to post.

[I'm sure many people outside of this thread would be interested too. Maybe you should start a new thread about it (since LFC is now found in several devices people might be curious about) ? Just a thought. smile.gif ]

I tested frequencies between 36 hz to 160 hz. It appears to be just an attenuator on a sliding scale. Physics prevails once again. biggrin.gif The following readings were taken with LFC at its default setting of 4. I tried 1 and 7 as well and the results were as expected.

36,40 Hz -35 db

63,71 Hz -21 db

89,100 Hz -16 db

125 Hz -9 db

142.5 Hz,160 Hz -5 db

I did take reading from the other room downstairs but there really was no point because nothing above 71 Hz could be picked up by the RS meter due to the heavy attenuation. This tells me the other night whatever I was listening to did not have much low bass below 125 Hz, as I really did not perceived missing much whether LFC was on or not.
Edited by avman09 - 5/18/13 at 9:09am
post #9363 of 9615
Thanks for testing! This is exactly what an AV SCIENCE forum should be all about, instead of the typical, "My external DAC has a much better sound stage, so I use Pure Direct" sort of drivel.

It would seem LFC doesn't do anything we couldn't replicate by simply turning down the bass, mostly the low bass, ourselves. Pretty much as I predicted.
post #9364 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Thanks for testing! This is exactly what an AV SCIENCE forum should be all about, instead of the typical, "My external DAC has a much better sound stage, so I use Pure Direct" sort of drivel.

It would seem LFC doesn't do anything we couldn't replicate by simply turning down the bass, mostly the low bass, ourselves. Pretty much as I predicted.

Actually I thank you, it wasn't until you expressed your doubt that I suddely woke up and started wondering how could there be any magic other than just a more complex way of tone control. Yes your instinct turned out to be correct, it is not to say LFC not a smart and effective tool for some applications, but it is not some kind scientific breakthrough, most likely not patentable for example and for argument sake.
post #9365 of 9615
Your test has shown us what it does with a steady state signal. There is, I guess, a possibility that there is also a dynamic aspect, which, for instance, attenuates loud sharp peaks in the bass even further than what your measurements show. Who knows? Audyssey has a track record for not being entirely upfront with what exactly their technologies do: "It's like WAY better than our old gizmo, um, like 32 times better even! Instead of just taking X number of measurements we now take 32 times X number of measurements, for a grand total of a very large, impressive number called 'Y' !"tongue.gif

There was once a "magic" system, BTW, which reproduced deep bass using a weird psychoacoustic trick of generating the perception of deep tones by producing two other, higher frequency tones that had a beat frequency of the target low tone. [Aiwa or Panasonic maybe had it, I forget.] It came and went so I assume it was just a useless gizmo. I never did understand how they thought you wouldn't hear, and be annoyed by, the parent frequencies used to generate the target low frequency. Hmmm...
post #9366 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

There is, I guess, a possibility that there is also a dynamic aspect, which, for instance, attenuates loud sharp peaks in the bass even further than what your measurements show. Who knows? Audyssey has a track record for not being entirely upfront with what exactly their technologies do: "It's like WAY better than our old gizmo, um, like 32 times better even! Instead of just taking X number of measurements we now take 32 times X number of measurements, for a grand total of a very large, impressive number called 'Y' !"tongue.gif

Good point, never thought of that possibility. I was also thinking of a painfully stupid but effective way to achieve something similar. That is, change all speaker crossover to 160 Hz and turn all subs off. biggrin.gif Painful to do but if only have to do when you must watch a movie after midnight than it is at least viable.
post #9367 of 9615
AFAIK, when the sub is set to OFF, the FL/FR speakers are automatically set to LARGE so the crossover setting for those speakers would not be in effect.

Also, from the Audyssey website on LFC ....
Quote:
Once we identified the frequency range that most readily pass through walls, we developed a process not only to reduce the level at those frequencies, but also apply psychoacoustic processing that restores the perception of low bass for listeners in the room. Audyssey LFC is not a simple filter; rather, it dynamically monitors the low frequency range and engages only when it finds the offending frequencies. The result is a win-win situation for everyone. No more angry neighbors and no loss of enjoyment for listeners.
post #9368 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AFAIK, when the sub is set to OFF, the FL/FR speakers are automatically set to LARGE so the crossover setting for those speakers would not be in effect.

Yes, I am aware of that, but that's why I said turn all subs off (meaning the power switch, not via speaker configuration) the sub instead of setting it to OFF, and that it would be a painful thing to do. Audyssey and the prepro/avr have no ways of knowing the subs are actually powered off, right?
post #9369 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


Also, from the Audyssey website on LFC ....

That may be why the other night when I tried it I did not perceive a loss in bass. I thought it was mainly due to the content of the material I was watching, well that could still be part of the reason though. I should try it out again another time.

Zillch did mention there was some psychoacoustic "trick" used in the past, I guess what Audyssey is doing with LFC may have something similar in principle but probably can do a better job than whatever Zillch referred to in the past. Regardless, I do think it is a feature that I would use, albeit only very occasionally.
post #9370 of 9615
Ah ... yes, that would likely work then, although painful to be sure.
post #9371 of 9615
Although I agree neighbor complaints are due to more than just the sub frequency range bass, we now know thanks to avman09's testing [smile.gif], that the sub range is definitely where the LFC acts most aggressively:
Quote:
36,40 Hz -35 db

63,71 Hz -21 db

89,100 Hz -16 db

125 Hz -9 db

142.5 Hz,160 Hz -5 db

So simply disengaging the sub could maybe be a "poor man's" LFC control, in a rough sense, and if one found that getting up out of the Barcalounger and walking all the way over to the sub to turn it off [ especially without a beer and bag of potato chips in-hand, for the long journey}wink.gif was too much of a schlep, one could easily make it a one-touch, remote control affair, by wiring in one of these (or similar) as a temporary "sub mute/LFC" switch, simply by selecting a unused input for "mute".


P.S. Having one's sub on an instantaneous A/B switch (no "warm up" delay or volume ramping time involved) also makes demonstrating to visitors, "Here's what a sub does", about a thousand times more effective. I speak from experience; I have it in my car and use it often. New folk "get it" instantly when you give them the control and allow them to toggle it on and off, instantly, at will.
post #9372 of 9615
Does anybody know how to listen to music and watch a cable box or DVD at the same time?

I have my music going into (via analog RCA cables) the CD source... is there any way to send the signal from either the cable box or the dvd player to the screen and still keep the music going?
post #9373 of 9615
How many owners have been duped by the AB switch on the front of the AV7005? I tried to set up my unit yesterday, but when I ran Audyssey, it told me there was something wrong with my left front speaker. Come to find out, I'm only getting the center channel and the surrounds. So after an hour or so and going through menus, I give up on audyssey and put off dealing with my disabled HT. I began the internet search for information on the symptom today. Low and behold, I find mention of it in this thread. So I get home tonight, push the AB button on the front of the G#$damn unit and my speakers are suddenly there. Now I'm not going to say I didn't accidentally touch the AB button, but I didn't accidentally touch the AB button. This was a returned unit to Magnolia HiFi. The previous owner decided to upgrade to the AV8001. But I did a complete reset before installing it, so why would the unit be set to B speakers? Enough with the rant. Tomorrow, I try Audyssey again.
post #9374 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccur View Post

How many owners have been duped by the AB switch on the front of the AV7005? I tried to set up my unit yesterday, but when I ran Audyssey, it told me there was something wrong with my left front speaker. Come to find out, I'm only getting the center channel and the surrounds. So after an hour or so and going through menus, I give up on audyssey and put off dealing with my disabled HT. I began the internet search for information on the symptom today. Low and behold, I find mention of it in this thread. So I get home tonight, push the AB button on the front of the G#$damn unit and my speakers are suddenly there. Now I'm not going to say I didn't accidentally touch the AB button, but I didn't accidentally touch the AB button. This was a returned unit to Magnolia HiFi. The previous owner decided to upgrade to the AV8001. But I did a complete reset before installing it, so why would the unit be set to B speakers? Enough with the rant. Tomorrow, I try Audyssey again.

Count me in. Very frustrating.
post #9375 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Fermani View Post

Does anybody know how to listen to music and watch a cable box or DVD at the same time?

I have my music going into (via analog RCA cables) the CD source... is there any way to send the signal from either the cable box or the dvd player to the screen and still keep the music going?

Two ways to accomplish this .....

1. More common configuration with a cable/sat box: Connect the cable box HDMI directly to the TV with optical from the box to the 7005. This configuration will also mitigate any possible future HDMI handshake issues that are common with cable/sat boxes either right from the get-go or from a firmware update to the cable/sat box.

2. Connect component cables from the source to the 7005 and with the CD source playing, set the "Video Select" (p. 69 OM) setting to the component video source.
post #9376 of 9615
When using AV 7005 with Oppo 95 in bypass mode, the volume control is not working. Is that way of control the volume in bypass mode? Thanks for any advice.


Alex
post #9377 of 9615
Question on my already packed up ready to sell AV7005. Does it remember the subwoofer volume for each input? So if I set the SW volume to -2 on DVD and then went to another input and set it to +1, would the subwoofer volume stay unique to each input? Thanks.
post #9378 of 9615
No, the channel level trims of all the speakers, including the sub, don't vary by input.
post #9379 of 9615
I use Harmony Link "actions" to turn on my AV system. Using the "Watch TV" action as an example, with all components off, I select "Watch TV" and my TV the 7005 (using SAT input) and cable box turn on. For some reason, however, the sound is not Dolby Digital 5.1. The 7005 is in another mode of some kind (I forget which, but I get only 2.0 stereo) until I switch the input out of SAT and then back to SAT.

Any thoughts?

Appreciated!
post #9380 of 9615
^^ If you are using HDMI connections, the handshake could be responsible for that. Try doing the steps manually, changing the order in which you power up the components. If you find an order that produces DD 5.1 without the need to switch inputs back and forth, then change the Harmony activity to power up the devices in the order that works.

Also, take a look at the format of the source arriving from the cable box when you only get stereo. If it shows a 2.0 input, then the issue is with the output of the box, not a processing mode in the AVR. That is likely the case.
post #9381 of 9615
I just noticed that if I use the volume dial instead of the remote the volume goes erratically up and down. Sometimes it would actually go down when I turn the know clockwise and vice versa. No such issue when using the remote. Has anyone experienced the same?

Cycling power fixed it, not sure if it will come back.
Edited by avman09 - 6/13/13 at 7:26pm
post #9382 of 9615
It may just need cleaning. Here's how most modern day, multi channel volume knobs (actually encoders, either optical or electrical) can be cleaned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r-t4G1mo5Q

I can't say for sure if the Marantz is the same type, but the concept should be at least similar; a wheel with spokes is rotating over either an optical or electrical "spoke sensor" which counts how many spokes have passed over, and this info is translated to the actual chip that alters the volume.

If it were a simple optical affair, counting the spokes as the light gets blocked when each one passes over the sensor, it could be needing a very simple shot of compressed air, to dislodge the chunk of dust which is making the sensor act sporadically. Simply pulling the volume knob straight off the front, and sticking the compressed air nozzle into the exposed holes, might be all that's needed, and that takes just seconds and no screwdriver is needed!
post #9383 of 9615
Just put my AV7005 up for sale in the classifieds.
post #9384 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

Just put my AV7005 up for sale in the classifieds.

So what are you replacing it with? Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801 or something else?
post #9385 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

So what are you replacing it with? Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801 or something else?

Denon X4000
post #9386 of 9615
I've spent a few weeks now with the 7005 and I must say I'm quite satisfied (once I overcame the A-B speaker switch debacle which torpedoed my first attempt at audyssey).

I replaced a Rotel RSP-1066, a unit I had in my HT for 10 years. The only reason I swapped it out was the complexity of cabling I needed to get around the lack of HDMI. Although the Rotel served me well, with nary a hiccup, it is clearly outdated. It's still strange to load a disc, any disc, into my Oppo BP-83 and see how the 7005 adjusts based on the signal received. What a concept!

Audyssey's direct impact is in the form of increased use of my surround speakers, both with BR movies and music played in Dolby Surround Music format. Dynamic EQ does a good job of keeping my subwoofer involved even at lower volumes. I'm likin' it, and am now considering adding a second sub. The only thing holding me back is my laziness; I just don't have the energy to deal with incorporating a second sub into the set-up.
post #9387 of 9615
I know this has probably been talked about elsewhere, so perhaps someone could link me to the post.

I've run into the 7005/Emotiva/XLR/Audessey issue, where all of the settings are at -12b. I switched to RCAs and now have an unacceptable amount of noise/hiss coming through all channels (I know others have had success with RCAs, so it may just be a circumstance of my install - lots of signal cables next to power cables and no way around it). I'd prefer not to use attenuators with XLRs that have been recommended elsewhere.

Could I run Audessey with the RCAs to set the levels and then just switch to the XLRs?
post #9388 of 9615
Why not use attenuators? If you are receiving the same results using RCA, then likely no issue swapping them after running Audyssey as in both instances the settings will still be off.
post #9389 of 9615
I haven't actually run Audyssey with the RCAs yet. I'm only assuming that it will actually give properly adjusted levels. If I were to get the same results of -12 all around from the RCAs, then I'd probably just forgo Audyssey altogether as it wouldn't really be doing anything.

I'm trying to avoid using attenuators because it doesn't seem like adding another item in the signal path with be helpful for sound quality.
post #9390 of 9615
Out of curiosity, are your speakers Klipsch? What seated distance are you hearing this hiss at?

Also, don't be afraid of attenuators.
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