or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Marantz AV7005
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Marantz AV7005 - Page 317

post #9481 of 9615
Calibrating with Audyssey and then configuring the "Volume Limit" setting (page 84 in the owner's manual) would prevent people from raising the volume too high, at least. Of course, this wouldn't prevent absurdly high peaks in the source material or other input signal glitches from happening by accident.
post #9482 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Calibrating with Audyssey and then configuring the "Volume Limit" setting (page 84 in the owner's manual) would prevent people from raising the volume too high, at least. Of course, this wouldn't prevent absurdly high peaks in the source material or other input signal glitches from happening by accident.

Thank you. That's what I was looking for. Must have kept overlooking it.

MZilich good advice as well. May need to look into it.

Use case here is more protecting my equipment from some relatives who are getting on in years. It's sometimes difficult for them to realize how loud the system is and they can be a little liberal with the volume button.

Given the anticipated jump in power not certain how much margin for error I'm going to have.
post #9483 of 9615
Of course, depending on the extent of their deafness, so far as they're concerned, it isn't very loud. frown.gif

Providing their own separate headphones might be one option.
post #9484 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by russ999 View Post

...periodically my right rear speaker will start a loud high pitch sound. It stops when I recycle power to the amp. I have switched the interconnect (still happens), switched speaker wires (still happens), switched amp channels (still happens), and switched speakers (still happens).

Since this problem still happens there when you substitute in a different speaker, speaker wire, amp, or interconnect, then that means there's something about the right rear corner of your room which makes the speaker located there, or some peripheral piece of gear wired upstream from it, to emit a loud high pitch sound! :)

post #9485 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIRob View Post
 
Given the anticipated jump in power not certain how much margin for error I'm going to have.

If I understood you correctly, you are considering switching in a 225 W/ch (into 4 ohm) amp channel in substitution for the one  in the SR7005. Home Theater Magazine measured one channel, when driving two total (5/7 channels would probably not do quite as well), into 4 ohms, and wrote: "the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 200.1 watts and 1 percent distortion at 222.6 watts."

 

So what you are thinking of doing will hardly provide anything better than what you already can do.

post #9486 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

If I understood you correctly, you are considering switching in a 225 W/ch (into 4 ohm) amp channel in substitution for the one  in the SR7005. Home Theater Magazine measured one channel, when driving two total (5/7 channels would probably not do quite as well), into 4 ohms, and wrote: "the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 200.1 watts and 1 percent distortion at 222.6 watts."

So what you are thinking of doing will hardly provide anything better than what you already can do.

Sorry I probably wasn't clear.

I'm currently running an ATI 1505 rated 225 W/ch continuous into 4 ohms. Front end is an AV7005.

I'm planning to switch in an ATI 1506. Two of the same channels - but they're bridgealbe. My engineering isn't good enough to calculate the W/Ch when bridged but as I remember running two channels into 4 Ohms is similar to trying to drive a 2 Ohm speaker.

Assumed this would cause me to need to manage the power going into the speakers pretty carefully.

That said any advice here I'm all ears.....
Edited by LIRob - 10/12/13 at 11:39am
post #9487 of 9615

Oh, sorry, I got you now.

 

The 1506 is an older amp (but I've heard good things about it) so data is no longer on ATI's main site. You might have to email them asking about 4 ohm load situations when bridged.

post #9488 of 9615
Thanks. Was planning to do that. Have corresponded with a few folks who say they've done a 1506 bridged into 4 ohms.

ATI's customer service has also been very good to me over the years. Will post up if I learn anything helpful.

In the meantime just want to make sure I guard against indiscriminant use of the volume control.
post #9489 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Oh, sorry, I got you now.

The 1506 is an older amp (but I've heard good things about it)

[can't resist] Zillch... All amps sound the same!
post #9490 of 9615

I meant the ATI 1506 amp is said to have good power cube voltage measurements, if you even understand what that means without looking it up.

 

Quote:

But some people ^^^ really think everything sounds the same. I really wonder why they don't buy a $200 system at BB and listen to FM Radio all day.

I was going to ignore this earlier comment and just let it go, but now it seems you want to persistently keep harping on this topic, a dead horse, and that you are obviously just using it as flamebait :

 

Quote:
[can't resist] Zillch... All amps sound the same!

Start a new thread, instead of derailing this one. No one here cares.


Edited by m. zillch - 10/12/13 at 8:42pm
post #9491 of 9615
^^^ You keep on bringing up your same topics in all threads. "Don't bother buying a new amp", "Uncompressed sound and compressed sound sounds the same", "Don't bother with cable updates", etc.

And when someone (like me) actually shares a link with some factual information, you can only say "the author has no clue". You have a few followers that share your belief, but newsflash. The vast majority doesn't care about your nonsense.

Now let's get back to the AV7005, shall we?
post #9492 of 9615

Just a heads up reminder to anyone who, like me, bought the AV7005 within the first few months of its release. The three year mark, the end of the warranty, has now arrived, so any warranty claims for any major or minor issues must be made immediately, so as to not incur any post warranty charges.

post #9493 of 9615

^My remote stopped working well over a year ago, [no display, at all, even with brand new batteries and almost no use] but I didn't much care since I use an aftermarket universal remote. I contacted Marantz by phone yesterday and was asked for my name, address, phone, and the serial number, and then received an email asking for my proof-of-purchase. I then promptly emailed them back showing my invoice and that it was from an authorized dealer, just shy of the 3 year mark. Today I receive a phone call saying, "Sorry, the remote is beyond its warranty so it isn't covered. Call this number if you want to buy a new one ..."

 

I was dead sure they simply made a mistake, having worked in this industry for decades myself, so I went on line to track down the written warranty and unfortunately it doesn't say if the remote is covered. It does list these exceptions though:

 

"5. Accessories, including but not limited to, batteries, cables, mounting hardware and brackets, cleaning accessories, antenna and detachable power cords"

 

 That "not limited to" clause will be their defense, but its not worth my time and aggravation to contest this any further.

 

I thought I'd pass on the info, should anyone else care, or if in the future need to research this matter and see what others had encountered, since in none of the warranty documentation does it say remotes aren't covered.


Edited by m. zillch - 10/18/13 at 5:21pm
post #9494 of 9615
Yeah. Nobody reads that stuff up front, but they sure do get vocal after the fact. wink.gif
post #9495 of 9615

"The following Marantz Audio/Video components have a 3 year warranty for both Parts & Labor, from the original purchase date with the listed part exception [Remotes are not listed. - m. zillch]:

Amplifiers, Pre Amplifiers, Pre-Amplifier-Processor-Tuners, Integrated Amplifiers, Tuners, Receivers, Blu-ray DVD Players, SACD/CD Players/Changers, Learning Remote Control Devices, iPod Docks & DLP front Projectors."

 

source: Marantz US Limited Warranty

 

I guess "pre-programmed" as opposed to "learning" multi-function remotes should be considered as separate, distinct categories from eachother, since they , um....well they have different names, now don't they.;)

 

Or is it having a Preamp-processor-tuner sold in the same cardboard box that makes it not covered? Hmmm.....


Edited by m. zillch - 10/16/13 at 8:25pm
post #9496 of 9615
Question about the volume limit function.

Does anyone know if the volume limit function is absolute or relative? That is to say:

Assume I've run Audyssey and I set the volume limit on the AV 7005 at an upper limit of -20 db.

Now assume I take a tone and set the AV 7005 volume at -20 db.

If the source changes so that ordinarily my volume output would go to 0 db wil the volume output still be held to -20 db? I.e, would the volume remain flat?

Another way to think about this: Would the volume limit prevent extreme dynamic changes in the source material e.g., explosions from exceeding -20 db Reference volume? Or is it holding it at an "average" or "base" level of -20 db?

Assume it sets a ceiling but wanted to check.
post #9497 of 9615
I believe the volume limit is just a dumb limit, if you will. Simply that no matter how much you spin the volume knob it won't go past the number you've set.

If the input signal level is higher or lower than what ever the cal'd level was then the volume at "X" point will be higher or lower.

Or, put another way it's not a limiter per se, merely a max volume position setting.
post #9498 of 9615

Yes, it sets the ceiling, as LIRob puts it, uniformly. Any attempt to rotate the volume any higher than "-20 dB" [or -10 or 0, the other two options], is simply ignored. It doesn't mess with the dynamic range of the incoming signal.

 

Independent of this volume limit option is Audyssey's "dynamic volume" which does mess with the dynamic range, working as a compressor/limiter. I never use it so I can't comment on its effectiveness.


Edited by m. zillch - 10/18/13 at 5:24pm
post #9499 of 9615
Or, perhaps more simply put, it simply caps the range of adjustment.
post #9500 of 9615
Thanks. Means it's a helpful but imperfect method of limiting the current going to my speakers.

Guess I'm going to need to start researching in line fuses.
post #9501 of 9615
What's the situation you're trying to mitigate?

Yes, i assume trying to avert damage to the speakers, but in what scenario are you expecting this is a necessary cautionary measure?
post #9502 of 9615
^^^^^^


I have two things going on at once.

First I have some relatives who are getting on in years who use the system from time to time. Love them to death but their hearing isn't always a safe judge of the true volume level. Volume limiter should help with that.

Second thing has to do with my amp/speaker combination. My fronts are all 4 ohm Vienna Acoustics. I'm about to try going from an ATI 1505 - about 250 WPC into 4 ohms to a bridged ATI 1506. That would be two of those exact same channels - truly bridged. Haven't done the math but believe this means I'd be pushing about 750 Watts into a 2 Ohm load.

[Spoke with ATI this week about running bridged with 4 Ohm speakers. They had some concerns about listening at higher volumes - which I don't do - and wanted to make sure the amp was really well vented so it doesn't overheat - which it is].

That said, with all that power available seemed as if it might be smart to put in a check so I don't damage the speakers.

By the way, I'm learning by doing here. So if I have something backwards I'd sure be happy to listen to any and all advice.
Edited by LIRob - 10/18/13 at 8:08pm
post #9503 of 9615
The Volume Limit setting set to -20db is a good start as well as suggesting they use the Multi CH Stereo mode which would bring the center channel dialogue to the side surrounds and make it easier for them to hear. Yet another option would be TV Ears, especially if there are non hearing impaired listeners in the room.
post #9504 of 9615
I don't have any hard of hearing folks at my place, but I do run fairly large amps (QSC PLX 3402) on my speakers (Paradigm Studio 100) and the speaks are not rated all that high of power capacity.

The only real concern is the other folks having some sort of accident. You, on the other hand, are expected to become familiar with your system so "accidents" don't happen. wink.gif
post #9505 of 9615
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

I don't have any hard of hearing folks at my place, but I do run fairly large amps (QSC PLX 3402) on my speakers (Paradigm Studio 100) and the speaks are not rated all that high of power capacity.

The only real concern is the other folks having some sort of accident. You, on the other hand, are expected to become familiar with your system so "accidents" don't happen. wink.gif

Thanks. Uncharted waters for me but nice to hear from someone doing something close.

Now if I can only find someone to help me lift this thing into the rack. Man this sucker's heavy.
post #9506 of 9615

Warning: There's an common myth, often held by the less scientifically minded audio enthusiasts [perhaps making up even the majority of our forum's members, I suspect], especially since it is perpetuated by the audiophile magazines they read, which states [paraphrased]: "Even if two comparable amplifiers, say of the same make, are driven within their specified power limits, the stronger more powerful one (higher spec'd wattage) will sound better." This is a complete lie. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

Of course driving a weaker amplifier beyond its limits, so that it distorts on the momentary peaks, and then as one turns it up even further, allowing it to distort a good percentage of the timeis not good, and a more powerful amp may indeed "cure" that, to a small degree, over a very tiny range before it then distorts as well, however that's a different matter entirely from the myth, and it is important to keep in mind, one also needs to concern themselves with the limitations of what power the speaker can take, in the first place.

 

Often the liars will deviously attempt to invoke this side issue problem into their myth, in an attempt to add some credibility to their lie by use of this straw man argument of misdirection. A common scare tactic they use (I've seen used over and over again in my decades working in this industry) is : "Aren't you afraid you are distorting your peaks but you don't have a keen enough ear to hear it, like I do, and therefore might be slowly damaging your speakers?" Don't fall for it.

 

The origins of this myth is quite simple: It helps sell more expensive amplifiers, and in the case of an audio magazine which perpetuates this myth, it helps keep the ad money rolling in from the expensive amp manufacturers.

 

I was a Vienna Acoustics dealer for many years and think their stated power handling limits are valid and generally should be adhered to. If one found that "They don't play loudly enough for me in my situation, even when I use the most powerful amp they recommend and even when supplementing them with a beefy subwoofer to handle the hard to reproduce, low bass.", well, sorry, then they aren't the right speaker for that person.

 

On the other hand it can't hurt to have an overly powerful amp, as long as one never actually turns the volume up to invoke that extra power, one's speakers can't take in the first place, but why waste all that money on buying such amps?

 

Speakers are fairly robust, which is why they have the longest warranty of anything else in our systems, typically 5 years, however if one wants a little more protection, this article discusses some simple and very inexpensive solutions, plus the "volume limit" feature of the AV7005 could be invoked.


Edited by m. zillch - 10/19/13 at 1:03am
post #9507 of 9615
Thanks. MZ. I see that errant line of reasoning in my own work all the time. At the end of the day my bridging experiment may not help. In which case I'm left with 6 extra channels - on an amp I trust and can swap in easily should I move to less efficient speakers.

Anyway, not that this has much to do with the AV 7005 but feel I owe an explanation regarding what I'm hoping for as result of swapping in the bridged 1506. BTW, I'll be the first to admit I'm not an engineer so If I've gotten the theory wrong no pride of ownerhship here. Just enjoying the ride and the learning experience.

I really like my Mozarts. Love female vocals and very happy with overall way they present. Living in house with a couple of musicians - one of whom has an insanely good ear - we all in our overly critical way wondered if we might be able to improve things like male vocals, trombones, intricate cello work.

A couple of weeks ago I stumbled on a Sterophile review of the Mozart with some fairly detailed measurements. It showed that between 100 and 400 hz Mozrt dropped below 3 ohms.

Hence, my thought was perhaps it would benefit from more power.

My assumption was that bridging a second of the same channels I'm presently using would add more power and help at these mid-low frequencies.

Unfortunately, before I picked up the amp I wasn't aware that when a channel is bridged it cuts the load to each channel in half. Hence the result is a little less certain.

Regardless it's been an interesting and enjoyable learning experience. If it works great. System will sound even better than it did before. If it doesn't great. I've discovered Ohm's law learned a bit about how my equipment works and picked up what I still consider to be a really good value for an amp I like and trust.


So, with that said, any takers on whether bridging in this amp will be good, bad, or indifferent?
post #9508 of 9615

Bridging amps, assuming the amp can even take the load and won't overheat or shut down for other reasons, usually increases the effective maximum volume by about 3 dB. Yes, that's noticeable if you are specifically looking for it, but I'd hardly call it a startling difference in most instances. You can easily demonstrate to yourself "what does an increase of 3 dB sound like?", as I mentioned previously, by simply calibrating the AV7005 using Audyssey, [do not engage dynamic volume nor dynamic EQ for this test] and turning up the volume level by 3 dB, looking at the volume display readout to do so, while the volume is in the "relative" mode:

 

Menu>Manual Setup>Option Setup>Volume Control>Volume Display, select "Relative" [I leave mine in this mode perpetually and think it is a great way for people new to this to get a better feel for "what does 1dB, 3dB, 10dB, etc. really mean?"]

 

 

One negative of bridging amps is it generally increases the faint background hiss by about 3 dB. Again, hardly a big difference, but it could be a problem for people overly sensitive to this, small rooms, close seating distances, or super efficient speakers (such as Klipsch).

 

Are you using a good sub? Mozarts really should be used with one regardless of what type of music you use with them. The AV7005 should be set for front speakers "small" and the sub out set to "LFE", not "LFE + Main", crossover set to 80 Hz (or lower, but only if Audyssey says so). These settings may seem counterintuitive to how you think of your speakers, based on their size and specs, but trust me. I can provide further details if you need them.


Edited by m. zillch - 10/19/13 at 8:45am
post #9509 of 9615
Well so far so good. Hooked up. Bridged and running for 3 hours. No smoke. Haven't run Audyssey yet but something sounds different.

MZ: made the change to LFE only from LFE main you recommended as well.

Plan to run Audyssey tonight then see if family notices a difference. They're the ones with the really sensitive ears.
post #9510 of 9615
I own this pre amp for about a year.
Honestly it's the buggiest thing i ever owned. I'm a verification engineer and there is no way in my company we would have released a device with so many little issues.

Pandora : cannot skip songs, it randomly changes the station type from Pandora to "internet Radio" . noticed exactly the same thing with my friend Denon 3311.

Speaker adjust volume: in the menu were you adjust the individual channels, when i press UP or Down it sometimes continues by itself all the way UP ...scary.

Skip Pop sound: recently i noticed when i skip songs in Pandora or any streaming media, I hear Pop sound from the speakers. It doesnt start the new song smoothly.
it starts with pop sound. in High volume that can sound really bad.

except all the above, yeah it's a great unit with all the features and real good quality. But for $1600 retail (when i bought it), i would expect something more reined and polished.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Marantz AV7005